The ER said it was Atypical renal colic? Gave me a shot of demerol and sent me home to a very uncomfortable weekend.

Well, ends up I have a hole in my lung (left side, not the picc side)and over 2 days it grew to a significantly larger size and the lung is collapsing. So, the theory of kidney stones was *so* wrong. "Sent" had those, but not this cowgirl.

However, I think pain is probably comparable.

I was searching for a mexican link to find dilaudid! Now that is a desperate measure!

I am wondering how on earth a pneumothorax could be related to lyme or bart? Does the bacteria break down the lining of the lungs? Pleura?
It's the most bizarre thing. The docs said this is not related at all to my picc and they did not think an embolism had been thrown.

Second question; has anyone ever had a similar experience??What goes on? What will happen now? I'd really like to know if there could be a bacterial relationship. No trauma/flu/cough/illness of any other kind other than the typical lyme symptoms neuro/cfs/nerve pain.

No forewarning of lung problems ever.

Tks again!!!!

Sleepy

Ive had a pain in rear right side 2 rib up for years then it quit.
 

Carryon
 

Was surprised when read your post. I also had a collapsed lung with 2 holes in left lung. This happened about 14 years ago, just seems like yesterday that it happened.

I was in hospital for a partial hysterectomy, everything was going well after 5 days from date of surgery, when boom terrible pain, and of course nurses didn't believe me, said I was looking for attention. After xray found 2 holes in left lung, put me on some kind of drugs, kept me in hospital for a week. What are docs doing for you? They were never able to tell me what caused it, just told to stay away from air conditioning, especially in malls and not to fly.

Knowing what I now know about lyme and about how long I think I have had it, I feel sure it's related to lyme. What upsets me is when docs don't believe you. Is there anyway possible that the picc line could have done this. I know nothing about picc lines.

I hope you are feeling better and can get to the bottom of this. Take care,

Corinne
 

I will find out this afternoon when I see the specialist (who is also my infectious disease doc) what the plan is & why this happened & if there is a bacterial relationship.

I wondered too about the correlation to lyme. That's why I put out this post to see if others had heard of such a thing.

What I found very frustrating was that, I too got the impression they felt I was drug seeking when I went in to emerg. although I have only ever once in my life gone to emerg before and that was after a serious cycling accident. I have never ever been to emerg otherwise for anything. The doctor actually said to me I didn't *look* that bad and was going to send me home without anything for pain - but I begged! How humiliating.

Also, because it's a small hospital, I doubt there was a radiologist on staff because he just looked at the xray and said there was nothing there. But the written report on Monday mentions the hole for the first time.

Will let you know. Tks for your reply.
How are you now? Do you notice anything with your breathing?

Sue

I truly hope you get the treatment you need and can't immagine what would cause a hole in your lung.

But that being said, I am so glad my stone passed BEFORE I read this!! I truly have no confidencince in the ducks at the hospital I went to and the thought of a hole in my lung would have been eating at my mind till it did.

I would have been pacing and cussing them incompentent morons.....well you can immagine...

I was given IV morphene my pain was so bad and percocets when I got home.

I will say a prayer for you I truly don't think the rocephin would cause lung dammage actually it is the drug of choice for upper respitory infections. It is hard on gall bladders.

Keep us posted

James
 

Sleepy!

However, there was some interesting stuff about Erlichia and lungs. Here it is.

Lyme Disease

Human granulocytic ehrlichiosis (HGE), may infect young white blood cells in the bone marrow, which are then released into general circulation. Infected white blood cells can affect in the spleen, liver, lymph nodes, bone marrow, lung, kidney, and cerebrospinal fluid.

And from Pub Med:
Comparative pathology, and immunohistology associated with clinical illness after Ehrlichia phagocytophila-group infections.

Lepidi H, Bunnell JE, Martin ME, Madigan JE, Stuen S, Dumler JS.

Department of Pathology, The Johns Hopkins Medical University School of Medicine, Baltimore, Maryland 21287, USA.

The Ehrlichia phagocytophila-group also includes E. equi and the human granulocytic ehrlichiosis (HGE) agent that are probably a single species. Disease is mild to severe illness in ruminants, horses, and humans, but the comparative pathology and ehrlichial distribution in tissues is poorly described. We compared pathology and ehrlichial distribution in humans with HGE, horses with E. equi infection, and a sheep with E. phagocytophila infection. Frequent findings included splenic lymphoid depletion, small macrophage aggregates and apoptoses in liver, and paracortical hyperplasia in lymph nodes. Bone marrow was normocellular or hypercellular. Only the spleen was frequently infected; other organs with infected cells included lung, liver, heart, and kidney, but lesions were present in lung and liver only. Most infected cells were neutrophils. Ehrlichia phagocytophila-group infections are associated with moderate tissue damage. While the pathogenesis of granulocytic ehrlichiosis is not clear, pathologic studies suggest that the process is initiated by ehrlichia-infected cells but may result from host-mediated injury and immunosuppression.

Publication Types:
Case Reports

PMID: 10761721 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's probably more, but the server is acting up and I'm going to post this before I get flipped back to the Lymenet home page again!

I am wondering, almost, if that this is not a result of a reaction to the rocephin? I looked up "causes of pleurisy" on google and the first hit said that lupus symptoms can be triggered by various antibiotics - which can, in turn cause a pleural effusion. Now, I don't have lupus, and the rocephin wasn't listed, but it is an antibiotic?? Bizarre if it is a die off. I wonder what the difference is in viral/bacterial reaction?
Lots to think about. I wonder if the others who did have pain also had a pleural effusion and didn't get it picked up on the xray?
 

This sort of resonated with something a surgeon I saw told me.

I went to see him for his opinion on a picc line or a port for me. He said he would not do a port because I was too thin and didn't have any padding probably between heart and lung.

He would not risk a collapsed lung which could happen in my case-I repeat in my case.

He also laughed me out of the door and made grumpy faces when I told him the problem was Lyme.

No way you could have Lyme and those co-infections, he stupidly said. Unless, of course, you picked it up in Connecticut.

Swear-wish I'd had some Anthrax to leave behind.

Hope you are doing much better.

Chocolat
 

Either way I am sorry you are in pain, I am glad you don't have a hole in you lung, that would be much worse than pluracy, though no less painful I would immagine.

I wish I could be more helpful and say things that would bring you relif, but saying "breath less" will not help will it??

So all I can send is warm love and prayers your direction.

May all His best be yours

James
 

Now what I was told by my doc at that time was that I had pleurisy. The nurse assigned to me when pain started and for next 4 days told me that it wasn't pleurisy, she showed me the xrays where there were 2 blotches (holes) in my lung. It's strange, I wasn't put on abx, only blood thinner because I had had a blood clot in left leg 11 years before. I have also had pleurisy many times since I was 3 years old. So I know the symptoms of pleurasy. If pleurisy, why no abx? It was all very strange and hushed up. Reason for not going to mall was b/c of air conditioning. Apparently air cond might have caused the lung to collapse again.

I do know that the last time I flew to Ottawa in early 2000, I was in bed with the worst cough and headache, no abx or medicine would help. Body felt on fire, strangest flu I ever had. Anyways I arrived in morning, found a teeny teeny, looked like a spider embedded in my right calf (used a magnifying glass to make out spider), picked it out with tweezers and woke up in the morning with deadliest symptoms, sick for a week and then all symptoms stopped, just like that.

It was after that that my symptoms, or at least more and more symptoms surfaced and increased to where I am today. I was bit twice more in the meantime.

I did have pericarditis 3 times last year, worst palpitations. Now only get rarely. I'm just wondering why they would say first a hole in lung, then change to pleurisy. My opinion, they don't really know.

I have flown twice since that incidence and both times wasn't sick at the time, but about 2 weeks later came down with flu like symptoms. So....? As for hiking again, I believe you will be able to. As for air conditioning, I cannot work in offices or stay long in malls, not so much I believe b/c of air cond but b/c of mold, etc. In most places, vents are not cleaned often enough or properly. I know at my school, they bypassed cleaning the vents to save money down to every 2 years and the majority of students and professors came down with some very strange flues.

I think in time with abx, vit and supps, you will get better. Pain from pleurisy or collapsed lung in unbelievable and scary. How are they treating the pleurisy? Let us know how you are doing.

Take care,

Corinne
 

I did a search last night on pleurisy and lyme and was amazed at how much information there is about the two conditions being related.

This again, sort of confirmed to me that this could be herx related.

For the others querying co-infections, I had been tested for the co-infections (erlichia & babs) and they were negative, but the bartonella was positive (in December) at the same time my WB was positive for lyme.

What a scary thing to go through though. It seems to be on the mend now. Thank you *all* for stepping in to help, or encourage and give me your experiences. For those of us who are alone in this struggle(and I'm sure for those who aren't as well!), lymenet has been a wonderful way to feel a connection to others who are going through the same thing. I can't believe how many times I will just look in to see what is happening on lymenet and someone will be there having a similar problem as I am that night. And there are great people who will share their knowledge and stories. A good place to be at a time like this (for all of us)!

Whew!

(Breathlessly..)Sleepy!

That September I started having chest pains and difficulty breathing, I had waited a few days to see if it would stop but it only got worse. I was rushed to the hospital to find my right lung was 80% collapsed, doc said another day and I would have lost it.

While spending some time in the hospital I had to ask my family doctor for a follow up test for LD, it came back negitive and he told me I was cured. Why my lung collapsed didn`t seem to be an issue with the doctors.

I never suspected tick borne as a culprit until I had my first major relapse 8 months later, and it was much later when I found out I had Babesiosis and much, much later when I tested positive for Ehrilichiosis.

Not to many knew of these co-infections back then, so who knows. They say tick borne can effect every organ in your body, well why not the lungs. At that time I was only 35 years old and never had any lung problems before. I have questioned quite a few LLD`s about what happened and never got a straight answer.

After having my lung blown back up like a balloon I never had any other problems with it since then, Lyme is a different story.
Maybe someday with some research we will find an answer why, till then I wish you well. POP

Soo...1 day's relief from that (I can almost take a deep breath) and today I was back in emerg the entire day with a fever of over 102 and a major rash (to blistering) all over my body. I looked like a little kid with a baaad case of measles. Being the long weekend here, there are no ID docs on call and so after some discussion with other specialists, the emerg doc told me to stop the IV treatment until Tuesday and to get in to see my id doc asap.
It's been a rocky 11 days for me and there are five weeks of this to go before I move to orals. Holy msoley!

What's a girl to do!

Sleepy

I just got the same rash as a herx too all over my back and neck, illl yuck!!

Thank God this last round of herxing is just about ending for me. Sorry to hear you are having it so rough. Glad you are able to breath though, it is a habbit I picked up as a child too, never could quit

Hope your fever breaks soon.

Sent
 

this has happened to my husband twice, and this is why. Nothing to do with smoking or anything. Just thought I'd share that.

Lymiecanuck
 

Sent, this rash was really bad, like my face is going to loose skin. It felt like I was being cooked from the bone marrow out. I wonder if there is a correlation (if you do an image search on google for macular rash, that one girl's face is pretty close to what I had). I was totally on fire. Rash went all the way to my ankles. Covered entire body except hands and feet (tops & bottoms). It's less today! Whew.

LLMD emailed me and said to stop all antibiotics as well and just wait till I see ID doc. Perhaps there are other IV antibiotics out there i can take with less side effects. I'll start a new post & ask for some suggestions. Take care, Sue

Sweetums says he hopes you begin to feel:

Sent
 

It just occurred to me that it's not every day people can talk about their "rashes" just out in the open and think nothing of it!!!!!!

We *are* a strange brew aren't we.

I don't think anyone really understands what we go through except for those who are in the same box.

It's a very intense place to be. It's nice to be able to lighten up once in a while.

I *so much* appreciate the support.

Sleepy - and yes......I did end up having a great day planting flowers! Finally!

EXUDATIVE EFFUSIONS: This type has more to do with infection and or inflammation of the blood vessel walls or the pleural membrane itself. When inflammation occurs these membranes become more leaky, allowing proteins, inflammatory cells (and chemical attractants for these cells) into the pleural space. This increase in cells in turn osmotically "PULLS" the plasma fluid out of the blood vessels and into the pleural space.

Either way, there maybe should have been a needle stuck into the lung and a collection of this fluid obtained to determine which of the two types it was. This way they might have been able to explore the cause a little easier.

Of course if this has spontaneously resolved there's perhaps no need to explore it further with invasive techniques such as needles into the lung. It's probably a difficult procedure at a small community hospital. I don't know about that kind of thing.

If there are no other signs of heart, kidney, or liver involvement (CBC, Basic metabolic panel, liver function tests, etc.) it probably was from inflammation/infection and could possibly just happen again if not kept in check.

Hope all remains ok, but if it occurs again ask about the things I've mentioned.
 

Thank you for that very thorough explanation. Wow!

Sleepy!
 

Reducing inflammation helped the rash, but recieved no other treatment.

Hope it clears soon.
Good Luck
Lymiecanuck

[This message has been edited by lymiecanuck (edited 27 May 2004).]