LymeNet Flash: Quick Question About Rocephin

This is topic Quick Question About Rocephin in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by solsearcher (Member # 4482) on :

I've read some discussions here about how important it is to be treated with medicine that cross the blood-brain barrier. I suppose this is most important for those with neurological or psychological problems (like me!).

Does IV Rocephin cross the blood-brain barrier?

Thanks,
Scott

Posted by mcpucho on :

yes.
iv rocephin crosses the blood brain barrier.

oral choices for crossing the bbb are high dose amoxicillan (6.0gms per day or more depending on body weight) or minocycline.

personally i did great on rocephin. 10 weeks. but relapsed off of it, 2 months, and just started again. an unforunate setback. now i only know what doesn't work for me as far as orals.

next time i go off iv i will follow up with one of the orals mentioned.

amoxicillan and rocephin share the many of the same properties.

also i know one person who made a complete recovery on just minocycline. she it took it for 13 months and had been healthy for over 10 years including a second bite years later.

Posted by frenchbraid (Member # 4225) on :

Yes, it does cross the BBB. I was on it as well as my oldest daughter. We did IV Rocephin along with oral Zithromax. We took a month off abx and then did Amoxi, Dynabac (A macrolyde) and Probenecid to keep the drugs in our blood stream longer for 4 1/2 months.

We concentrated on rebuilding our immune systems during that last round of abx and have been abx free for 8 months.

I personally feel that it is a MUST for neuro symptoms. However, our youngest daughter did wonderfully on Amoxi and Dynabac for her neuro symptoms.

Also, getting the Candida under control will help to eleviate the neuro symptoms.

frenchbraid

------------------
Stay positive. Smile. People care.

Posted by rosesisland2000 (Member # 2001) on :

I did 4.5 months of IV Rocephin, 2gms daily.

That was before I saw my llmd, Dr. C of MO, who would NOT have put me on Rocephin as a first defense.

He rarely prescribes IV as it is so hard on the body and orals and oral combinations do just as well for him in treating his patients.

While I got a good two weeks out of Rocephin, I, like many before and after me, quickly relapsed.

I am convienced that me doing Rocephin and not starting out on orals is one of the reasons I have had such a hard time of it.

To put it simply, Rocephin sends the spirochete bacteria into the cysts for where they will stay until the Rocephin goes away. Then relapse comes without an oral abx backup.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

There are orals that do just as well passing through the BBB.

Rosemary

Posted by mcpucho on :

i know 3 people who responded excentelly to rocephin and followed up with orals and im shots to the point of long term remission.

personally i relapsed after rocephin but i find it is the only thing that works for me.

Posted by Petra (Member # 4655) on :

It passes the bbb by about 8 percent I heard from the producers.

Posted by rosesisland2000 (Member # 2001) on :

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013821.html

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013995.html

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/015498.html

mcpucho, maybe it would be a good idea for you to read the following posts...most folks reporting in the following posts relapsed after IV Rocephin and those who are reporting how well they are doing were still on it...in the phase of the Rocephin that you actually feel good.

It would be good to see how these folks did after stopping the Rocephin. For someone to report while they are on a drug that they are doing well and don't know how they'd be doing when they go off Rocephin, if a whole different story.

IV Rocephin alone will not cure Lyme and since the gut is where the spirochetes love to be it won't go there either. There are orals that pass the BBB.

Why would anyone go to all that expense and it is very expense to do IV, when you can relapse so quickly? Why???

Read on...these posts will tale the tale.
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/019815.html

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/022005.html

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/025086.html

Rosemary

Solseacher, I just clicked the search key up under post new topic and up in the keywords, Rocephin relapse and came up with a ton of folks who have relapsed on Rocephin.

Posted by WIZARD (Member # 4597) on :

My husband had 18 weeks on IV Rocephin, along with 250mg Zithromax oral. He then continued with 500 mg/day Zithro and 1000 mg. day Ceftin. He has been off IV since July 2nd and had just had a major relapse in the last week, dispite the continuation of orals. He was dx 14 days after the tick was found with Erlichia and Lyme in July 03. After one year of antibiotics he is still unable to work and has neuro symptoms and insomnia. He started with 45 days of Doxy (200 mg day).
Then took 3 months of Amoxi (4500mg day), then added Zithro to the Amoxi for 2 months before going to IV Rocephin.
Anyone out there with any ideas what to do next? He is being treated by an LLMD member of ILADS, but I feel he is not being treated properly.
Wizard

Posted by rosesisland2000 (Member # 2001) on :

Up for WIZARD in hopes that someone will answer her questions...

back to the first page.

rosemary

Posted by Lishs mom (Member # 2344) on :

Rosemary said "To put it simply, Rocephin sends the spirochete bacteria into the cysts for where they will stay until the Rocephin goes away. Then relapse comes without an oral abx backup."

I disagree with that statment. If all you do is rocephin, your right.
Rocephin should be in a pulse with either zithromax or flagyl as a cyst buster.

Finally, post IV therapy, one needs to continue with orals for a period of time.

It is usually not a first line of treatment as you stated, usually a physician will attempt to control the neurolyme via minocycline plus other types of abx.

Posted by mlkeen (Member # 1260) on :

I did 3 months of rocephin with zith, I may have felt less tired, no folow-up orals, got very sick within several months.

My current llmd says that rocephin alone does not cross the bbb well and that it was the zith that enabled it.

I have been on orals for 15 months and feeling better than in 3 years. My llmd is big on getting more oxygen into the body to allow the body to help heal itself. I'm able to exercise. Some folks do a tank with oxygen in it and others use hydrogen peroxide to increase oxygen levels.

Posted by rosesisland2000 (Member # 2001) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lishs mom:
Rosemary said, "Then relapse comes without an oral abx backup."

Notice, I said withOUT an oral abx as backup...which is the same as you are saying right.

And, you disagree with what I am saying and it's the same as you are saying, If all you do is rocephin, your right.

That IS what I am saying!!! That IS what I said, so why the disagreement? I'm lost at that statement.

Rocephin, ALONE, will just not do it!!!

Rosemary

Posted by Lishs mom (Member # 2344) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rosesisland2000:

That IS what I am saying!!! That IS what I said, so why the disagreement? I'm lost at that statement.
[/B]

LymeBrain at work...I am herxing...and not as sharp today. (Havent had my coffee yet either)

What I was saying is that Rocephin should not be used alone. So it addresses the cyst form.

Then it should be followed up with antibiotic post Rocephin.

My daughter would never have gotten well without it. I on the other hand...have done well with minocycline (i think....maybe not as well as I think after reading how terribly I worded that)

Posted by mcpucho on :

i appreciate the info rose. i will read the links later.

i agree the rocephin alone is not good enough. i have adjuncted it with biaxin 1000mg per day (similar to zith as both are macrolides).

there is no evidence that i have yet to read about 'chetes in the gut. though i am not informed enough about to dismiss it. now that you have brought it to my attention i'll reserach the theory.

i followed up with orals but to no avail. i just started iv rocephin for the second time last thursday and am noticeably making small incremental improvements again day by day.

not as well though as when i discontinued after 10 weeks last time when i was at chilling level : light exercise, yankee game, clapton concert, hanging at the bar with the boys.

now i'm prettymuch homebound again but took a 1hr hearty walk with dog today.

for me it works but MUST find the right follow ups, address cyst forms etc.

additionally i know 3 people who made 'recoveries' with rocephin as their main treatment. from what i'm gathering im bicillin MAY be the best follow up.

as for BBB orals i tried amoxy 6 gms per day but to no avail unfortunately. i know that is the accepted 'art doherty' technique.

i am interested in trying minocycline when i finish rocephin. my llmd said it is not the best idea to use them together because according to him mino slows down the 'chetes and could, in principle, make the rocephin less effective.