I am wondering if anyone has any experience with TOA free cats claw ? I think it is probly very potent and put me over the edge this week, or could it be coincidence ?
I am just getting over the worst of a severe backsliding depression, and absolutely no sleep for a few nights. This depression happened before, but not this bad, last spring when I was on a combo of ceftin and biaxin. I stopped taking the biaxin because I donot have the support system to handle this kind of side effect. ( I know, it may have been a herx dye off effect thing, but again, if I cant function and am thinking bad thoughts I cant take care of myself and my three kids.) Anyway, I had been taking IV rocephin for 3 weeks, and after an initial feeling somewhat more achy tired etc..., I had been feeling GREAT for a week. I mean realy great. Even my ex, when he came by noticed, hey your playing loud music while CLEANING, you dont like loud music, and you look good, etc... I told him I do like music, cleaning my house, etc... but he just can't remember the real me that was now coming back out. Meanwhile, the TOA free cats claw tincture came in the mail around then, and I was feeling cocky, thought this is what I'm working towards, I want to kill all the bad stuff asap and be this way forever. My doctor the day before had also added a few things to my mix: an antviral med. and a gallstone thining one too, and a request to start walking uphill. So, I did that, 1 Mile walk a day, the new meds with the rocephin, and added the herbal tinctures: 2 drops cats claw, dropperfull of black walnut (an anti parasitic) twice a day. started feeling a bit worse each day until the terrible depresion started(day 4 or 5 into new stuff), then stopped being able to sleep. I have stopped taking anything but the rocephin and got a sleepng pill (sonnata) perscription. It has been one day and I am shaky, but slept and am not crying, losing it, hating myself, etc... So hopefully fine
But, why did this happen ? I think it was the cats claw, at only 4 drops a day ! But will slowly add the rest back in to see. tomorrow I will add back in the walk and antiviral. Does anyone else have experience with this kind of side effect ? How do you handle it ? And are their successfull uses of cats claw or might I just have done too much of everything at once ?
Thanks
Debi
Posted by minoucat (Member # 5175) on :
I had one of the worst episodes of depression/anxiety on the Nutricology toa free cat's claw that I've ever experienced. It was the only new thing I added that week, so I'm sure that was it. I started off at the full dose recommended by my LLMD (8 drops 3x day)
I cut back the dose and am doing better, working back up to the full dose. I think the half-life must be fairly short, since the worst of the anxiety had subsided within about 8 hours of cutting back.
My husband had a similar experience on Levaquin, which I understand has the same sort of quinolonic acid components as cat's claw. According to some of the writeups I've read on CC and LD/TBDs, it's an actual herx, not an allergic reaction and not a standard reaction to cat's claw.
Posted by janinco (Member # 6278) on :
A bunch of us are using the TOA-free cat's claw on the Pro-Health CFIDS board and almost all of us can only tolerate 1 drop a day. Some even have to dilute that.
It's powerful stuff and I'm seeing very encouraging results, but it wouldn't surprise me if you had a reaction to that high a dose to start.
My daughter just started on one drop a day and for the first three days her vision was all messed up (wavy). Then the pain in her back and joints went away and she's feeling much better, but still staying at one drop.
The depression could be from brain swelling, either from toxins released as spirochetes are killed off, or from the new combination of things since you've changed your routine. The antiviral could also be causing a herx reaction (which may be a good thing).
I hope you get your sleep back and feel better again soon -
Jan
Posted by liz28 on :
I take TOA-free claw as capsules, not drops, and was able to build up slowly to the full dose. Yes, I had a huge herx on claw, with all sorts of neurological symptoms like dizziness and nightmares. But then it became quite useful. I just started it again, having just enough cash to afford it.
I can't speak to its longterm effectiveness, though, because I just found out I've had babesia the whole time I was on all these different herbs and abx. As long as your co-infections and other issues are taken care of, maybe this really could add to the cure.
Posted by Limping Lily (Member # 5099) on :
sounds like massive releases of neurotoxins from die-off, especially the insomnia symptom. I've been taking cat's claw frequently, and have been getting what seems to be herxes. I think if we can get rid of the neurotoxins, we'll all get better. anybody have an opinion on this?
------------------ ~*~ Carole ~*~ Now Grandmother of 4, as of Jan. 18, 2004! ITSA BOY! 8 lbs. 3 oz. and 21 inches long!!!
Posted by lymeinhell (Member # 4622) on :
I take it in capsule form. Started it in May. Day 1 - 1/3rd capsule - WHAMMO!! Extreme fatigue to the point I couldn't stand up, dizziness and head pain within 30 minutes. Took me forever to work up to a full capsule. But once I did, seriously helped with the 'crunches' I would hear in my neck.
I am now off abx, and my LLMD has asked me to up it to 2 capsules to try to get rid of remaining shoulder/head pain. Even though I am 95% better, I got instant brain fog from 1/3rd extra capsule within a half hour..
I'm up to 1 and 1/2 capsule a day now - and head pain is completely gone.
------------------ Julie G. ___________ lymeinhell
Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
yes it is very potent. Severe herx from it;
Its killing something, and releasing toxins.
Theres no other way to describe it other then the toxins.
Posted by beachcomber (Member # 5320) on :
I am up to one capsule a day. I have trouble sleeping and it definitely makes me feel like I am herxing. This is my third attempt at taking it. First 2 times I had to stop because it felt like a constant herx.
I think it is pretty powerful.
Posted by mountainmoma (Member # 6503) on :
So, I wonder, if it is so potent on killing the Lyme, why isn't just it used instead of all the abx ?
Posted by mountainmoma (Member # 6503) on :
So, I was wondering, if it is so powerful on killing the lyme, why isn't just it used instead of all the abx ?
Posted by Beth25 (Member # 6270) on :
What brand of Cat's Claw (TOA free) in drop form should I get - and where can I find it? Thanks Y'all Beth
Posted by lhm312 on :
I was on Allergy Research brand Prima Una de Gato, and was able to get up to 6 drops a day very slowly without a problem, but the 7th did me in. I did 3, 2 and 1 across the day.
I am now off it for a while. My alternative dr. recommended 4 days on and 3 days off, which I hadn't heard before and hadn't been doing.
I can't say for sure what it did since I started on other supplements at the same time, but the feeling of having been hit by a truck left when I stopped it.
Posted by mountainmoma (Member # 6503) on :
I have some prima de gato, it's about $50 for a tincuture bottle, which is alot, but you can't take much at once, so it would last alot longer than youd otherwise expect. I think mine is from Nuetricology, but I did a google search for TOA free cats claw to find sources
good luck
Posted by atheana (Member # 14273) on :
Wow! You guys scare me.
I know I have to take supplements to help get rid of die off.
I have Allergy/researchgroup prima Una de Gato liquid. I have been to scared to take anything,other than probiotics.
My LLMD said all you need is Probiotics. I wish he was into alternative as well as ABX. Atheana
and ABX. Atheana
Posted by nwisser (Member # 15682) on :
I'm using Nutramedix TOA-free cat's claw, which they call samento. Although I had been taking regular cat's claw and it did help, when I switched to the Nutramedix, I did herx again, and after that was over I felt even better.
I guess I've said that before, but I still can't get over it. I walk like a normal human being now!
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
My LLMD put me on Allergy Research brand Prima Una de Gato with magnesium. (sells at her office)
Its in capsule form at 375 mg. ea. and wants me to get to 3 x day.
I am at 2 a day, and feel nothing at this point.
I wonder why she didnt recommend the nutrimedix drops.?? Aren't these suppose to be better?
I dunno! Posted by mazou (Member # 15319) on :
I had wicked insomnia from cat's claw, like Grand Central in my head. I switched my dosage to the morning, which cleared up the problem.
Posted by klutzo (Member # 5701) on :
I get my Samento liquid from myherbs.net. A bottle lasts me a long time, but last time I bought one, she was selling the Nutramedix brand for $9 less per bottle than Nutramedix does.
I worked up to 9 drops per day a couple of years ago, but the herxing was unbearable, made me non-functional, and probably caused organ damage. It certainly caused insomnia and Lyme rage. I had to back off to save my marriage.
I now take four drops daily and do not herx. I take it all 30 mins. before breakfast, since taking any late in the day will keep me up all night.
I got rid of the extreme muscle pain from herxing by adding a teaspoon of creatine powder to my whey protein shake every morning. It also upped my ability to exert myself. which allowed me to lift weights and increased my muscle strength.
There are tests to see how well your body removes toxins. I've read that most of us who have Lyme have at least one of the bad genes that make it harder to remove them. I think the test is called HLA DR4. Ask your LLMD if you want to know. If you have two copies of the gene, I believe extra detox measures are a must.
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