LymeNet Flash: Calming a Herx

This is topic Calming a Herx in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by DaveinCt (Member # 5818) on :

Hi Guys:

I wanted to start a specific thread and collect ideas from anyone, as to what, if anything you've done (besides cutting back on abx's) to help allieviate your herxes. I'm dying right now with one of the worst herxes since I began treatment and I've read piecemeal ideas on things others do. I just want it on one thread that I can reference. Any ideas would be helpful.

Thx,
Dave

Posted by minoucat (Member # 5175) on :

What kind of herx is it? Muscle pain, headache, fever, all of the above?

I've collected some herxing links -- I know it's not quite what you want, but I'm appending them below.

Glutathione, NAC, ginger, liver flushes, chlorella, and green tea have been strongly recommended to me by my LLMD and PCP. I haven't tried glutathione, but I'd like to. You can get it in nebulizer form (I'd prefer not to do the IV). I've tried everything else; worked fairly well over the long run (over a week or more), but the relief wasn't immediate.

Some folks have had luck changing their urinary pH (from acid to basic)

For me, herx reducers have been:

-warm or hot epsom salts baths (be warned; super hot baths can exacerbate a herx, it seems)

- green tea and detox tea

- liver flush (olive oil, lemon juice, fresh garlic and ginger blended together - about 1/4 cup). Not so great if you're already quite nauseous

- curling up with a heating pad, especially one of the microwaveable ones. Heatpads on my head and neck have really helped alleviate some of my most painful headaches

- backing off meds if the herx got too scary. I'm in the "plough through the herx and stay on abx" camp, but I have no known chemical sensitivities or allergies -- I think I'm lucky that I haven't stumbled up against a reaction to the abx rather than a herx. My husband has had several bad abx experiences, and "herxing through" them made things worse.

- sleeping, even if it required chemical assistance. Sleeping can really really really help.

- benadryl and Tylenol PM. Somewhere, Troutscout says children's sublingual benadryl works best for him.

- Esgic for severe headaches and muscle pain

- treating for yeast (felt worse at first, then better)

I've collected a list of detoxifiers folks have used -- let me know if you want it.

Herx links:
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/023699.html
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/006991.html

urinary pH http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/023305.html

Hope you're feeling better soonish.

Posted by DaveinCt (Member # 5818) on :

Hi M:

Your post was very helpful. When I herx, it's basically the same symptoms that I had before treatment except more intense. My symptoms (herx or otherwise) are always:

S- Shakyness, like when your muscles are fatigued.
A- Achyness, everything hurts from head to toe.
N- Nausea, When the "shaky achys" (my kids call it)linger, I develop various levels of nausea
D- Dizzyness/light headed, Again, after the "shaky achys" linger.

Thx for the help,
Dave

Posted by chainsaw joe (Member # 5490) on :

I can relate,Im going through a herx thats lingering on(a good ten days now).I sometimes cut back on the meds to ease up on the herx if its too intense,Ive cut back this time.I hate to do that but sometimes I think your digging a bigger hole by wearing your self out trying to get through the herx.Ive found,unfortunatly,there is no answers,are you killing them off good,are you getting to toxic,you really cant get an answer.I fight through as hard as I can but its a judgement call.If its too intense or just ghoing on to long I now back off just enough to recover and then back at it(just my opinion).What helps,rest,eat well,stay away from sugar,yeast,drink mega water.

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :

My doctor has found that most people that suffer severe herxes do not really have a herx. Many people, whether known or unknown, are toxic from heavy metals and chemicals. With the bacterial die-off, you not only face the dead proteins, but you are also releasing toxic metals and chemicals from some of the sites where the Lyme houses.
Moving heavy metal, I can tell you, feels horrible, and if you do not have any remedy on board, such as lots of chlorella or whatever you tolerate that will catch these toxins, the worse you will feel. Also if you do not have these agents on board, they metals and chemicals relocate in your body, and then it becomes a never-ending battle.

Most people don't know that they are holding these toxins - and many say they are clear. Let me tell you that I have never met a single chronic patient with Lyme and other chronic ailments that was not toxic from environmental exposures. Many a patient has gone through hell thinking "it's a herx", while in reality it is just other toxins that have been mobilized via abx. Also don't forget that viruses and parasites live in the same territory -- they all like to stick together with the ones you are after with your abx - and some of those also are stirred up and cause you problems.

This is also why I have never suffered a herx when I was taking antibiotics. I was always protected with chlorella and other agents, antivirals, etc. I may not have had such a good day once in a while, but in general I just never experienced a herx, though I had Lyme and all six co-infections severely. So consider this aspect of things before you just keep blaming it on a "herx", while you are overloading your organs/kidney, etc. I think they are way overblown, because many people, including many doctors, do not take the metals into consideration.

In short, it is not easy to stay totally "clean" if you reside on this planet.

Take care.

Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :

I vote for mangosteen juice. It wins hands down over anything I've tried in the past 4 years. Wish I'd had it 4 yrs ago!
http://www.onmangosteendaily.com/go

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oops!
Lymetutu

Posted by minoucat (Member # 5175) on :

Dave, I forgot to mention 2 things:

- magnesium in fairly high doses, broken up at 200 mg doses every 2-4 hours, really seemed to help, especially with sleeping. Nothing amazing, but I felt better on it.

- how's your blood sugar? I was hypoglycemic for several years -- I'm not now, so I think it had to have been lyme related. I changed my diet to accommodate it and got some relief from shakes, nausea, light-headedness.

Posted by beachcomber (Member # 5320) on :

Rest. I have tried everything else. Sometimes I just make a cup of Chamomile or detox tea, take an Advil (or an Rx for anxiety) and just lie down. If you can sleep, that is best.

Posted by peachsc (Member # 4969) on :

I second mangosteen juice! Troutscout tipped me off to it and it has been amazing!

Even my "well" friends have benefitted from it.

Posted by troutscout (Member # 3121) on :

This is one of those threads that I can only agree with everything...well written minoucat.

And....the fast melt benedryls are best.

I have also found that abx are more effecient while on Mangosteen juice...the relaxed vascular system helps the abx get in there better.

Trout