I thought there was one but I don't have it... and could use it right now.

THANKS!

Partial list of antibiotics (that cross the BBB) (posted 8/2004, but the info is from 2000):

OFLOXACIN (racemic mixture) a fluoroquinolone

RIFAMPIN lipophilic ----------------- (all rifamycins)

METRONIDAZOLE (Flagyl)- lipophilic

COTRIMOXAZOLE (Bactrim) a sulfa drug -- (all
Sulfamides)

SPARFLOXACIN (Zagam) a fluoroquinolone

LEVOFLOXACIN (L isomer of Ofloxacin) a fluoroquinolone

DOXYCYCLINE (vibramycin) a tetracycline type-lipophilic.

MINOCYCLINE-a Tetracycline

GREPAFLOXACIN-

AMOXICILLIN- a penicillin type, passes BBB only weakly

BIAXIN-a macrolide-passes BBB weakly

ZITHROMAX- a macrlide-passes BBB weakly

ERYTHROMYCIN a macrolide---passes BBB, but not as well as other antibiotics.

also--
Generation III cephlasporins (see http://www.infagra.com/cephalosporins.html )

I'm editing to add this footnote on pencillin -- the Pharmacodymics article suggests that penicillin does cross the bbb -- researchers have assumed it doesn't because it is eliminated quickly from the CSF by active transport. So peak concentration levels in the CSF don't last long.

Does NOT cross the bbb:
- Tetracycline
- Generation I cephlasporins (Generation II cross weakly)
- Penicillin and bicillin (*&^%$#??) (I'm having trouble with this one. I'm on bicillin (and mepron and zith and artemesinin -- and my neuro stuff is largely gone. And other information I've found contadicts this, at least for meningitis tx. See the antimicrobial therapy site. So I dunno. I just edited in a footnote about this, above)

Interesting general info on the different types of abx, where they come from, what they specifically do, at the Todar site. Scroll to get there -- starts about 2 screens down.

And here's an interesting nugget: The blood-brain barrier is an exclusive component of the endothelium of the over 400 miles of cerebral capillaries, where tight junctions prevent substances in the blood from crossing between cells and into the brain.

----------------------
And from PubMed -- discussing meningitis, but interesting re abx penetration of BBB:
Clin Infect Dis. 1998 Nov;27(5):1117-27, quiz 1128-9. Related Articles, Links

Antibiotic pharmacodynamics in cerebrospinal fluid.

Lutsar I, McCracken GH Jr, Friedland IR.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Texas, Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, USA.

The CSF half-lives of lipophilic agents, such as quinolones, are similar to those in serum and peak concentrations in CSF are achieved relatively quickly. In contrast, the pharmacokinetics of hydrophilic agents (beta-lactams and vancomycin) in CSF often differ from those in serum.

In particular, the half-lives of these agents in CSF tend to be extended, and the time to achieve peak concentrations in CSF is delayed. Hydrophilic antibiotics, such as beta-lactams, penetrate poorly through the BBB, but CSF penetration is significantly increased in the presence of inflammation. In contrast, lipophilic antibiotics, such as quinolones, enter the CSF more efficiently and their penetration is not inflammation dependent. The pharmacodynamic properties of antibiotics in CSF are generally similar to those in other body sites; beta-lactam agents and vancomycin are time-dependent, whereas the quinolones and aminoglycosides are concentration-dependent.

However, a notable difference from infections in other sites is that quinolones have a short PAE in CSF and need to continually exceed the MBC for maximal effectiveness. Thus, in CSF, quinolones demonstrate features of both concentration-dependency and time-dependency, evidence that the AUC/MBC is an important predictor of effectiveness.

With the exception of quinolones, many antibiotics appear to have prolonged sub-MIC effects and longer half-lives in CSF than in serum, suggesting that dosing intervals longer than those used traditionally would be effective in meningitis. However, this requires clinical verification.

------------------

So there you are TC. No wonder we're so brainfogged, one little thought has to slog through 400 miles of blood vessels. CalTrans has invaded my brain and put up permanent Detour signs.

Now everybody go to bed.

[This message has been edited by minoucat (edited 17 August 2004).]
 

Just lost my reply!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

Carless....

Thanks for the info... very much!!

I would like to find out more about the doxy doses... but I can't get the link to work. Is it me?

I appreciate your help.

Mincat...

And a big thanks to you too!

I am getting through the links you provided.. and hit one that is going to take me a LONG while to decipher and digest.. but it is GREAT info!

You all provided the information I needed and I do appreciate it.

I will continue checking the links asap. Just got that "wave of tired" hit me.

And just when I was having FUN!

What I need now.. and maybe someone knows without me having to learn all there is to know about words I can't even pronounce at the moment...

I need to find an antibiotic that would help get into the eyes and help reduce inflamation there... and the brain.

What do you think?

Any help available? I am looking forward to any and all replies.

Thanks for your efforts.

Looks like OFLOXACIN might give you the eye/brain penetration you need. Apparently you can use it topically and orally. But I dunno if it's effective against what ails you. Got a good pharmacist you can talk this over with?

Can be hard to kill the bugs AND reduce inflammation at the same time -- just a thought.

: Arch Ophthalmol. 2001 Sep;119(9):1254-7. Related Articles, Links

Penetration of ofloxacin and ciprofloxacin into the aqueous humor of eyes with functioning filtering blebs: a randomized trial.

Cantor LB, Donnenfeld E, Katz LJ, Gee WL, Finley CD, Lakhani VK, Hoop J, Flarty K.

Department of Ophthalmology, Indiana University School of Medicine, 702 Rotary Cir, Room 141, Indianapolis, IN 46202, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: To determine concentrations of ofloxacin and ciprofloxacin hydrochloride in aqueous humor after topical or combined topical and oral administration in eyes with filtering blebs. DESIGN: A prospective, investigator-masked, randomized, controlled comparative study involving 36 eyes of 34 patients with functioning filtering blebs who were to undergo cataract surgery. Treatment groups received either topical ofloxacin or topical ciprofloxacin (instillation of 0.3% ophthalmic solution every 30 minutes for 4 hours before surgery), or a combined topical plus oral regimen (ciprofloxacin hydrochloride, four 100-mg tablets, or ofloxacin, one 400-mg tablet, administered 24-26, 12-14, and 2 hours preceding surgery). The main outcome measure was antibiotic concentration measured by chromatographic separation and mass spectrometry of aqueous samples obtained during surgery. RESULTS: Topical antibiotic treatment yielded mean concentrations of ofloxacin, 0.75 microg/mL, and ciprofloxacin, 0.21 microg/mL, in aqueous. With combined topical and oral therapy, significantly more ofloxacin was measured than ciprofloxacin (3.84 microg/mL vs 0.35 microg/mL [P<.001]). The combination regimen produced significantly greater ofloxacin levels than did topical therapy alone (P =.007). CONCLUSIONS: Ofloxacin penetrates better than ciprofloxacin into the aqueous of eyes with filtering blebs, particularly after combined topical and oral administration, by which ofloxacin reaches more than a 10-fold greater concentration than does ciprofloxacin. Combined topical and oral therapy with ofloxacin may be beneficial in the treatment of bleb-associated infections.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 11545629 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[This message has been edited by minoucat (edited 18 August 2004).]
 

At July appt, Dr Jones said my 12 yr old grandson has Lyme Encephalitis.

In the past, he's taken Amoxicillin.
I think he took Zithromax with Amoxicillin. Then Zith with Cedax, & now Dr Jones has him on Zith with Minocycline.

Dr Jones said he changed to Minocycline because it crosses the Blood Brain Barrier better.

[This message has been edited by cbb (edited 18 August 2004).]
 

I am now taking a glaucoma med that has done a miraculous job for me with the eye pain, inflammation and headaches.

It is Rx Methazolamide 25mg, a sub for Neptazane. I take one at bedtime, and it is a tiny little pill...which I love! Doc said I could use two if needed, but rarely do any longer.

This has been the ONLY thing that has helped with this constant symptom for me after years of trying everything else.

I am also on Mino and Zith, and Flagyl and Plaquenil, and Clinda and...blah, blah, blah...

I sure pray that you will find something to help very soon!

Much love as always,
M

------------------
C O L O R A D O * S U P P O R T * S Y S T E M
[email protected]
 

I am sitting here looking out the window.. and someone just peaked in at me...

That wouldn't be unusual in most situations...

But I am upstairs on the second floor...

Me tinks the crew is here to put on house siding today.

I will respond later... but in the mean time..

THANKS!!!

DMC
 

The brain naturally has a "blood brain barrier" that USED to keep toxins out of the brain or that was its purpose.

As we know pathogens and toxins now exist that pass that blood brain barrier.

Substances have been developed that pass the blood brain barrier to address those pathogens/toxins.

They circulate into the brain's vascular sytem and into the tissues of the brain itself.

They are in most instances absorbed into the body.

Exceptions would be dye for certain tests like the myelograms that used to be the only way to tell if a person had a herniated or ruptured disk or the only way to see the brain. These dyes or contrasts continue to circulate in the spinal fluid when injected into the spinal column.

Now we have the MRI, PET scans and CT scans that don't necessarily have to have contrast or dye injected.

In treating the spirochetes that produce neuro symptoms we need substances that can cross the blood brain barrier.

I use the terms substances because there are some natural remedies that allegedly cross the blood brain barrier.

This would make the Rife machine an AWESOME thing if the frequencies are able to eliminate those brain pathogens. I have no experience with this and am only beginning to read about it.

Hope this helps a bit.

Magdalena
 

DMC
 

Given all the information above, it would appear that Zithro doesn't cross the BBB very well though it is able to enter other tissue. So, in principle, Zithro shouldn't help much with neuro Lyme, should it?

Secondly, according to the above list, Flagyl does cross the BBB, but it doesn't enter tissue does it?

If an abx crosses the BBB, does that mean that it may also help treat neuro Lyme, or would it generally also be a requirement that the abx is able to enter tissue in general?

Michael
 

You are welcome! Glad it made sense!

Michael,

The questions you are bringing up re: your abx regime is exactly why I am seriously looking at the Rife machine.

The brain is very sensitive to frequency! I am not at this point ready to say Yay or Nay about the Rife, but it would BE SUPER if it does what some claim!

This is a field that certainly has been suppressed by mainstream medicine and I for one intend to learn more about it!

Best of Health to you both,
Magdalena
 

You have gotten some great info on abx that cross the BBB, I can't offer any more info, but I do hope you find soemthing that will help your eyes.
I did doxy and then Mino and I think they helped me alot.

Let us know how you are doing and if your eyes are getting better.

Beverly
 

The reason I ask this...is FIRST YOU MUST have a brain, to have a blood brain barrier....before you need to worry about drugs that cross the barrier!

So, if its for you....dont worry about it hon!

HA!
Love ya~~~

Carol
 

Mino...

Very interesting abstract! Cipro (oral) has helped me in the past with a number of symptoms....

The eye doc told me Iritis is an INFLAMMATION of the eye stuff.. not necessarily an infection.. so no antibiotics for the eye directly he said. I did ask.

It doesn't make sense to me though.. not at all really. I guess I am still not sure what the difference is.

No... Maybe I don't understand the theory of INFLAMMATION without a cause.

Yes.. that's it.

My thinking.. which isn't always on key... would be...

If you have inflammation.. SOMETHING causes it.

Now... my eyes aren't outdoors playing volley ball.. or digging ditches... so that let's that cause out.

Toxins.. yes.. I can understand that would ..

BUT...

My thought would be the toxins are being released by SOMETHING I have inside me.

An infection and/or die off perhaps?

The only other thing I can come up with.. is an infection causing the inflammation.

I mean HEY.. I only have 7 tick borne diseases that I KNOW about..

Soooooo.. I don't understand why I would want to use STEROIDS in my eyes... when I could treat the CAUSE of the inflammation.

I know it is serious blah blah blah.. and that is why I was given steroids... but I still don't "grasp" the reason.

Woops.. excuse me.. I am thinking out loud here. What I meant to say was...

I am thinking about the info you posted... obviously.. and I thank you for finding it. It WILL keep me digging deeper for answers.

cbb...

I always LOVE to hear what Dr. J is doing for the kids. It helps not only me.. but the others here.

Ok.. here goes the whining...

I don't LIKE Zithromax!

Or shall I say it doesn't like me! I am seriouly considering the minocycline... and will jump on it probably faster than the zithro... so thanks for sharing!!! And I get the brain swelling on a regular basis... so it is very good to know. I hope your grandson is feeling MUCH better soon!

Hey hey Mountain Girl...

I could sure use a long Taxi ride about now.. even if the driver talks a lot!

Can you tell me.. perhaps.. what was the pressure reading for your eyes when you had them checked.. if you remember? Did it show a glaucoma tendency? Mine isn't high.. so I don't know how successful I would be in trying to get the eye doc to prescribe it. BUT..

You bring up a good point here. I do have a constant headache these days.. and eye pain.. but not sharp pain.. kind of a dull ache all the time. So maybe I could approach it from that angle?

I will check it out.. and thank you for letting me know.

DMC...

I am glad you got an answer from Magdalena. And a good one at that. My answer would have frogs or bear feet in it... but Magdalena was able to speel it out real nice like. Thanks Magdalena!!!

Sofia...

Good to see you!!! And so happy to hear your daughter is doing some better!!!

I am glad you suggested the Minocycline also. It seems this may be a good thing for me?? I will think on it.. and see what I come up with. I always like to hear from folks about what actually works.. and this is encouraging. Thank you!!!

Magdalena- Great work!

You responded for me.. and I do appreciate it. And as anyone here could tell you... I wouldn't have sounded anywhere near that smart!!! Thanks!!!

Cmichaelo- Sorry you are having to deal with the neuro Lyme.. I know it ain't fun!!!

To answer your questions...

I don't know why Dr. C prescribed the doxy first.. eexcept for the fact he may have been trying to kick out any undiagnosed coinfections.. like RMSF, Erick, and the like??

Or maybe... He may have wanted to hit the spirochetes that were free flowing still in the blood stream... and/or see how you would do with doxy? Doxy is fairly cheap compared to the other meds and it hits things in gerenal that need hitting if there... so it is a good first choice.

But you would have to ask him to know what he was thinking.

As for the other meds...

It is a crap shoot. Combining antibiotics seems to help a number of folks... and the one you are on will hit the brain and the tissue.. so the bases are covered.

Unless you have cement inside your skull! HA!

I hope you feel better soon!

Beverly..

Thanks for the response and the kind words. I "do" doxy fairly well... but have never used the minocycline.. so it is good to know the mino helped you too! You know me! I not only want facts and figures before I swallow a pill.. I need a kick in the pants to make myself do it! Thanks for kicking me. Your support really helps!

Lishka's mom...

Go ahead... insult me all you want.

A little girl told me that when they were handing out brains... you thought they said "trains"... and you missed yours!

Carol in PA... HA! I am getting tired. I was thinking about the garlic crossing the blood brain barrier... and for some reason I pictured having to stick it in my ear to get it to work! That is something I need to get back to doing... and you are right. Thanks for pointing out the more "natural ways". I am not familiar with the other herb.. but I WILL check it out! Apreciate your suggestions!!

Hey Shelley...

I don't know the answer to that question.. but I have some thoughts on it.

If you are bitten on the head... and the spirochetes are concentrated in that specific area... it would make common sense that they would diseminate through the brain area first.

I saw that in my case... bitten first on the head.. right side.. and my symptoms started there after the flu stuff. My left side has always been the worst functioning and worst for pain.. so being bitten.. or affected on the right side (opposite side) of the brain makes sense.

I think we did a poll or a discussion on that topic a long while back... and from what I remember.. many folks had the worst of their troubles in the area they were bitten...

If you were bitten on the toe.. and your first symptoms were brain things... either your immune system kept it at bay for a while.. or it got into the spinal fluid quicky... which it can.. and hit the brain quickly.

Don't quote me on any of this theory... it is simply thoughts I have had on the subject.

I guess we BOTH have an "active imagination". hehehe

Thanks again to all who responded.