Is Bowen reliable? What about these Lyme "concentration" ratings they provide? Are they worth anything?

Thanks.
 

My LLMD (whom I do not think is God) doesn't like Bowen. She has sent blood samples from perfectly healthy people and they always come up positive for Lyme. I find it hard to believe that every single person has lyme in their body. Just my opinion, though.
 

The testing technique used, the antibody fluorescent staining technique, is a method that has been used for the last 50 years in detecting various bacteria including E-coli,
do discount the results of the test you would have to discount all the test results produced by the technique. Also note that the antibody used to detect the antigen (L-form of Bb) is approved by the FDA for detecting Bb.

SandiB

One LLMD told me that if he sent blood from an elephant, they would tell him the elephant had Lyme. Which, probably, could actually be the case, although I don't think he meant it that way.

I don't know how I feel about Bowen. I have yet to use them but I may go ahead and do so, since my Igenex testing keeps coming up negative.
 

I have always had positive Igenex tests (sadly). I can only say that I trust Igenex to be accurate and just don't know about Bowen. Sounds like it may take time to find out if they are reliable.
 

Just think about how prevalent Epstein Barr virus is - 70 to 80% of the population now are said to have been exposed or have it thru genetic transter. I believe to say that so many people can't be positive or exposed to Simian Virus, cytomegalo, or Herpes I,II,6 and so on would be also be unscientific. These microbes are factually extremely prevalent and widespread. In our modern world, with global travel we are being exposed to pathogens from countries all over the world.

"Healthy is indistinguishable from not presenting clinical symptoms". How many of us test positive for EBV, but do not present symptoms? Is it so hard to believe that many have been exposed and carry Bb, but they lack symptoms? I remember being biten by a tick at the age of 12. At the time, I had a rash and experienced what I now know were minor Lyme symptoms, however I enjoyed a healthy existence until some 25 years later when I had my first serious blowup of Bb symptoms at 37.

The Bowen Q-RIBb test measures the actual Lyme antigen in its Cell Wall Deficient form (L-form)in your blood as seen through the Darkfield Microscopy. The Western Blot and ELISA report your bodies production of antibodies in response to the Lyme antigen. In the case of Lyme where Bb can cloak itself in your own protein and not be detected by your body...no antibodies maybe produced. Therefore, you could have a false negative result. With Bowen if the test is positive, you have the L-Form in your blood. The Quantitative test will measure the number of
L-Forms in a volume of blood. The titers run from the low 1:2 to high 1:128. Again from my own personal experience my first reading when I was very sick was 1:64 high. After two and a half years of antibiotic treatment my titers went down to 1:4. I wasn't surprised as I had NO symptoms at the time and felt better than I had in years.

Another point is Bowen is a specialty lab for specifically testing for Lyme. Nearly all samples received and tested by Bowen are, of course, already suspect for Lyme, because of the presents of the patients Lyme symptoms. In filling out the questionaire that accompanies the test, if reviewed by one's doctor, the doctor could probably 'clinically diagnose' his patient based the patients yes to symptoms on the questionaire.

In most cases the patient has already sought confirmation by other tests, which were negative. Therefore a larger percentage of positives would be expected. I never tested positive with any Lyme test before Bowen, and I had every symptom on the list. Not having a positive test prevented me from getting treatment for several years. I know many other Lymies who have experienced the same scenario.

I believe one of Bowen's greatest contribution is finding the degree of just how epidemic Bb is, infact, it is probably pandemic. Bowen has tested over 6,000 people in the last four years from the US and around the world, the Lyme positives have brought about attention to the seriousness of this disease and how widespread it is. Even the CDC is now reporting that Lyme is more widespread than previously thought.

What I have noted is how many doctors have no idea how the test is done, don't have any
desire to learn about the test, and just repeat opinions from unreliable sources. I guess we have to give them a pass though
, because in most cases doctors don't have time to read all the latest studies. However, good ones do listen to their patients, and I believe that is why we must become Lyme literate and keep our doctors informed.

The background and information on the Q-RIBb test is on the website I noted above. Take the time to read it. If you have questions
email them to me. Please don't be guilty of passing on erroneous information, find the facts.

'Education Impowers'
SandiB

[This message has been edited by SandiB (edited 23 May 2005).]
 

Not sure why it seems that a place of sharing information, thoughts or concerns can become a place where you feel like you have to defend yourself. Don't us lymies do that enough in the non-lyme world?
 

- Bowen has had negatives, from multiple posts on this site from different people.
- Bowen has a patent, and they are going for FDA approval.
- That test has been reproducted by other labs to work.

I would worry about a false negative than a false positive.

At least for me, when I was on ABX, the load went down, and I felt better.

When I had to be taken off ABX, the load went up, I felt worse. (Actually I started to feel worse first, then I took the test, which showed the load going up.)

So for me personally, I can gauge how good I feel based on this test.

Again, 60% of Germany tests positive for Lyme (and I am sure America is just as high), so I hate to inform you, most people carry it around. When your body becomes very stressed, and you live a poor lifestyle, mercury fillings, toxins from your environment, your immune system gets overloaded.

Then chronic infections take over.

Even normal healthy people will die of Lyme, it's not a "set in stone" infection.

Also, many people report surviving one bite, and get a minor self limiting illness.
But multiple bites may be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Considering there are many strains of Bb, I am sure some are worse than others. And having multiple strains will just make it worse.

Many people carry Lyme around for years before they know they have it. And I am sure it's spread from personal contact, maybe that explains the high positive rate.

Just search around this site, you will find all of the posts about Bowen.

Like most forums, Lyme should have sticky topics. This should be one of them because people ask about this lab every other day...

I myself came back *very* positive for borrelia, but negative for babesia and ehrlich (whatever).

quote:

---

Originally posted by hiker53:
My LLMD (whom I do not think is God) doesn't like Bowen. She has sent blood samples from perfectly healthy people and they always come up positive for Lyme. I find it hard to believe that every single person has lyme in their body. Just my opinion, though.

---

At the hope to heal lyme conference in Va this past weekend - atleast 3 doctors were asked about Bowen and 'their' answers were that since they personally had never seen a negative they don't use it.

But one of these doctors (geez i don't remember who, burrascano, bock, jones?) said he is a good friend of mattman and has nothing bad to say. (my paraphrasing is not the best but thats how i interpreted it).
 

The pictures are worth a thousand words. As the LLMD had stated, when you see the keets waving at you, you know you have it.

Since this lab saved my life, I no longer have the co-infections, I only use this lab.

Go to www.lymediseaseinformation.com and look at the Pfizer pamphlet. The coinfection pictures is the same as Bowen shows. Bowen was just patented in January 2005.

If you want to save your life call Bowen at 727-937-9077 and have the doctor set you up.
As soon as the FDA approval comes in, they will be the only approved lyme test.

You either want to know what you have in your blood or not. You can only get well when you know. I do not have the coinfections any longer, but still the lyme.

My husband was on IV recently for six months. When the Bowen test was done, for the first time, his lyme count was cut in half. He is now on Ketek and Bicillin shots 3 times a week.

You also get the results within 24 hours after the blood is received at Bowen. WE ONLY USE AND RECOMMEND THIS LAB. They are also a 501(c)(3) lab and you can take the donation of $250 off of your taxes if you live in the US. They fax the results and then about a week later send the actual pictures.

[This message has been edited by MammaLyme (edited 24 May 2005).]
 

I do have one question though.

Does the test only check for the L form or both? If only the L, than it would be in my benefit to wait until I was off the flagyl, correct?

Thanks,
Scott
 

I believe I had it since I was a little girl--but only with pregnancy did it get bad. Like thyroid disease it seems a stress--whether mental (a death) or physical (a birth--o.k. mental too ;-) the bad guys can get a foothold on your body and your immune system is overloaded.

L

When you test for co-infections, do you mark their form to test for all? I've not called yet ... learning from you all.

bettyg
 

This is the only lab that showed me all the coinfections I had. When my husband tested positive at Bowen in 2001, we later had him tested at igenex with the WB. AT Bowen he had the highest count of lyme of 1:128. AT Igenex, my husband had 8 bands positive. That proved Bowen right there.

They also test for Pathogenic E. Coli control test. This is done automatically also. Go to www.bowen.org and click on lyme research.

When you get the test from your doctor, get it color copied. I take my test home and color copy it. Make sure all of you always get copy of all tests you take.

Pomegranite
 

Robert Bradford the developer of a
relatively new microscope confirms that he
sees the Lyme bacteria that the Bowen Antigen
test indicates is present. From the Townsend
Letter:

As of this writing, the Bradford Research Institute/Ingles Hospital has 100% confirmation between Lyme morphology obtained utilizing the Bradford High Resolution Microscope and the Bowen fluorescent antibody test, 36 patients with positive correlation and 3 controls with negative correlation. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_258/ai_n8592734/pg_1

Blue Skies.......................John

For starters, there are a number of posts here of people saying they got, or know people that have negative tests.

Second, my LLMD in PA said he has seen negative results as well, from treating people to the point where the test no longer shows any bacteria.

Third, I tested positive for Lyme, Babs and HGE before treatment.

After treatment for Babs and HGE, I now test negative for those infections. And that treatment knocked that infection out for good, since I have had 5 Bowen tests for those parasites, and they still come back negative.

So I can speak first hand, I don't test positive for Babs and HGE!

Anyone who says 100% of the tests come back positive is lying or misinformed.

[This message has been edited by Cap (edited 24 May 2005).]
 

I have been testen by Bowen, a year ago for the first time, got a titer of 1:128, highest possible. I have been treated for a year, with modest improvements symptom wise, now the titer has come down to 1:16.

I have read quite a bit about bowen, but one thing has never become clear, related to specificity. I read the procedure in the full patent text, please refer to the following:

file:///d:/My%20Documents/InfoLyme/Bowen%20Patent%20Full%20Text.htm

It states that the test is spcefic for borrelia burgdorferi, it does not say anything about whether that is sensu stricto or sensu lato including also garinii and afzelii. I sent them an email, and I know others have as well, but unfortunately this question has not been asnwered yet. does anyone here know?

By the way, I have faith in the bowen, but i do understand the controversy and why people are hesitant about it.

Adios,

Ronald

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by duke77:
My LLMD concurs he told me not to waste my money on Bowen.

---

In some ways it is a waste of money. Any Lyme test can be viewed as such, since most of us already know that we have Lyme.

However, if a test result can be used to track progress then the test is not a waste of money.

I personally believe that the vast majority of Bb in our blood is floating around in the cyst form (which onlhy Bowen detects.)

Thus, Bowen is probably the most accurate and reliable test around that shows the concentration of Bb in your blood.

WB test from Igenex is also useful, as this measures the imune response to the non-cyst form of Bb (with the exception of the Bb state where it wraps itself in some protein).

Michael
 

Bowen was a CLIA approved clinical lab unti it changed to a research lab last April only because of lack of funding. Research lab status doesn't affect the standards of the lab or test. Consider the source of this information at the SF Conference. As I remember it came from another lab in California directly out of the owner's mouth.
As far as 'too many positives' I think SandiB's post above addresses this completely.
Alex
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cap:
Again, 60% of Germany tests positive for Lyme (and I am sure America is just as high), so I hate to inform you, most people carry it around.

---

Hi Cap,

Can you tell or post your source for the statement that 60% of Germany tests + for lyme?

Thanks Much,

john

 

I was also told that Igenex is being questioned by the same agancies due to the fact that many of the specimens are shipped via Fed-Ex and do not always arrive "fresh". Also, their test is suppsoed to be done twice. So, unless 2 vials are shipped, there is not always a good second, confirmation test.

I asked which is the best lab. The MD said to use an independent research hospital lab, if available to you. I have used Stoneybrook and just now did another test with Yale. So far, Quest has turned out to be the most reliable for me - go figure.

does Anybody know where the 60% infected with Bb in Germany figure came from?