How many others are affected then go on additional medications (like my daughter) to solve the issues that Biaxin brought up. I would NOT recommend Biaxin use alone or in combination with ANY SSRI, including Effexor, Paxil, Zoloft, Prozak, Celexa or Lexaapro.
aunty

[This message has been edited by auntybiotic1499 (edited 18 January 2005).]
 

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Sonoma County Lyme Support
[email protected]
 

Biaxin gets rid of bacteria.

SSRIs dope people up if not make them suicidal.( I've got some first hand stories besides what I've read here)

Bet you can guess which I'd take off the market.

Forget about 'depression', go drink a couple of beers for it and take your biaxin.

Charlie
 

So Biaxin can't be taken "alone" either? I don't quite get that. I think flagyl made me FAR more depressed than Biaxin ever thought to!

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oops!
Lymetutu

 

Since I don't drink beer, it wouldn't have done the job for depression anyway....A low saratonin level along with CFS and Fibromyalgia, cytomegliovirus, B-12 defeciency, low white blood count, low thyroid and now Lyme???? I have taken several different abx with prozac and have never had a problem.......except with Biaxin...

had mild hallucinations and other extreme side effects.......it just depends on the person and the way different meds affect you..

If I hadn't been given Prozac by a wonderful doctor and friend, I would have been suicidal years and years ago....my dad had panic attacks for 50 plus years......started prozac 3 years ago and never had another attack......go figure......

So to all of us that have to take meds for depression and are living the best life with can with Lyme, we say to Charlie.......get your facts straight or keep your stupid remarks to yourself....

We are not DOPED UP but only grateful that we have these meds to keep our life on track.....sorry if you don't realize how serious depression is......

charlie.... beer is a depressant, remember??

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oops!
Lymetutu

[This message has been edited by Lymetoo (edited 16 January 2005).]
 

I'm hearing about something that got me well being taken off the market because those who combine it with psychoactive stuff can't handle it.

Let anybody take what they want to...But don't deny the rest of us what we can use too.

I still think SSRIs are a crock but that's JMO...OK??
 

true? not true?
 

I'm a very outgoing and spunky person that almost went nuts with depression and other serious medical problems that nobody could find an answer for....

guess I'm a little sensitive about people that are truly depressed....I know what a black hole that place is....and hope I never have to go back....

didn't mean anything personal Charlie....whatever works for you....

------------------
Debbie V.
 

Charlie
 

Hey Charlie, I hear ya got some snow! I was in Houston at the time...we only got a dusting, but all my other friends and relatives along the coast had the time of their lives!

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oops!
Lymetutu

 

Just wanted to say too that right now I'm on Zithromax and Plaquenel and today's been a huge herx.....thanks for helping me get thru it....
------------------
Debbie V.

[This message has been edited by vandeb (edited 17 January 2005).]
 

Thanks for all the feedback

.

aunty

[This message has been edited by auntybiotic1499 (edited 17 January 2005).]

[This message has been edited by auntybiotic1499 (edited 18 January 2005).]
 

This site explains everything. Scroll down to the info on specific drugs and you will see that zithromax is completely okay (erythromycin is the worst interactor and Biaxin is next).

Prozac may also be a good cushion as you said. Its long half-life makes it easier to stop. We actually used tiny amounts of Lexapro to get off zoloft. We asked for Prozac for the same purpose, but by the time we got it, the withdrawal was over.

Aunty, why don't you switch your daughter to zithromax first of all? The pharmacist you talked with may thing that the whole macrolide class is involved, but this isn't true apparently. I saw this info on several sites. Maybe you could print out the cipla.doc info and take it with you-? I know I'm going to use it...

Withdrawal from the SSRI's varies so much from person to person. Paxil was a breeze to get off for my daughter, even though others said it was the worst. The withdrawal off zoloft was troublesome but my daughter preferred to go through it and get off, so it wasn't torture and it definitely wasn't dangerous. She tapered over 6 weeks, but only ahd problems for 3 weeks. Zaps were only a few days. If you run into withdrawal that is too hard, you can just up the dose again.

Your daughter may have elevated levels of Lexapro due to the interaction w/Biaxin, so again, could you start by switching to zithro , then begin tapering the Lexapro?

Seratonin syndrome is dangerous- what are your daughter's symptoms? It seems like getting the levels down asap would be important. I think the serotonin syndrome is much scarier than withdrawal stuff. You won't know how your duaghter will react to lower doses until you try and, agian, it's not harmful, just potentially uncomfortable, whereas seratonin syndrome is harmful.

Here is a sxite I found on seratonin syndrome: http://members.aol.com/atracyphd/syndrome.htm

Did you meet with a pharmacist in a hospital, insurance office, or a local store? How did you find a pharmacist to discuss all this with?

[This message has been edited by Lyddie (edited 17 January 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Lyddie (edited 17 January 2005).]
 

No amount of antidepressant worked on the horrid type of depression that Bb caused.
Tricyclics seem to be the best choice for Lymies.

Prozac and zoloft put me in the emergency room. Zoloft makers are being sued.

I use a low level tricyclic for stuff other than depression, panic, terrors, etc.
Imipramine (tofraninl at 20 mg) helps me stay asleep and keeps the bad bad panic under control pretty well.
Of course its so old most dox don't think of it.
But I would say mainly that abx worked well with me.

Biaxen of course can be taken alone, and it helped get me going at first for 8 months. helped a lot.

but most dox use a cocktail of abx for tx.
Also, you must understand that becoming worse emotionaly or developing depression can be a herx type reaction esp if you have much CNS involvement.

Charlie, you comments are totally inapporpriate and you should go drink three beers and contemplante your life at the end of the porch. Then return and give me a snappy answer.
 

I posted this several times in the summer, as I got very very ill from the combo of Zoloft and Biaxin.

Moderate Interaction -- Drug-Drug
sertraline and clarithromycin

GENERALLY AVOID: The use of some macrolide antibiotics has been associated with increased blood levels of some selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), resulting in excessive serotonergic effects or serotonin syndrome. The mechanism is inhibition of the CYP450 3A4 isoenzyme, which metabolizes SSRIs. MANAGEMENT: In cases where both drugs are necessary, one could consider using a macrolide antibiotic that does not inhibit CYP450 3A4, such as azithromycin or dirithromycin.

Zoloft and Biaxin should NEVER EVER be combined. Too bad my LLMd didnt know about this, or the pharmacy that handed them out to me. I wasnt feeling too pretty after about three weeks on them

I couldnt find anything for lexapro though and biaxin.

Aunty, Biaxin Xl I believe was designed, not only because of it's extended half life, but because of the VAST reduction in side effects compared to STRAIGHT Biaxin.

This may be of interest to you.

Anyone got a budweiser?

[This message has been edited by TheCrimeOfLyme (edited 17 January 2005).]
 

I would also say, that I started biaxin about 7 days ago, and yep, I am not sleeping well, manic, laughing etc. Like my brain is a lightbulb all of sudden.

Why?

It getting into my brain and killing things as I know this from symptoms flare, 4 day herx, and eye swelling. I would also avoid caffiene as my use of it with biaxin makes it worse. But to be quite honest this is not a bad herx and I am feeling good. It was added for H.pylori and will be off soon, to continue the other meds I am on, my new doc gave me.

I hope they don't take it off the market, and you wouldn't usually hear me saying that about a drug, but this drug has helped many. And if not on the pazil zanax etc and having these symptoms, then I would say herx, but I am not a doctor, just going by my own experience.

Take Care
Lymiecanuck
 

My LLMD opted for Zithromax instead, combined first with Mepron and then(starting in a few days) Malarone for Babesia.

Part of me wishes we'd stuck with Biaxin, because it really seemed to have a strong impact - arthritic pain spiked like you wouldn't believe. Not fun, but you could believe it was working.

I'm less convinced about Zithromax. Hopefully at a minimum its preventing the Babesia from becoming drug-resistant. Subjectively, it's tempting to wonder if Zith does anything at all, besides turn my stomach inside out.

The case for not prescribing Biaxin with SSRIs seems solid enough - I'm not sure that we have a good basis for thinking the drug by itself is harmful. I've heard from a lot of Lymies who feel it helped them.
 

That was my experience too. I don't think Biaxin is the problem here, but that's me. It was the first abx to really help me. I've never taken SSRI's so it wasn't a problem for me.

Tricyclics are often ignored because they are "older" but I've really been helped by them, and wouldn't have made it through treatment without them.

Any abx can cause depression, but it's always been my feeling that the depression was really the Lyme... in the form of a herx.

I'm not denying the combination of Biaxin and SSRI's is a problem. It probably is!
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oops!
Lymetutu

[This message has been edited by Lymetoo (edited 17 January 2005).]
 

Thank all of you for you concern,
aunty

[This message has been edited by auntybiotic1499 (edited 18 January 2005).]
 

Thast what I , at leaset, had to do with the zoloft and biaxin interaction.

Since biaxin holds most SSRI's in the liver, accumulating them to very very dangerous levels, stoping the Zoloft for me and continuing with the biaxin would have still caused the same problem.

I had to go off my biaxin , for me though, I just stopped it, and slowly weened myself down off the zoloft.

I didnt have too too much of a problem doing it that way. I did hve some dizziness, but

my neuro symptoms overall kinda crashed on me for a while after that happened. I wasn't amused, so I definately know where you are coming from!

I tried to just stop the zoloft at the same time as the biaxin and I had withdrawal from the zoloft , really bad muscle pains and weird zaps in my head-

everytime I closed my eyes, a vision was in front of my darn eyeballs that I had not thought of. It was a scary time.

Crime of Lyme, did you discover this interaction yourself, or did any MD or pharmacologist let you know about it?

A lot of LLMD's don't seem to be aware, either. Biaxin and SSRI's would seem to be a fairly common combo for Lyme patients.

Any info on trycyclics (amitryptilene) or quadricyclics (trazadone) and similar interaction w/Biaxin?
 

Here's a "dictionary" of Lymespeak!
Abbreviations for Lyme-speak
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020494.html

I'm sorry your son has suffered so because of the ignorance and/or neglect of his "doctors"...ducks as we call them. Quack, quack.

I would contact your son's dr and ask if he could be switched to Zithromax. Just my opinion....I'm not a dr!

I hope he begins to improve once he finds the right abx for him. Abx is antibiotics. Not a very good abbreviation, but that's what we use around here.

Hope you hang around with us and learn more!

Tincup's Links for new members
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/009342.html

Dr. Joseph J. Burrascano's Guidelines http://www.ilads.org/burrascano_1102.htm

Rose's 15 Facts for Newcomers http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/011977.html

Camp A and Camp B http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/021395.html

Abbreviations for Lyme-speak
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020494.html

Making the most of your LLMD visit
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020605.html

Success Stories http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/022173.html

Western Blot explanation: http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/022767.html

More info: http://www.ilads.org/

Breakthroughs in Lyme Disease http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/024093.html

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oops!
Lymetutu

 

I found it myself. No one told me of it. I investigated after I got DEALTHY sick on them and I read enough to know how to take myself right back off without injuring myself.
 

Howlong wereyou onthe Biaxin Zoloft combination?? Did younoe any withdrawal from stoppingonly the Biaxin. How longdid it tto wean off of the Zoloft??

Did you everget the flu type syndrome from withdrawal?
aunty
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by giftoflife:
I am new to this sight so please bare with me. My son who just turned 13 was diagnosed with Lyme at the end of August. Crashed on me April 13, 2004. I questioned Lyme from the start. We have ticks everywhere! From the beginning all docs said "no" without even testing for it. They kept saying it was a virus and would subside. After 2 and half weeks I insisted blood work be done. Finally they did it along with stool and urine cultures. All was well. I then insisted on more. My son had a constant complaint of nausea, headaches, ear aches, dizziness, vomited a few times, and no appettite. He was just lying there not able to move. He lost ten pounds. Refferred to a ped. gastro.. Again questioned Lyme. Tested negative on WB. More bloodwork, brain MRI, uper endoscpopy,abdomen CAT scan, and Abdomen ultra sound. Nothing except acid reflux. Put on Phergan then Zantac then Elevil. Referred to infectcious disease specialist. Questioned Lyme again. "NO" Did not retest. More bloodwork, stool cultures. Nothing. Back to gastr. Put on Prilosec, Zoloft Reglan. To another gastro specialist. Diagnosed. Persistant chronic nausea. More meds. Zofran, Erythromycin. Suggested a phychiatrist and accupuncture. Phych said he's physically ill and accu. made him really sick. Finally found a doc to send Lyme test to Igenex in August. Positive. We are in Lyme hell. Took off all meds except Zoloft. Put on Zithr and Acidophilus. Tyagn too for nausea as needed. In Oct. new doc took off all meds except Zoloft and put on Biaxin(500mg 2x day), and Plaquenil(200mg 2x day). Biaxin has been rough. Herx. Bad taste in mouth. Beginning of Jan my son kept saying that he feels sicker with the Biaxin. Told doc this. Probably Herx. I have started to not give him Biaxin. Trying to contact doc but not returning e-mails or calls. Maybe what you are writing is true. My son has not been to school since April. He is tutoring at home since October. I can not find a support group in our area. Don't mean to sound stupid but I don't understand what Abx, Bb, tx, CNS mean. Please explain and give me any advise you may have.
P.S. I'm sorry all of you are going through so much pain.

---

ABX = antibiotics, Bb =Lyme spirochetes Borrelia burgdorferi, tx =treatment, CNS=DEFINITIONS -- A number of terms have been used to describe various aspects of central nervous system (CNS) Lyme disease. We will use the following terms here:

CNS Lyme disease -- CNS dysfunction due to local (ie, CNS) Borrelia burgdorferi infection, also known as neuroborreliosis or tertiary neuroborreliosis
Lyme disease-related encephalopathy -- B. burgdorferi-related brain dysfunction characterized by memory and cognitive decline and mood changes
Lyme disease-related neurocognitive dysfunction -- B. burgdorferi-related brain dysfunction manifest as cognitive dysfunction
central nervous system =cns

WELCOME To LYMENET

Here's more goodys! A typical response to newcomers.

Hi and WELCOME! Get a LLMD or at least Dr that is willing to learn about lyme. Borrelia Burgdorferi is a clinical diagnosis, based on symptoms and on your response to treatment. Good Luck, bumpy road ahead.

Post for a LLMD in Seeking a Doctor. Ps remember I am not a Dr, just a fellow sufferer.
Conflicts in Lyme

How to Search Courtesy of Danq
TC LymeNet Links for New Members
Newbie's Lingo

Lyme Disease Audio Network
Dr. Joseph J. Burrascano's Treatment Guidelines
CDC Website on Lyme Disease
International Lyme and Associated Disease Society

Lyme Disease Symptoms
Rashes
Co-IinfectionsThanx M

Rose's 15 Facts for Newcomers
Making the Most of Your LLMD Visit
Camp A and Camp B, The Lyme Disease Contoversy
2nd Version Camp A Camp B

Why You Can't Trust Medical Journals Anymore
Something to share with friends and family members But You LOOK Good!

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Explaining Borreliosis (Lyme) Western Blot Tests
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Melissa Kaplan's Lyme Website Explains Western Blot
Dr. C Explains Western Blot
- Not present
+ Low
++ Medium
+++ High
+/- Equivocal = indeterminate (there, but not as intense as Low)

Western Blot

Drug Interactions and Other Drug Info
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Check Diet Link Atkins Diet
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( No you don't always see a bite and if there's no bullseye the only way your going to be able to tell is (symptoms) and (((Maybe))) WB or lyme dot blot 3 day urine banged with abx's to free your antigens up for the test. )
See this ( . )thats the size of the larva stage tick...
Next nymph size... ( * )
Next is adult ( o ) to ( 0 )
Pretty small????? HUH

Marnies......... Ten Points Regarding Mg and Lyme Disease
In a Nutshell P1

In a Nutshell P2

Part1 Long over Due
Part2
Part3
Part4
Part5
Part6
Part7

Canlyme MAG

Help with Meds

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HerbsCancer Center

[This message has been edited by treepatrol (edited 19 January 2005).]
 

medschool.mc.vanderbilt.edu/ mpb/medphysiology/week2/synapse.I.pdf

We report here, for the first time, conclusive evidence that a cross clearance of serotonin into dopamine neurons exists. Such alternative uptake by different neurons is adopted under circumstances when their own transporter function is no longer adequate. When the serotonin transporter (5-HTT) is disrupted in 5-HTT knockout mice, serotonin (5-HT) is found in dopamine (DA) neurons of homozygous (-/-) but not of heterozygous (+/-) mutant mice or their normal littermates.

PMID: 12031859

Magnesium interacts not only with dopamine, but also with serotonin and norepinephrine neurotransmitter systems.

www.bu.edu/behavneuro/research.html

Want 4 pages of further explaination re: the neurotransmitters?

I saw a TV show on neurotransmitters once. Wow...complex! Sure wish I had taped that show to watch over and over until it "sunk in".

We fell for it too. Son has been on Ritalin since age 6 nonstop. Now..."Preteen Ritalin May Increase Depression" Yup, dealing with it now.

Why? Ritalin increases plasma levels of Mg and changes the Mg-Ca ratio (PMID:7761553). Where is that "excess" Mg coming from...storage areas. What happens when they are depleted?

Fatty Acid Deficiency : It is believed that in ADD/H children/adults, the release and maintenance of certain neurotransmitters, specifically dopamine, is impaired.

This may be due to 3 reasons; Essential Fatty Acids surround the dopamine. Without sufficiently high levels of essential fatty acids, this dopamine simply leaks away out of the synaptic cleft during a nerve stimulus.

In other words, the essential fatty acids prevent the re-uptake of dopamine in the synaptic cleft. (This re-uptake is what Ritalin attempts to correct.) We know that the neurons are covered in a myelin sheath, and that essential fatty acids are required to form this sheath.

It makes logical sense then, that with a fatty acid deficiency this sheath is compromised and stimuli may not be conducted efficiently

So, the simplest solution seems to be supplementation with EFA's. However, it is not so simple. Many ADD/H sufferers cannot convert the EFA into their usable form, as they do not have the enzymes to do so. If we consider the conversion process of Omega 3 & 6, many things become clear.

Instead of supplementing the diet with cold-pressed vegetable oils (LA/ALA), it makes more sense to supplement with pre-converted EFA's like GLA and EPA/DHA. This bypasses the conversion process and eliminates the possibility of non-conversion due to low / no levels of the delta-enzymes.

Many substances along the way block the conversion process viz. Trans-fatty acids (heated oils, margarine); Lack of Magnesium; Vitamin B6; Zinc; Sugar; Alcohol; Salicylates; Tartrazine; Opioid of milk and wheat.

There are also substance which aid in the conversion process viz. Zinc, Magnesium, Vitamin B6, C & B3; Biotin.
www.inka.co.za/articles/cover_story5.php

Our son needed Mg all along...from day 1. Didn't catch the clues...diarrhea at 3 days of age, needed Isomil (higher % of Mg:Ca, slightly).

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 19 January 2005).]