LymeNet Flash: Anyone out there NOT have a herx???

This is topic Anyone out there NOT have a herx??? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by EllenB (Member # 5764) on :

Hi all,
I'm still so new to this and have a ton of questions.

I have been on Doxy for almost a week now (600 mg a day). I haven't had a herx that I Know of. I felt really bad before taking it and I never got to a point where I felt any worse - I may even feel a little better. Could this mean I don't have lyme? Are there others out there who didn't herx? What does this mean?

I've probably had lyme for up to 10 years - would this make any difference?

I would love some input, as I am without an LLMD.

Thank you,
Ellen
More questions to follow, I'm sure!!...

Posted by cootiegirl (Member # 3216) on :

Hi Ellen,
Welcome to Lymenet. I'm kind of one of the resident lymies around here that hasn't had a herx, until last week.

I've been in treatment for almost three years. During that time, I was treated for babesia and bartonella. Now the treatment is focusing on the lyme. During the entire process, I handled the meds well. Doxy was probably the harshest on me, but I made sure I drank plenty of liquids and took it on a full stomach. I also made sure I sat upright for at least a half hour after taking it.

I've come here off and on wondering if I've herxed. I can honestly say that last week was my first. I've been on a combo for 5 months, and this was the first time. Everything that has happened in my case thus far, doesn't follow the typical progression of herxing about every 4 weeks.

The whole herxing concept has gotten me thinking.....I think it is as individual as the disease. Some people will react very quickly, others not at all. I think what you really have to look at is how are you feeling while on the meds. Do you see an increase in energy? More mental clarity? Less aches and pains? If these occur even without a herx, then they are doing their thing.

Just my opinion and others will disagree, I think too much is made out of herxes. It's nice if they do show up becuase it shows that the meds are working and the buggers are dying off, but I don't believe they are essential for good treatment.That opinion is really based on just my own experience. I'm getting well and have seen improvement without herxing.It's just plain weird......
cootiegirl

Posted by Gabrielle (Member # 5329) on :

Hi Ellen,

your�re only on Doxy for one week now. Give it time. I started herxing in my third week of Doxy and felt incredibly crappy.

Gabrielle

Posted by mammachase (Member # 5697) on :

I have had lyme supposedly for 2 years until just diagnosed last month. Have been on biaxin and plaquenil and I too am waiting for herx. Maybe the longer we have it in our bodies the long it will take to come out as the llmd describes the disease they hide inside of you like inside a file cabinet and move around frequently, have you heard that? I'm looking forward to feeling worst also so I know it's working, but everyone is asking me how I'm feeling and I can actually say I'm not getting worst!

Posted by sofy (Member # 5721) on :

Good question. I have been on 500mgs biaxin 2X a day for about 6 weeks and plaquenil for about 3 and I dont think I have had anything like a herx or if I have its been very subtle.

Before I got a diagnosis of lyme I tried Olive leaf Extract and that gave me the herx from hell. For 4 days I couldnt get out of bed. I had to crawl to the bathroom and let the dog out. I live alone so had to quit cuz I couldnt take care of myself.

That was what led me to believe it was definately an infectious problem and I finally found out it was chronic lyme made complicated by my having had the vaccine.

Posted by Gabrielle (Member # 5329) on :

Sofy,

I wonder if you maybe also have a yeast issue? Herxing with Olive Leaf Extract sounds more like a yeast die-off reaction to me.

Gabrielle

Posted by HaplyCarlessdave (Member # 413) on :

For me, the "herx" was quite variable, with different abx combis,and the timing varied a bit, too.
When I was first on doxy after I got sick (relapse 2 months after being ...'treated' with 200mg/day doxy for a month and a half), it took about 3 weeks for the 'herx' to hit. It kind of sucked, and I didn't know about "herxes" yet. And neither did my ...;doctor'. (not LLMD)-- the conclusion was that, since I wasn't really supposed to be going to that medical center anyway, that the treatment wasn't working, and that I should just be dumped out on the street to get sicker and sicker-- so much for ..'amerika''s uh, ..'compassionate..'... medical systems....
So if you just started, you may not have been on long enough to notice the herx yet..
The "herx" can be lessened by many different means. There's nsaids,(ibuprofen, etc)- but for me these were surprisingly ineffective for the bad ones. You may notice burning nerve pains and "brain fog" as well as arthritic symptoms. For me it seemed that gingko and garlic helped. Colloidal silver helped in some cases, too, for the "physical basketcase syndrome" that arouse from the herx reaction sometimes. The main thing about the "herxheimer-like reaction" is, that if you don't immediately get better, of get worse after a few weeks, when beginning treatment for lyme, that does NOT mean you don't have lyme. Many patients must be on treatment for a long time- lyme is nasty. If you have a question feel free to write. Here's an overview of my experience: http://dave.clarityconnect.com/LymeDiseaseSUCKS.html
Hope you get better as soon as possible. Be ready for a "marathon", though! Good luck, and I hope youi get decent treatment. Be sure to consider "coinfections" like babesia bartonella and ehrlichia.

DaveS

Posted by duke77 (Member # 5051) on :

I have been on abx for almost nine months now. I have not had a herx or atleast a significant one. I did feel much better after the first week or two of abx. I did test positive so I really didn't doubt that it was Lyme. I think I have had it for many years. Felt okay for 4 months after I started abx then started to get new slightly worse symptoms.

I have heard from other people who beat Lyme say they never had a herx either. I don't know if it is essential for recovery if you have a herx or not. It is a good sign the meds are working though.

P.S. Where can I get Olive Leaf Extract? Does GNC carry it?

Posted by riversinger (Member # 4851) on :

Herxing is caused when so many of the bacteria die that the body can not easily handle the toxins from their breakdown.

If the treatment you are using doesn't effectively kill the bacteria, you would not have a herx.

However, if the treatment is killing the bacteria, but at a rate that the body can handle the die-off, you would also not have a herx.

In my mind, the second option is preferrable, even over more intense die off of the bacteria. A herx by itself can cause damage if it is too extreme.

There are some LLMDs who recommend that their patients back off of the meds when the herxing gets too strong. Unfortunately, it is not always possible to know how much die-off you will get on any treatment, so herxing cannot always be controlled.

So, while herxing is a possibility with Lyme, it is not a necessity to prove infection.

Posted by EllenB (Member # 5764) on :

Thanks so much for ALL of your replies.

I am still somewhat doubtful that this is lyme, and a herx was going to be my validation. I tested positive through Bowen, but am not sure that is enough for a diagnosis. I have PCR results comming soon, so maybe that will help me.

I've been told I have RA for so long that I don't know what to believe.

I may have had this for up to ten years, so I wonder if my dose/drug is strong enough.

Thanks again all.

Ellen