LymeNet Flash: Diflucan and Lyme Treatment

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Posted by coastranger (Member # 7385) on :

Is anyone using diflucan to treat Lyme disease?

Posted by bigmamma (Member # 7181) on :

I am on Diflucan and Mino combo. Minocycline QOD and Diflucan 200mg QD.

Posted by coastranger (Member # 7385) on :

Big Mamma, Have you noticed if the Diflucan and Mino is helping your lyme symptoms?

Posted by Lil (Member # 4853) on :

Yes, I am on day 10 of this to hopefully get rid of neuroborreliosis as per Dr Schardt's protocol written on another list.

The idea is you do 50 days of Diflucan at 200mg daily and follow up for 30 days with a plain penicillin and then repeat this for maybe another round or 2 if necessary.

I started at just 75mg for 8 days and definitely seemed to develop herx symptoms that are familiar to me (very similar to when I first took Doxy last year). Since yesterday I have built up to 150mg and that is the dose I will be staying on.

After a week of not feeling very good at all with a far greater amount of fatigue I have had 2 very good days better than I can remember since getting sick (yesterday at least). Obviously very early days.

I would certainly recommend a search to find the article where Dr Schardt explains his protocol. It was on ImmuneSupport.com. He believes the Diflucan works by blocking our P450 detoxification pathway and this affects the protein that borrelia live on and should eventually cause them to stop replicating.

Lil

Posted by sapphire (Member # 4599) on :

also because diflucan treats yeast, it opens up moreopportunity for better healing. systemic yeast blocks absorbtion of nutrition and also often other medications

Posted by Areneli (Member # 6740) on :

Hey you all guinea pigs, let us know if it works.

I am truly curious.

Posted by bg (Member # 46416) on :

Coast, welcome to the board.

I'm on diflucan too....actually on 11 rx daily for my late-stage lyme, underactive thyroid, diabetes 2 w/out insulin; muscle relaxers, 5 meds for lyme, etc.

See if the search will work for you in medical using the word diflucan in TOPIC line. There has been much discussion this past month about this ok.

If you haven't seen Treepatrol's newbie links, please print it off, check off as you read things as there are months of reading, and Tree/he constantly adds to the links.

bettyg

Posted by lifeline (Member # 3445) on :

I did the Diflucan protocol for 8 weeks and I think it did a lot of good. So, I did it again for another 4 weeks. I'm also not taking abx.

Whether it helped with Lyme or yeast, it helped. Didn't matter to me. It helped.

I've been off abx now for about 8 months, so Dr. B (MO) and Dr. C (MO) recommended I try it.

I'm not saying it works for Lyme... I'm just saying it made a difference in how I feel, and I probably will do it again at a later time.

I took 100 mg Diflucan twice daily.

Just be sure and get liver enzyme testing. Mine have always been within normal range with this protocol.

Good luck.

lifeline

Posted by bigmamma (Member # 7181) on :

quote:
Originally posted by coastranger:
Big Mamma, Have you noticed if the Diflucan and Mino is helping your lyme symptoms?

Yes, I have been improving. Some people here think that the reason we are improving on Diflucan is because we feel better after it kills the yeast. I disagree, because I am on a NO yeast diet and have been since I began treatment for Lyme and I do not have yeast symptoms.

Diflucan is working for me just like Flagyl works for some Lymies.

Posted by coastranger (Member # 7385) on :

I appreciate everyone's responses to my question on Diflucan. Big Mamma let me know if things continue to improve. I would like to give it a go. However, I will need to see which drugs I use that may be impacted by the P450 enzyme system. I believe amytriptyline is one I may have to stop taking during the diflucan trial. Amytriptyline has been very helpful for me so I will have to see about this one. Also, thanks for suggesting the other threads. I will read them too.

Posted by Wink9 (Member # 4516) on :

I tried it for 2 months and it helped me a ton with neuro symptoms.

Posted by Lil (Member # 4853) on :

I wonder if those of you who have responded well to the Diflucan could post how long it was before you noticed an improvement and whether there were any so called herxes.

What I thought were herxes I now recognise as adrenal symptoms. The steroid I have to take for adrenal insufficiency gets blocked by the Diflucan (same P450 pathway) so I need to take a little more of this to compensate. Apart from this I don't think I notice an real herx at all.

Posted by Nal (Member # 6801) on :

This is very interesting. My dr wants me to increase my diflucan to 4x'a a week. I notice that once I take it within a few hours (or even the next day) I do get an increase in symptoms. What exactly is in diflucan? I guess I figure if it can fight yeast then why couldn't it fight Lyme as well? Its a protocol I am going with for a couple weeks to see what happens. I think I definately herx while on it so that must be helpful.

ps. I agree-you do have to have your liver enzymes tested frequently while on this med. My LLMD insists that I have a full CBC and liver function test done once a month anyway-just as a precaution.

Nancy

Posted by Lil (Member # 4853) on :

I would still like to know if others herx with the daily Diflucan.

Thanks

Posted by Nal (Member # 6801) on :

Like I said, I am herxing on it. Im gradually increasing the dose and I definately KNOW when I take it-big flare up in symptoms.

Nancy

Posted by lifeline (Member # 3445) on :

Lil,

That's a hard question...but, what I can tell you is that my herxes are the same whether I took abx or Diflucan. So, I can't really say which.

Even though I'm off abx, I still have some symptoms and when I take Diflucan, I still have some symptoms/herxing???

Sorry, I couldn't be more help.

lifeline

Posted by riversinger (Member # 4851) on :

Lil,

I have never taken Diflucan, but I did take Sporanox, another antifungal, for a major fungal infection before I received my Lyme diagnosis.

The first two weeks I was on it, I had major increase in symptoms, with fevers, muscle aches, headaches, brain fog, trouble breathing, accelerated heart rate, and a number of other things that I have also experienced as herxes on abx treatment.

I think I was on the Sporanox for almost a month before I started treatment for Lyme, then continued it for 7 more months into my antibiotic treatment. I have had to continue to take it occasionally, when fungal symptoms seem to be the issue, rather than Lyme. For me, these have not been candida issues, but other fungal species.

------------------
Sonoma County Lyme Support
[email protected]

Posted by bigmamma (Member # 7181) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lil:
I would still like to know if others herx with the daily Diflucan.
Thanks

Yes, I am definitely herxing from Diflucan. I noticed it right away when I began taking it. This has continued, and got worse when I increased from 100mg to 200 every other day. Now I have recently increased to 200 daily and my neuro herx was so bad I had to take a break and back off.

This is just my experience. I do have a CBC and liver labs checked regularly, with no problems so far.

------------------

Posted by Lil (Member # 4853) on :

Thanks so much to Nal, Lifeline, Riversinger, and Bigmamma for your replies. I also find it quite confusing about whether it is a herx or adrenal symptoms but I have come to the conclusion there is definitely something going on and some days I have had to stop the Diflucan to give my body a chance to recover.

It seems to cause neuro symptoms in me so I think I am going to continue with just 75mg every day for the time being with days off if necessary. I always seem to want to rush things and this is stupid because why suffer unnecessarily.

Although Monday was aweful with a very nasty migraine with dizziness, yesterday was excellent and with much greater energy and ability to do things, I actually felt great.

To sum up it seems to me that very early on in treatment with Diflucan life is full of ups and downs, many days not good then followed by some excellent days.

Does anybody else notice more bad headaches/migraines?

Hope we all benefit because I think its preferable to high dose abx.

Lil

Posted by flygirl (Member # 6669) on :

I am taking it, but was told it's for the yeast I'm fighting off with all these abx.

Posted by Blymie (Member # 7407) on :

Hi Lifeline: I see that you mention Dr C in MO. Is this Dr. in Southwest MO? If so, this is my doctor as well. I'm from IL. I'm glad he is familiar with it. I was going to mention this protocol to his office tomorrow during my phone consult. My understanding is that one uses Diflucan for about 50 days and then uses a plain-type penicillin (not any that end in Cycline) for 30 days, and one may have to do this for three cycles?? This sound like something I want to try because I can't tolerate the Doxy. It makes my stomach burn and have horrible pain about 1 inch below sternum and makes pressure go up my esophgus and burn my throat. It feels different than indigetion or heart burn (reflux) - but maybe it is still some type of reflux. I can't stay on the Doxy more than 4 or 5 days because the pain gets so bad in my stomach. Does the Diflucan cause GI distress? Thanks.

Blymie
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lifeline:
It helped. I've been off abx now for about 8 months, so Dr. B (MO) and Dr. C (MO) recommended I try it.

Posted by Blymie (Member # 7407) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sapphire:
also because diflucan treats yeast, it opens up moreopportunity for better healing. systemic yeast blocks absorbtion of nutrition and also often other medications

Dr. Schardt explains that the Diflucan isn't being taken for yeast overgrowth (Candida). It attacks pathogens that have a weak P-450 enzyme and Bb bacteria is one of these, or something technical like this. I believe that Mycoplamsa critters also can be eradicated with Diflucan.

Blymie

Posted by lifeline (Member # 3445) on :

Hi Blymie,

I went off abx on my own after 1 1/2 years of taking different abx that were recommended to me by Dr. C, who, by the way, is an excellent LLMD.

Whatever he recommends, you can be sure you are in good hands. I still have symptoms, albeit less than when initially bitten.

I wanted to do the Diflucan protocol because I figured I had a yeast problem anyway and planned to hit the yeast with anything I could think of, plus I thought, and so did Dr. C, since I was off abx and wanted to do this anyway, why not do the protocol and hit the yeast and Lyme at the same time.

Yes, this is the Dr. C in MO.

I did not use penicillin. I'm trying to stay off abx if possible. I have ordered a Rife and am anxious to begin that to zap any keets that are left.

I'm so sorry you can't tolerate the Doxy, as it seems to do a lot of good for many folks, myself included. Maybe there is something else Dr. C will recommend that might work.

I do believe there is something to the Diflucan protocol, but, so far, I have not found it to be the total answer. I will be doing it again in the near future, as it does help.

Much can be done to help eradicate this disease, but any one thing has not been found, so far that I'm aware, to be the Big Gun.

I wish you much success.

lifeline

Posted by Blymie (Member # 7407) on :

Hi Lifeline,
Yes, Dr. C seems like a very good man and doctor. I've only seen him once in MAR-05, and have an appt with him again next month. I had my phone consult on 6/2, and nurse advised me to NOT take anymore Doxy. I just herx constantly on it. I even went off of it for 4 days, and then resumed with only 1 pill twice daily instead of 2 pills BID. I've been off of it since 5/26 and my stomach is still not back to normal. I also rifed during my Doxy treatment - but not until after I'd already had the stomach problem and had been off Doxy for 4 days. I must have rifed too much or something because it caused horrible stomach pains 2 days after using and horrible knee and elbow pain - plus even more fatigue. Plus it wired me and I couldn't sleep for 3 days! Anyway, I explained the Diflucan info with nurse and she was familiar with it, and told me she would mail me a script for 60 days - but my doctor would have to do a liver panel in one month. I'm doing nothing right now - not even Nystatin. I'm letting my herx settle down. I am doing hot bath soaks in Epsom salts and spraying hydrogen peroxide on myself after a hot shower - waiting about 5 minutes and then rinsing it off. I'm begging my husband for a FIR (far infrared) sauna. I've had back spasms terribly with this herx also. I've been half living on a heating pad. I hope I can tolerate the Diflucan. Does it upset the GI tract? (Oh, gave myself my first coffee enema today - what a mess! I couldn't hold it for 4 minutes. I did it twice with 2 cups of coffee each time. Thought I could hold the second one longer - but didn't. Had coffee all over the place before I got on commode!) Thanx for your reply.

Blymie

Posted by Ticktoxic (Member # 6876) on :

Now that's a messy story! Did you have to call 911 for a cleanup on isle 6? Those fire boys will do anything.

I've heard of people that can't hold their liquor, but never anyone that couldn't hold their coffee! Ha!

I'm really sorry this happened to you , cause I've been there myself. What works for me is to put a big plastic trash bag down on the floor in the bathroom over some scrap carpeting. That way I'm real close. I have found that it's better to stay on the floor ubtil I get the urge under control. Better to let a little slip on the trash bag. It's just a throw away.

Posted by Lil (Member # 4853) on :

Hi all

Thought I would update you on how its going with the Diflucan. Its very weird but I have had some of the best days in years but I think there is a tendancy for me to overdo things a bit on these days because they are often followed by a poor day.

I have had to be really strict about going low carb whilst on the Diflucan because it is interferring with my blood sugar leveles (making them drop). I feel so much better when I can keep my levels stable.

All in all I am very encouraged and I am going to try 150 mg every other day from today. I first started the treatment 19 May 05 so its very early days. One other thing I have noticed is that I am getting hardly any muscle aches and the stiff neck I had for nearly a month has also gone but partly this is due to using a Pain Gone machine.

Hope others do well too.

Lil

Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

I noticed when I took 30 days of 100 mg of diflucan along with other antibiotics I felt better. Since I couldn't tolerate the other antibiotics Dr. C is having me take 30 days of 200 mg of diflucan. I just started it Friday and can't tell a difference, yet. But I just started rife yesterday, so it may be awhile before I can tell which is working.

Hiker

Posted by Areneli (Member # 6740) on :

imanurse,
I took Difulcane for 4 weeks. Helped me for Candida but I don't think it did anything for LD. For sure I didn't herx after taking it.

Are you refering to Tinidazol?
Yes, this one was useful.

Posted by Lymied (Member # 6704) on :

BigMamma and all the other brave Guinea Pigs, did you go through with the extended use of the Diflucan? Do you think it has helped abate the Lyme?

I am on my week off of tX and decided to take some Diflucan just to keep the yeast at bay.

The first time I took it a few months back I experienced the Star Wars aura. I have had visual aura in the past but with migraine. Nothing like this...just shooting pinpoint light like stars coming at me. This Star Wars aura happened the first time I took Diflucan within a couple hours this new aura started and lasted just a minute.

This round of Diflucan I have been taking it for two days and I got the Star Wars Aura again.

I am intrigued...is this just a side effect of the Diflucan for me or is it killing those ketes in my brain...I am intrigued enough to contemplate taking the Diflucan and switching back to the abx's if I start becoming symptomatic again.

I figure a German Doctor has postualated that Diflucan may inhibit one of the proteins lyme needs to survive...maybe he is on to something...after all Germans build great cars...

Just wanted to see how you are doing and get a feel from you in regards to Diflucan and your little experiment...

[This message has been edited by Lymied (edited 24 June 2005).]

Posted by secondtimearound (Member # 7249) on :

Hi,

I started 100mg of diflucan last Thursday for thrush and possible yeast. Not sure if it's helping that but:

I did a rife session 3 days later and my herx was a lot more tolerable and my head has been a lot clearer. I thought that maybe I didn't have as many sketes active but it may have been that the diflucan helped me detox better.

Wish I knew for sure.

I've been on it nine days so far. I really hate taking it, but now it looks like i'll finish the 30 day supply.

My Best To All,
Scott

Posted by Lil (Member # 4853) on :

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lymied:
[B]BigMamma and all the other brave Guinea Pigs, did you go through with the extended use of the Diflucan? Do you think it has helped abate the Lyme?

I am on my week off of tX and decided to take some Diflucan just to keep the yeast at bay.

This round of Diflucan I have been taking it for two days and I got the Star Wars Aura again.

I figure a German Doctor has postualated that Diflucan may inhibit one of the proteins lyme needs to survive...maybe he is on to something...after all Germans build great cars...

Just wanted to see how you are doing and get a feel from you in regards to Diflucan a

Hi Lymied

I had a similar thing happen to me when I took some Diflucan back in May, it really upset my nervous very badly for the following 2 weeks and I felt dreadful after.

However I have worked out what happened in my case. Diflucan uses the P450 pathway and so does many other drugs so that it is very easy to get a drug interraction and this is what happened to me. I had been taking Plaquenil and Erthyromycin for 6 weeks prior to taking the Diflucan and basically it interracted with one or other of these drugs and it was that that caused the severe auras which made me feel so ill and also severe migraine followed.

I left it another 3 weeks after this happened and didn't take any drugs and then very carefully started the Diflucan again this time at only 75mg daily. Once I knew I could tolerate it without any problems I ramped up the dose.

Hope this helps

Lil

Posted by Lil (Member # 4853) on :

Wanted to let you know I am still doing great after 5 weeks of Diflucan. This past week I have added in Clarithromycin 2 daily and things have been even better.

I have felt so good that I have even got my bike out again and started riding it without any problems provided I don't try and do too much.

Have been walking every evening for around 30 minutes but notice the energy still runs out then in my legs but I don't feel ill with it. I am certainly not sitting around as much as I used to.

I am still really encouraged.

Lil

Posted by secondtimearound (Member # 7249) on :

I agree with you Lil, I feel good since starting the diflucan but I become tired very fast.

My head is clearer but my energy seems to be a lot lower. Does anyone know if this is a side effect of the diflucan? I don't like to look them up because of course I will get every one.

Thanks,
Scott

Scott

Posted by Panchito (Member # 4880) on :

I have been on fluconazole for lyme for a while (no candida infection that I know of, always eat very low sugar, probiotics and yogust with live cultures even when i am not on abx). First fluconazole 150 mg along with 50 mg of minocycline and I went downhill a little bit. Later aftert a break only fluconazole, but at 300 mg.

Appearantly there might be in interaction between minocycline and fluconazole as they both work on the P450 system. Liver enzymes were a bit high, and went off for a few weeks, enzymes went back to normal. Although the doc was not to worried about the fluconazole and minocycline interaction, I the second round I took only fluconazole, have been on 300 mg (150 mg * 2) per day and seeing very modest improvement.

Adios

Ronald

Posted by Lymied (Member # 6704) on :

Thanks for the replies. I have been on 200 mg a day for four days without any other antibiotics. So far so good.

This aura that I got was very different from the aura's I get with migraine. They are short lived and are just sparkly spots coming at me - like a Star Wars movie Trailer...

I really think something is going on here. I just don't know what I want to do. Part of me wants to try it without other antibiotics and see what happens.

The other part of me does not want to backslide because the herx's I endured the first four months of treatment were the type that land you in the hospital. But at that point I was fighting babesia and ehrlichia hme and hge so I think future herxes could never be as bad as they were.

I need to learn more about this P450 pathway...How did you all know it was the P450 issue and not a herx?

So interesting...

Thanks Again!

Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

Blymie,

This is off topic, but thought you might want to know there are two of us just down the road from you with lyme (in Normal). E-mail me if you wish. My main LLMD is Dr. B in Hoffman Estates, but she is on a leave of absence until at least August, so I went to see Dr. C in MO.

I am back on diflucan now and no other antibiotics. Hiker