LymeNet Flash: What else to do for massive anxiety!! Herx related?

This is topic What else to do for massive anxiety!! Herx related? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by jets10 on :

Hi everyone, I've had neuro lyme in '97. My symptoms then were disconnect, brain fog, joint aches etc.. went on abx for a year, got through until about a year ago where symptoms started. Now my biggest symptom is horrible morning anxiety, it gets so bad, I throw up from nerves every morning. It seems to get better around noon. I've been on 1000mg biaxin and 20 mg paxil for about a month. The 1st 2 weeks i felt a ton better, but the past week has been awful. Is all from 5:30am till about 11 am. Is this telling me the biaxins not working, or is it a herx?? Should i take more paxil? Is this other peoples main horrible symptom? I can live with the twitching, aches, etc. but this is killing me!!Any other ideas would be appreciated!!

Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :

Are you taking enough acidophils?
Dont let this disease work you up stay calm focus try not to let your mind run away with you.Dont drink coffie or any caffiene pop it just helps to crank your mind and body up. Try to stay calm and take big deep breaths.

You abx is probably still working but you have to keep from throwing them up.
Could be part of herx you need to talk to your LLMD.

Posted by MarieElaine (Member # 5408) on :

You might ask your LLMD if he thinks Amitriptyline (prescription) will help your anxieties. It seems to help with my daughter.

It comes in 10 mg tablets so you can take one or two and if needed take another one or two.

Our LLMD originally prescribed it to help her sleep and we found it also helps with anxiety.

Good luck to you.

Marie

Posted by TX Lyme Mom (Member # 3162) on :

What our LLMD told us when our daughter hit her first "Lyme rage" Herx was that the abx were hitting the "limbic center" of the brain. He said to stop the abx for a day or two and then to start back at a lower dosage and build up more gradually.

Her Lyme rage was "uncontrollable" and frightening. I'm not talking here about "Lyme irritability", which is quite common. I'm talking about Lyme RAGE.

Next, I looked up doxycycline in the Nursing Drug Handbook and observed that it's contraindicated for neurosyphilis. No explanation given, but I could only imagine why. Afterall, neuroborreliosis is very similar to neurosyphilis.

Now, with the anxiety stuff, what has worked for one of our local patients is to measure the urinary pH with pH paper, sold in health food stores. I'll bet that it's very acidic. What this patient does is to take lots of "buffers" (magnesium, bicarbonate of soda, etc.) to try to counteract the acid-alkaline imbalance. It generally works nicely to calm things down again.

Why all this happens is a matter of conjecture. I suspect it has something to do with the HPA (hypothalmic-pitituitary-adrenal) axis and the over-production or dysregulation of cortisol. Everything else follows in a cascade effect, leading to the acid-alkaline imbalance. That's why loading up on "buffers" seems to help so much.

The slow, meditative breathing techniques work also. This is counterintuitive, so please bear with me here for a minute. Here's what I learned about the physiology of meditative breathing, as practiced by the Hindu yoga masters, from a newspaper article while we were visiting in India. A British physiologist had come to India to try to figure out why the Hindu yogis had such a much lower rate of heart attacks and cardiac problems.

What the newspaper article stated was the "slow breathing" helps to build up CO2, which dissolves into carbonic acid in the blood stream, thereby lowering the pH of the blood and allowing magnesium to get into the cells properly, instead of leaking out of the cells. Magnesium aids muscle relaxation.

This is counter-intuitive, unless one realizes that the urinary pH tends to run opposite from the blood pH, because the urine is getting rid of excess wastes from metabolic processes. Thus, adding buffers and "slow breathing" (meditative, Yoga-style) both help to control these frequent episodes of anxiety and panic attacks.

There's a book that explains all of this very simply, "Breathing Free" by Somebody Hale. It's sold in health food stores and was written for asthmatics, but the same physiologic principles also apply to anyone whose family has a history of cardiac disease, too. Likewise, I think that anyone who suffers from anxiety and panic disorder would benefit from the book as well.

I'm pretty sure that the HPA axis stuff is caused by "cerebral hypoperfusion" (reduced blood flow) to that area deep inside the brain and that it is the result of Bb. However, knowing how to cope with this kind of annoying problem is even more important than trying to understand its cause. (If you like I can post an abstract about the cerebral hypoperfusion, but I don't want to overload you with extraneous information, so I will refrain from doing so.)

Posted by Rita on :

Valium the day before works for the morning after.

Posted by manzanita (Member # 5522) on :

I found that the supplement Seriphos made by InterPlexus, Inc. works wonders for me with the non-specific anxiety. It stabliizes the brain in some way so that it doesn't send unnecessary messages to the adrenals to produce cortisol. It makes the brain less twitchy. I take about 4 capsules at night and 1 or2 during the day. it builds up in your system over time so you don't need so much, but is i stop taking it the cortisol levels and anxiety go back up.I do have lyme though. I might not need this product at all if i didn't have lyme

Posted by noodlydoo (Member # 3273) on :

www.anxietybusters.com

I have no affiliation, but use the program.

noodlydoo

Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :

checking...more in a minute

ok. i'm getting here late but i have had the exact symptom for a long time and thought i should answer. i keep it under control with low doses of visteril(20 or 25 mg). i never take more than 2 pills before bed. often only 1. and sometimes i go thru periods of time when i don't need them. if i'm doing good, able to exercise or do enought during the day so i'm tired enough to get to sleep easily, i tend to skip the visteril. usually within a week or so the anxiety comes back. almost always in the early morning. sometimes i shake so much-the bed shakes. now that i know i just have to take the vist it's easier to stay calm. if i run out of it the anx gets worse and can last into the day. its an old drug with not too many side effects at this dose, i think. they give huge doses to people with severe anx(my mom). i think its really an antihistimine. good luck.

[This message has been edited by lpkayak (edited 25 April 2004).]

Posted by DawnE (Member # 3155) on :

Another vote here for amitryptaline(elavil). It worked wonders for my anxiety. If not that try another drug, obviously the paxil is not doing it for you. Just be careful going off of it. What works well for some, doesn't for others. I truly sympathise with you, that was the only symptom that I could not live with either.

Feel Better,
DawnE

Posted by once bitten on :

I have had a couple of real doozers lately, both times connected with exposure to loud machinery, once on the ferry, as we docked and I suddenly didn't know how the ramp was going to let me down, and I am in my CAR!!! I freaked, and got out, my dtr too. It was horrible.
Then a couple of days ago, stuck near a truck with a diesle pump of some type, an air pressure thingy, well he was burning off water in the fuel line or something but I thought it was going to explode...I lost it.
And if you read the insert for bicillin, this can be a side effect.
Well, panic disorder is what I am on disabilty for, and agoraphobia. It is better now, I use to have exactly what you are describing...oh man...horrid. really, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. IT sucks.
Breathing works, if you can remember. I will have to check out that book.
Panic is the worst. For people who have never had a panic attack, may you never know.

Posted by once bitten on :

Hey Manznia (ooops I forgot that name already..) anyway ..whats in the plexis stuff...???

Posted by WildCondor on :

When you are having this bad of a neuro herx, ask your LLMD for some xanax, and take a small dose when you need it.

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Lyme Disease Help
http://www.wildcondor.com

Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :

Nobody mentioned [did they?] that PAXIL could be CAUSING the anxiety itself! Talk to your dr about it!

My husband takes a product called "Nerve Blend" by Solaray. You can find it at any quality health food store. [or online] Works for him!

The herxing definitely can cause the anxiety as well.

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oops!
Lymetutu

Posted by JillF (Member # 5553) on :

I've gone through 5 or 6 different anti-depressant/anti-anxiety drugs.

I never felt like I had anxiety problems but I figured that my doctors knew best.

All gave me terrible side effects.

Most made me anxious and paranoid and I cam close to having panic attacks.

I have never felt so bad before. I've never felt so panicked.

I was never as upset, stressed, anxious or nervous off the drugs as I was ON them!

So, yes, I would make sure that Paxil is not causing you to be more anxious on it than off it.

Posted by Lonestartick (Member # 2151) on :

Hi Lymetoo,

If there is a prize for getting to the heart of the problem, my money is on your response.

Jets, for what it's worth, you might listen to Lymetoo and discuss this with your doc. Paxil is an "activating" SSRI type antidepressent and it can cause the symptoms you are describing.

Personally, I couldn't tolerate any of the SSRI class of drugs for the very reasons Jets is describing.

Someone suggested Elavil which has been discontinued, but it's generic form "Amitriptyline" is widely available. It is inexpensive and very good.

Elavil (Amitriptyline) is a tricyclic antidepressant and those are generally considered older and safer than some of the more modern antidepressants on the market these days.

While one should not come off Elavil quickly, it does not have the high risk of addiction that paxil and others do. (I was on Elavil for over a year and it took me 2 weeks to discontinue it without any discomfort.)

Even though you've only been on the paxil a month, you will probably need to be weened off of it carefully with your doctors help.

The plus side is that, if you do indeed need an antidepressant, Elavil (Amitriptyline) will help you to get the deep, restorative sleep you need at night so that you will be able to wake up feeling rested.

Research documents stage-4 restorative sleep as being very helpful in dealing with chronic pain. Unfortunately, most Lymies have a difficult time getting stage-4 sleep.

When dealing with my own anxiety attacks, I've always found it very helpful to take a magnesium capsule and hold it under my tongue. I found a magnesium product that a naturopath suggested and it comes in a capsule.

I break the magnesium capsule open and pour the contents under my tongue and let it dissolve. This method has proven almost as effective as the magnesium IM injections that I used to receive in my Chronic Fatigue doctor's office. It really helps me relax, especially when I have heart palpitations.

While Klonopin can help short term, it considered very addictive and I've known people who have had serious problems with it. For that reason, I try to use the natural remedies that work for me, such as b-12 shots, sublingual B total, magnesium.

My old Chronic Fatigue Immunologists helped me to realize that whenever I was having a great deal of anxiety or anger I could almost always test my urine pH and find it was acidic. Once I learned to keep that in range, those symptoms virtually disappeared - even when I was hitting a heavy Herx. (I think others here have posted more about that in older topics.)

Even now that I'm enjoying the best health I've had in years, if I allow myself to get acidic, I experience problems. When I pH balance, my mind and body function so much better.

quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Nobody mentioned [did they?] that PAXIL could be CAUSING the anxiety itself! Talk to your dr about it!
My husband takes a product called "Nerve Blend" by Solaray. You can find it at any quality health food store. [or online] Works for him!
The herxing definitely can cause the anxiety as well.

Posted by AmandaPI (Member # 5587) on :

One suggegtion would be to speak to your LLMD about low doses of the antipsychotic, Seroquel (25 mg)prn for anxiety. It can be quite helpful when other meds are not.

Posted by shadow13 (Member # 1467) on :

Jets10 - I'm sorry I didn't get on here sooner as this is one of my main problems 24/7. My grandmother has a terrible reaction to Paxil ... she became so much more anxious. Valium is not good for long-term. Xanax is good, but I've found a new drug through my shrink. Instead of Paxil, I take Effexor-XR and instead of Xanax, I take Klonopin. That combination has kept me from crawling out of my skin ... I even forget about the panic attacks for a little while which is good as I was so obsessed with the fear that one would start at any minute ... I was setting myself up for them by thinking about them so much.

Please let us know how you make out, OK? Did you call your LLMD? Do you like to read ... that takes my mind off things for a little while ... an escape. Take good care of YOU and please let us know how you are.

Deb

Posted by jets10 on :

Thanks so much for the support. This site is really awesome. Well , I talked to my LLMD and he told me to take 2 paxil, one in morning, and one at night. I really didn't want to do it, but it really has helped. I also bought magnesium tabs, like many of you said, and that seems to help also. So i'm hanging in there, doing my biaxin. The mornings have been much better. I can actually function, and partially enjoy myself. I tell you, the anxiety porblem is god awful. I would rather have my arm cut off than to deal with that. The weird thing is, I've always been the calmest, most confident person out there in my 35 years. The anxiety and depression pulls you down to your knees. It makes every second of every day horrible. I don't wish it on my worst enemy!! Thanks again, everyone!!