One thing that has me worried is the possibility that lyme is an STD. I couldnt find any serious/valid information about this topic. So I thought I'd ask you guys/gals about this. Basically We arent having sex, eventually yes, and I'll use condoms for that. But the other thing we do, well um, involves alot of oral on both parts....and she swallows. Im sorry, idk how else to say this. Now could her ingesting semen get her sick from me having lyme? Im concerned.
 

good for you for coming out and asking your question. i don't know that anyone has a proven definitive answer -- either about sexual transmission in general or swallowing semen in specific... but there has been much discussion of the general issue of sexual transmission -- you might want to do a search of previous posts, using sex and sexual as key words for thread titles. here's a link to one such thread that i remembered, where there's some discussion of oral sex i think.
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020279.html

although there isn't concrete published data yet, i'd bet almost anything it's transmitted sexually, and i know that a number of LLMD's are pretty darn sure it happens. i strongely believe that's how i contracted lyme, as well as certain other co-infections, specifically babesia and mycoplasma fermentans.

of course, there's real model for intercourse-based transmission, and i'd be inclined to think that risks with oral sex are there, but less. the questions seem to me to be similar to dealing with HIV infection and oral sex. in this case: can the spirochete survive the digestive tract? or perhaps it can find small routes of access in the mouth, abraided tissue, etc... are you abx?, and how effective it is for your strain and particular lyme infection? what are the levels of infection in your body? what is her levels of potential resistance? and perhaps mosyt importantly, how can you adjust your sex life to minimize risk without sacrificing the things which are important to you? or can you find substitutions...?

i have to say, if i were your girlfriend, i'd pass on the swallowing... but that's just me, speaking from my position as someone who may have acquired it that way.

good luck
flossie
 

Thank you very much for the info and link on this topic Flossie, My eyes are tired from reading hundreds of posts!

I definately dont want to put my lady in harms way, so we will have to stop doing....THAT, hardest part will be talking about it

Thanks again everyone!
 

YES YES YES unfortunately
 

She doesnt have any leisions or sores, but Cavitities? As in regards to her mouth and her vagina...as in an opening?

Conducting more research! These forums have SOOOOO Much to read! Maybe me starring at the monitor for hrs will kill some keets? LOL
 

DOES it?

But me on the other hand have been bitten many times at work she got it from me. If you dont believe me keep makin luv to your woman and she will get it.

Sorry heck she may already have it .
 

There are alot more people walking around with lyme than if this true.

Think of barebacking in the gay community, straight as well, they just don't name it.
What about all the one night stands, people think they got syphillus probably.

Lots of people are gonna say "Well no proof, so I am off the hook, as far as responsibilty goes.

I am greatly disturbed by this, bad enough has to get the sex live too, might as well have hiv, that's how I feel when I hear about this, hope there is a very low chance if poss.

Lymiecanuck
 

Now you understand darn scary isnt it?

And think of the other things that could possably be passed coinfections mycoplasms.
I forgot blood donations?

[This message has been edited by treepatrol (edited 10 February 2004).]
 

My children both test positive, and although they have been exposed to ticks...no bites that we know of...and, my wife the nurse suspects that they are in eutero Lyme Children.

Trout

I suspect my wife has it....so does she. But, with the Cancer...we are addressing that first.
 

Let me make a point...there...now for something completely different...

HOW DOES ANYONE KNOW THEIR WIFE OR KIDS WERE NEVER BITTEN BY A TICK?

HELLO? Anyone listening...or has anyone been gathering facts...and remembering them?

OVER HALF of Lyme Patients NEVER KNOW THEY WERE BITTEN...nor do they get a rash!!!

So...the question is: "Why are you people blaming yourselves for your spouse's/children's Lyme Disease?

I never saw the damn tick...10 years ago.
Shall I blame it on an ex who had Lyme...or didn't?

Please do not beat up yourselves for something that has NOT been proven!

I have had relationships during the past 10 years...not many as I am very sick...and NONE of them have gotten sick.

If you got bitten by a tick, don't you think it might just be possible that your loved ones got bitten as well?

Let's not all go crazy with unwarrented guilt.

It is good to care...let's care based on facts...not theories or fear.

Everyone "Out there" should be careful with sex regardless...!!!!

It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under...

Yes, I have not been here much lately...I am just too out-of-it.

Peace,love and wellness,
JRW
 

This is an abstract presented by Dr. Bach at the International Scientific Conference
on Lyme Disease, April, 2001.

RECOVERY OF LYME SPIROCHETES BY PCR IN SEMEN SAMPLES OF PREVIOUSLY
DIAGNOSED LYME DISEASE PATIENTS
Dr. Gregory Bach, Do.O., P.C. 2415 North Broad Street, Colmar, PA 18915
OBJECTIVE
Lyme disease, being a spirochete with pathology similar to syphilis, is often found
difficult to treat due to the spirochete invading sanctuary sites and displaying
pleomorphic characteristics such as a cyst (L-form). Because a significant portion of
sexually active couples present to my office with Lyme disease, with only one
partner having a history of tick exposure, the question of possible secondary
(sexual)vector of transmission for the spirochete warrents inquiriy.

Additionally,
sexually active couples seem to have a marked propensity for antibiotic failure
raising the question of sexually active couples re-infecting themselves through
intimate contact.

METHODS: Lyme spirochetes/DNA have been recovered from stored animal
semen. Recovery of spirochete DNA from nursing mother's breast milk and unbilical
cord blood by PCR (confirmed by culture/microscopy), have been found in samples
provided to my office.

RESULTS: Suprisingly, initial laboratory testing of semen samples provided by
male Lyme patients (positive by western blot/PCR in blood) and the male sexual
partner of a Lyme infected female patient were positive approximately 40% of the
time. PCR recovery of Lyme DNA nucleotide sequences with microscopic
confirmation of semen samples yielded positive results in 14/32 Lyme patients (13
male semen samples and 1 vaginal pap).

ALL positive semen/vaginal samples in
patients with known sexual partners resulted in positive Lyme titers/PCR in their
sexual partners. 3/4 positive semen patients had no or unknown sexual partners to
be tested. These preliminary findings warrent futher study. Current a statistical
design study to evaluate the possibility of sexual transition of the spirochete is
being undertaken.

Our laboratory studies confirm the existence of Lyme spirochetes
in semen/vaginal secretions. Whether or not further clinical studies with a larger
statistical group will support the hypothesis of sexual transmission remains to be
seen. A retrospective clinical study is also underway.

We are reviewing the medical
records, collecting semen samples of patients who were previously diagnosed with
current and previously treated Lyme disease are bing asked to provide semen,pap
and blood samples for extensive laboratory testing.

CONCLUSION: With the initially impressive data, we feel the subsequent
statistical sudy on the sexual transmission of the Lyme spirochete will illuminate a
much broader sectrum of public health concerns associated with the disease than
the originally accepted tick borne vector.

Sexual transmission..

[This message has been edited by treepatrol (edited 10 February 2004).]
 

We had the sound clip on www.wildernetwork.org.

Dr. S. also presented the human to human transmission at the ILADS meeting in Nov. 2003.

Treepatrol was right. This is an epidemic.

Karen-OH
 

------------------
Lyme Disease Help
http://www.wildcondor.com
 

You first should know this is 2004...that so-called study was done in 2001. Where is the follow-up studies? Where is the confirmation by reputable research scientists?

Second...just because one has SUPPOSEDLY found the bacteria in sperm of vaginal fluid DOES NOT mean it (the bacteria) is present in sufficient quantities to produce an infection in another person (host.)

There are instances where people with HIV have had sex and not transmitted the disease to a partner (OBVIOUSLY not recommended!)

Simply because your wife does not attract mosquitos has absolutely NOTHING to do with ticks, nor does it prove she has NOT been bitten. How do you know FOR SURE???

How does this situation differ from those people who never see a tick nor a rash but exhibit a clinical symptomology for Lyme Disease? By your logic, they, like your wife
got Lyme from sexual transmission ONLY?

Sorry...no go.

The internet is full of misinformation. Be careful. Trust your LLMD's...if that is what they really are.

I just went to my LLMD today, who is in the top group in the country, and who is conducting a study on Chronic Lyme. I asked him about sexual transmission as well as mercury and his response was not what you would want to hear.

We must stop confusing one time so-called studies with real reasearch that can be replicated by others...theories based on partial facts do not prove anything.

The good doctor could have easily seen other types of spirochetes in the semen...we have them in our bodies...for instance H-Pylori, that when held in check do not cause problems. The typical MD is NOT qualified to discern between one type of spirochete and another. In addition, the buggers change shape (morph) into forms that are displayed in other species. It takes more than a simple microscope to know the difference. Even PCR testing only tests a small portion on the DNA...that is why many doctors do not value such a test.

I understand you care about your wife...and I am glad you do. The thing now is to get better...both of you.

PS...I am NOT out there getting some. My bent was never casual sex anyway. Hell, I feel so lousy that A Victoria's Secret model would have no effect...pretty sad huh?

I can barely get OUT of bed...much less IN bed with anyone...except my cat...no jokes...

Peace,love and wellness,
JRW
 

I've been searching as this was a point that a non LLMD brought up --specifically that it was impossible to tranmit through breastmilk. That, sure, there's DNA pieces, but not live keets.

I'm not disagreeing with reports of finding keets or keet DNA. But are we speaking of keets that have *survived* existence in these various environments?

 

the transmission doesn't occur because you HAVE sex...

not everyone that has unprotected sex with an HIV partner will get HIV>ditto lyme.
Would you be frightened to be bled on... I mean on your intact skin by a lyme patient... NO... your skin keeps it out..... it is a defense mechanism.

Now... if you have sex ... same deal... closed circuit UNLESS>>>> there is a way to get in.... IE: BLOOD EXCHANGE>ie spirochete is able to enter body and attach to blood cells.

if an hiv patient bled on your arm and you had no open wounds there would be maybe a like .0001% chance of getting HIV because it never hooked up with the cells it targets to invade the body...

sooooooo again... if you have sores, cavitites, lesions, cracks etc... yes you are opening yourself up so to speak...

but if you are "normal"intact functioning immune system, no skin defects ( and this is really the kicker... how many times do you actually know your defense if totally** intact )....perfect mucous membranes... you should not get anything....( wouldn't everyone in the world have something if it worked any other way?>???)

ok ya'll.... we walk around in an infected world.... think about it. Do not panic. You have to let the bug in to get it.
If I came over and bled on your mama's arm today ... she wouldn't get lyme. I promise... if her skin is intact ( functioning barrier)... same with sex in any form.....
 

I've known too many couples, one has longterm tbe, the other is fine.

Yet there is flossie's story--pretty weird--then again she did find a tick crawling on her in the doc's office so who knows about other ticks in the past.

I guess it's a lot of if-thens: if there are lyme spirochetes in semen, and if they are transmissible (not destroyed by the pH of the vagina) then they probably need microabrasions to get into the blood system, thus vigorous intercourse without enough lubrication; or anal intercourse. But if anyone is worried just use a condom with nonoxynol 9 which is germicidal. You'll not only prevent your worries you'll stop transmission of HPV which causes cervical cancer, chlamydia which causes infertility, and candida which can be a mess. All these are fairly silent in men but cause women a lot of problems. So use a condom, especially ifone partner is dealing with lyme which taxes the body.
 

My wife was aware of this and was allways making me check her even though she was never near where I worked just incase I brought something home hitch hiking.Every little mark I have inves tick gated.

And as far as Iam concerned you have a attitude or at the least expression problems if you dont believe thats your right.

I will not banter with you anymore JR

I know in my heart that I gave it to her.
If I new then what I know now there would have been a rubber on me 24/7.
As far as me knowing what year it is 2004 no kidding I guess we should throw away all the research before this year.

PS I drove over 45 to50 mins everyday to this epidemic area to work she did not and where we lived it wasnt a high area for ticks and iam not saying you cant have sex and get away with it what Iam saying is russin roulet .

Dr. Eli Mordechai Listen to this if there's doubt??
At MDLAB http://www.lymediseaseaudio.com/mdl.htm

Sorry about this Repeat keep a open mind and check everything out for yourself

One more oh but this ones old to guess throw it away too.

Spring Brings Tick Threat to Peace Enforcers JAMA, May15,1996, Medical News &
Perspective

Comments from Website author: JAMA writes here of a caution for troops in
Bosnia-Herzegovina (which I believe also extends to the Mid-East region) that tick-borne
disease is a danger. They caution that the same risks are additionally associated with
mosquitoes, sand flies, fleas, mites, biting flies, and lice. "Desert Storm
Syndrome" parallels one characteristic of Lyme in that this spirochetal
infection also can be sexually transmitted to spouse.

[This message has been edited by treepatrol (edited 11 February 2004).]
 

dq

[This message has been edited by DiffyQue (edited 12 February 2004).]
 

Its been cultured in semen, vaginal fluid, etc but as someone else said- is that enough to infect someone else? Again, who knows?

I know I wouldnt wanna be a guinea pig to find out! Here- lay here while we squirt this in ya! Hello? LOL

but, in any case use protection! You can find the healthiest looking person and they could still be harboring a zillion little critters, even if they feel FINE!

As an HIV/AIDS prevention and testing counselor volunteer I would recommend that sexual partners be tested for HIV before having intercourse as well any possible STD's before having unprotected intercourse if there is any risk.

As far as Lyme being sexually transmitted, I have inquired at training sessions based on CDC information and no one that I have spoken with has ever heard of any reliable information but I have been told that it is not considered to be sexually transmitted.

The skin is a very protective barrier and sexually transission orally of HIV is virtually impossible because of the antibodies in your mouth and the digestive enzymes in your stomach (which would be the same with Lyme because it is in the blood and needs a direct route into the bloodstream). Clamydia and Gonnorhea of the throat can be orally transmitted as well as the herpes, syphillis and HPV (warts). Sorry to be gross. This is what I was told during my most recent training last June.

By the way, my husband does not have Lyme nor does the other partner in which I had unprotected sex for almost a year after I had contracted it.

I'm not saying that it's not possible through intercouse but highly unlikely orally. I think personally think that we don't have enough information yet.

I'm not a doctor though so perhaps you should ask your LLMD or go to the CDC website.

 

The alcohol would make me manic-depessive.
I would get really high and then at the end of the night I would cry and feel so alone.

Id wake up and pop some ephedrine and try to get motivatied to find a job when my brain was full of cotton..

its a tuff tuff life..

and they say that I was a genius in colledge,
probabblly from all the PIRACETAM,, that turned me into a near einstein for a litte while.

and no,, still no libido..

I let the movies take care of that in my teens after I would wake up then go back to sleep and dream of a nice girl.

truth
 

Lymiecanuck
 

------------------
cheers,
AG