Doc you do know that these ignorant people are more affraid then anything else.

The truth is scarry.
 

I found it I think.

Problem Link?

[This message has been edited by treepatrol (edited 17 June 2005).]
 

Plus, you are from my HOMETOWN! Good ol "everybody's hometown" Media.

Trails
 

I don't post often but I read a lot this forum and I had beneficiated SO MUCH from all your posts.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T LEAVE US!, ignore the "stupid ignorants" and stay with us, you don't even imagine how many lymies -like myself- are you helping without even knowing it.

Really hope you stay but if not THANK YOU and best of luck.
lymster
 

You are wonderful, and besides, who can we talk about sex and lyme with??!!

Lymester
 

I am following your advice. I asked you a while back about my mercury fillings, and also mentioned that I have a bad root canal, and I didn't know what to do about this.

You suggested clindamycin.

My doc put me on Clindamycin this past Mon as part of a protocol of Mepron and Ketek. A fairly high dose, 600 mg twice a day.

Today is Thurs. And guess what? My root canal no longer hurts. I will see how this goes, but I have an appt to have the tooth pulled in early July. If the pain is gone, I see no reason to proceed with it. Will save me $1400.

Docdave, you have lots to offer us. We all need to agree to disagree. We all have to make our decisions on our own from everything we read. This is a confusing, controversial disease, and noone knows the absolute truth.

I would encourage you to continue giving your opinions. We all need to see our options from all sides, and you are the only dentist on this board, to my knowledge.

Nobody on this board has the right to tell someone they are wrong. It is fine to have an opinion. But when someone asks a question, they want the whole story and alternate points of view. I have seen lots of controversy over these dental posts. And I, for one, think it would be a shame for only one viewpoint to be represented here. You have my support, and I will continue to read any posts which interest me. But ultimately, it is my own decision when it comes to making decisions on my care.

There are some on here who went through thousands of dollars to remove their fillings who have seen absolutely no improvement from this.

Please hang around. We need you and you need us!

Connie
 

Your education is invaluable here and the fact that you would spend time with us when you are well. I for one thank you over and over.

Please reconsider!!
Lymelady
 

Nancy
 

I understand your frustration, being that you are in remission and so many of those giving what they believe are absolutes are NOT in remission or even sick.

It is difficult to keep sharing what you know in light of those circumstances, but please don't give up. I was once banned from a board by a mod who didn't like research. All of my research was lost, I really wanted to give up, but I'm in 95% remission. We are still a rarity. We have to keep looking and discussing even with the those who are ignorant to figure out why we made it and they are still strugllng.

Please don't give up. Your wisdom is desperately needed.

[This message has been edited by Jellybelly (edited 17 June 2005).]
 

I hope you are able to take a break and then come back. Things can get pretty hot around here, and I understand your frustration, and feeling unappreciated (and worse) when attacked.

However, your input is very valuable, and if you find it in your heart to return, I know you will continue to do much good. So many people need this forum, and you ARE an important contributor.

------------------
Sonoma County Lyme Support
[email protected]
 

If we do this than these kinds of things wouldn't happen.

Stupid and obnoxious people can go to hell as far as I am concern and it is them who should leave this board.

 

We need you more than we need them.

There are a lot of newbies like me who don't post often (and some not at all) but we're all reading everything we can to educate ourselves.

We need all the good information we can get so we can get our health back. We all know we can't be in constant contact with our LLMD's and this is one place where we can get quick information.

If those of you with correct information, experience and education leave, then we are just left with conjecture and assumptions.

Please don't go!
 

DLL
 

I was attacked after one of my first posts. I never did figure out my offense, but didn't post for a long time.

Glad to hear you are in remission, I hope to be soon. Enjoy your summer.

Mel
 

------------------
oops!
Lymetutu
 

Don't let the few rude and disrespectful get you down.

Please reconsider

I am a newby but could some sort of discipline been enforced for those who are rude,sarcastic ans disrespectful. And, of course, fot those who post names that are not supposed to be posted.
 

It seems unlikely to me that I could ever be thought to advance the cause of snake oil, having battled it pretty hard myself. Hope that was not what you meant.

We really need people here with some actual subject matter knowledge, or it gets to be just sharing little bits of our own experience, and questions from never ending stream of newbies. Sharing experience is really important, don't get me wrong. And newbies will apparently always need help, doesn't look like the medical profession is going to stop generating new customers for us anytime soon. If they were doing their jobs, then no one would need to come here.

Support groups are mainly needed with diseases or problems that are not being handled well by the professionals.

I quit posting for about two weeks because of hurt feelings too. Someone smacked me around for reasons I didn't think were valid. That person doesn't come here much to help others. Not the first time this has happened. A while back, when the search function was still working well, I got chastised for suggesting that someone use it to get more in depth information. Two people told me this was unacceptable, that everyone deserved a unique response. Well, they get that, but some really good stuff has been posted here in the past, but those posters are long gone. People get tired of saying the same thing over and over.

I get tired too of people with overpowering personalities or a pet idea to push. Keep swearing I will not come back, especially when it seems like just sharing ignorance. And the ones you try to help don't bother to acknowledge it. So, when people like doc dave leaves, we are losing a valuable resource. This forum has been called anti-intellectual by people on another forum. If we keep losing resources, they could end up being right.

It is instructive to notice that the people who criticized me are not around at all or very often. The two who said everyone deserved a unique reply helped subsequently with long posts to a couple people and then left entirely. Guess it was too much work to keep doing that.

You weren't putting me in the snake oil camp, were you doc dave? If I have been this much misunderstood, maybe I should not just leave but throw away my computer!
 

Apparently she didn't "get" your jocular advice.

Many of the newbies are anxious about their health, and post lots of questions without first reading the available background information.

Many newbies just can't believe that the situation could be so dire. When people with lots of hard-won experience offer advice, the newbies don't comprehend its importance.

I'm sorry that this situation has turned into such a fiasco.

Carol
 

I am a newbie here, and have really learned some things from your posts. It would be sad for you to leave as so many of us newbies need to have access to your knowledge and information.

Please reconsider and help us with this team/support grop effort.

Jean
 

I too,thought,what a wonderful opportunity to save someone from the pain and agony of this wicked disease.

SAD 

Yet, in my never ending search for Lyme info I'd like to know where the other board can be found. Could you email me please.

thank you

janet
 

stay.......gary

------------------


 

I'm in remission, and still post here, even after Gary called me a bottom feeder recently

You probably just need a break from these boards.

You're an asset here.
Barb
 

Janet, the other board I mentioned was a usenet, sci.med.diseases.lyme, but I don't recommend it. Used to be a great place for more technical/research sorts of topics, but was unmoderated and trolls and people with very bad manners took over and drove away most posters. Still some research abstracts posted there by people trying to reclaim the forum, but it is an uphill battle.

A better choice, if you want to read another forum, is the yahoo group. The set-up of yahoo groups is not as user friendly as lymenet. Takes some getting used to.
 

Sorry to hear about the acrimony, and I understand your sentiment. If you decide not to stick around, it's your perogative. However, I think many of us would miss your wit, expertise, bedside manner, adept advice and guidance.

Either way, the brunch you promised me at the Breakers, Maralago, BallenIsles, Admiral's Cove, or any of the myriad of clubs you belong to would be just dandy next time I'm in PB.

 

Sorry to read about all the garbage going on right now for you, etc.

Yes, this board can get downright nasty at times with no full-time moderators holding down the fort.

I didn't know any of your background either; everyone's nickname varies so much.

I hope you will take a break and come back refreshed willing to share your dentist background with all needing that expertise in their lives.

I guess I'll start a post asking that people with any type of medical, legal, or other technical experience show that in their "signature line; example, disabled retired dentist w/lyme of ___ years".

It's nice to be able to "trust" the advise we all give out so freely on the board without knowing if that person is a "professional" or someone like me who has the illness & their own experience.

I hadn't had a chance to visit with you but read many of your posts. Take care & God bless you Dave.

Remember, lyme brings out the worst in all of us since it attacks our minds/personalities.

bettyg, Iowa ... 35 yr. lymie; dx 1 yr. ago!
 

I have read most every post from the last year to see what is new in treatment and diagnostics.

I have learned from your comments or answers to others in the past.For that, thank you.

And Lou...I don't feel you should have been accused of doing something bad by referring people to the search engine. I wish it worked properly so i didn't have to go through every page of the past years topics in the past few weeks. I didn't want to ask questions that had already been answered somewhere. SO, i think you were smart for suggesting something like that.....jellyfish
 

It's wonderful to know that you are responding to treatment(s).....getting the opportunity to widen your life's focus.....be normal

I thank you for sticking around to continue to share the medical/connective stuff about lyme and our bodies....you do good work........(cause it is work.....hard, consuming work ......day after day).

I have no medical/science background and I learn so much from you and the others who wade through the science journals and know the right questions to think and ask.

I come here daily to read what you, lou, (missed), and tincup can put forward for us to reflect on/take to our doctors. You are on a mission and it appears selfless.

I learn from the personal stories, too, and I hear this amazing support.....sense your spirit/feel your reach.

You must do what you must, though, but there are many.....many who just read and do not post and I know they know your heart and rely on your help.
 

I for one agree with most of your posts and invaluable information. So, I wish you wouldn't go.

But, I fear you sometimes come off as being intolerant of others' viewpoints. I think some of those folks might take offense to be called ignorant or stupid. Those are harsh and perhaps arrogant words. People are entitled to voice their opinions.

I have always respected your educated wisdom on this board. You have balanced out the stuff you call "snake oil". Please don't lose it and be taken down by those who are unkind and, try not to be so yourself.

You have helped me in the past and I appreciate it. Others have too.

Lymetoo says it well.

Just my 2 cents.

Bc
 

Posted under the orginal thread that Treepatrol listed in his posting with regards to this matter

To reinterate: You helped me with some dental issues in the past---correctly--and I am thankful for your knowledge

To touch on another subject matter presented on this thread--why is it that alot of people on Lymenet can't:

1) accept an opinion other than their own--"I said opinion"---not the healthy habit of brainstorming and discussing medical topics that are still somewhat open to interpertation--or even those that are said to be "cut in stone".
Unless you are a medical expert who's name is on the medical abstract being presented for discussion--you are of the "Opinion class" regardless of your background.

2) Believe that anyone with any sort of medical knowledge could have an interest in posting on Lymenet, they must be trolls, or imposters--that looks like an inferiority complex--why would you not think that others who also share your plight can share their experince---do you have to "NOT" have some sort of background in medicine to experince lyme--and even those who have a medical background admit that they don't know everything---they usually only chime in on what they know well--or have experinced personally
Doesn't sound a whole lot different that posters who have been dealing with the chronic infection for yrs (I'm an old pro--dx.ed in 1996) just helping out when they can---usually from the voice of experince

You may not have to agree with everything that your lyme elders post----but please be at least thankful----as they could choose not to bother--and then where would everyone be?? Huh??

Lou, Charlie, Tinny, all the old-timers---you are saints---and to be commended

A Lyme badge of honor!!!

Just my two cents worth--take it or leave it!
 

I missed something...please don't leave. I had a root canal problem a while back and you were very helpful.

I enjoy our posts and you seem very knowledgable to me. Everyone's entitled to there own opinion and I wish people wouldn't be rude. If they don't want someone's opinion they shouldn't post.

Are you totally well? If so, then you did something right and we might be able to learn something from you.

We certainly have learned alot about your views and expertise in dentistry. Free adivce is greatly appreciated in my book.

I CAME to lymenet for help for something that no doctor could figure out. I needed to hear that people (lots of people) were having some of the same weird symptoms as me. Symptoms that I couldn't describe in "medical terms".

I COME to lymenet for on-going knowledge and understanding of a hard to understand disease.

I appreciate everyone's opinion/advice and do not take any advice without compeletely researching it for myself and asking my LLMD about it.

I don't even take all my LLMD's advice if it's not financially right or something I just can see doing without, for now.

I don't think you can expect someone to just "take your advice" without question, from an internet site. As time tested, experienced, vouched for, testimonialed, backed up, guaranteed, written about 5 million times, either from a dr. of any kind, researcher, or just a plain chronic lymie.

All opinions are valuable here as it proves some things - Lyme is a terribly misunderstood disease; we are a long way in finding an "absolute" cure, but have many ways to relieve some of the symptoms.

And that we are all very vunerable human beings. Susceptible to injury from disease and from insults.

Doc Dave you valued here!
 

Will you please reconsider and just take a 'vacation' from lymenet? We really need, value and appreciate your input here. Pretty please?
 

Who the heck is DocDave?

hehehe

If I had a nickle for everytime someone jumped on MY head here at LymeNet..

I'd be a rich honey-do-this... for sure.

AND... if you continue this line of thinking young man...

I am going to lock you in your room until you decide better of it.

Ya hear?

Now get back to work. People need help.

And I need you.

------------------
If you get the choice to sit it out or dance...

Count me in among all those who hope you stay. Take a break, if you need to. I'm a newbie, too, but I have already figured out that your time and efforts expended on the board and for lyme are intense, and your contribution is very valued here. Please don't let the worried, fearful, or disruptive people run you off.

Michelep is familiar to me from another board, too. She has seen a couple of doctors and asked for advice the other alternative medical board run by a trusted MD, all of whom said she would be fine. She was advised to come here for expert advice, and instead of the final pat on the hand "you will be fine" she probably expected, she was hit with advice that was very hard to swallow.

I suspect she was feeling trapped, scared, overwhelmed, confused, whatever, and struck back when your response rubbed her the wrong way. It's unfortunate you were the target of the overreaction. Hopefully hurt, angry feelings will calm down and the memory will fade.

You guys all have the biggest hearts, and I am continually amazed at how much you give and give to help a newbie or someone in need of support and answers. And that's just what I see on the board. I know many are involved in advocacy, research, support groups, helping others...

Thank you so much for all you do.

Nutmeg
 

I would especially value your thoughts on some of the new tests and studies that have been done in the dental field, if you have the time and energy to do so. I would like to see informed discussion of facts, studies, peoples experiences etc... it helps us get a more complete picture to see all sides of it.

I sincerly hope I am not someone who has offended you. If so, it was not intended that way, and I am sorry. I do not have much time for this forum lately and did not know until today that someone dissed you so bad and that you would be sensitive, and did not mean anything insensitive myself, but in rereading I wondered if after that experience you might have took what I said wrong. I was certainly not trying to insult you, only wanted to say noone can keep up with all new info, especially us sick ones on this forum. And, would you please look at this new information and studies. I am not in the dental field, if you see problems with this data or tests, I would love to know.

Usually the pro/con dental amalgam banter is a bit polarized and not as polite as it could be and it normally seems to roll right off of you and everyone else. Personally, I am put off and frustrated by this from both sides. I am far from perfect and my frustration may show.

Certainly, there are many things that are posted that are not mainstream and that seem a bit out there to me also. But, I would like to keep an open mind, different things help different people. I would not call it all bull**** in a blanket statement. I would not just run out and do something someone suggested that was not standard either until I did quite a bit of research and thought into it. I also think it is great that you have the knowledge and take the time to tell someone having trouble what to take to help them out. It is so valuable to us here who are too sick and poor to easily find and pay the right doctor to tellus these things.

Genetics differ immensly, for example some people effectivley detox heavy metals and some dont. It would not be correct to say that no one is affected by heavy metals OR that everyone is and must detox to get well. There are no blanket statements, the co illnesses to Lyme that keep us sick differ between each of us. For example, I fit the profile for mercury toxitity. But, I want as many tests info etc as I can get before just running with that kind of thought. Which is a good thing I checked further, for while I probably have some of that, my main metal toxics are copper, in a big way, and lead, both pretty unambiguous in tests.

Take a break and come back, we need all the help and caring people we can get.

Please reconsider. I have not read all lthe way to the bottom, and I do not know the history of this decision,so I hope you are considering returning.

I for one, have always valued your posts. Don't let rude people ruin the discussion. We need you.

Ann in CA
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lymetoo:Hey doc....sorry if I'm one of the ignorant ones. Some of us have been helped by "snake oil."....We can differ in our opinions and not be nasty...that's for sure! So, please continue to hang around with us, OK??

---

I second that!
I have had some contriversial treatment work for me but I like having someone with a different opinion or experience.

Kudos on your recovery and candidly, I do hope you'll stick around, or even lurn now & then, even if it's just for levity, & shi*ts & giggles.
 

[This message has been edited by JesusisLord (edited 20 June 2005).]
 

Take a breather, my friend. Sometimes situations can bug us worse one day than on another.

This newbie was obviously way out of line and if she did come back, I would also voice my displeasure with her rudeness....if you come here for answers, be grateful for the outpouring of support.

I definitely did not appreciate her behavior towards you.

So as you can see, don't let one bad apple mess things up - there are a lot more apples in the basket that like you and want you to continue to be part of the bunch!!!

Take care and hope to see you back real soon....
cootiegirl
 

I have been on forums for horses, lyme, my profession, etc. and yes there is always a certain amount of "snarkiness" but on this board it seems to run rampant.

This board is very helpful, informative and offers support but you kind of have to weave your way through the harsh comments, bitter beans and just mean spirited jabs to get the info you need.

It does seem that newbies who don't know a lot and are overwhelmed with the idea of lyme get criticized for how they post, like if they use caps or write to many sentences without a break, you MUST do this now or else, etc.

It was very hard when I first started seemed like I could do no right when all I wanted was to learn.

I don't know DocDave or any of his posts, but he is getting a great deal of support to stay...maybe he needed that, I hope he stays.

But what about the newbie who needed help? a lot of not very nice things being said about her. She probably felt put on the defensive and was not clear why everyone was so intense.

Everyone take a breath, try to remember newbies are just that, new, and scared - confused - not lyme literate and looking for advice. Try to phrase it in a supportive and respectful manner and they will be more open to it. Ordering them about and scaring the C**p out of them will just make them back away from the board like I did for the first year I was sick.

Naturally, someone will find this offensive but it is not meant to be. Just try to remember newbies have very little information and, as with any illness, geting hit with such intense (correctly so or not) demands of what to do or not, does not feel supportive.
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jellybelly:
Wow! Foggy, you have a "manservant"....seriously??? You have the option of Perrier or Pelligrino in your fridge at the same time???? Lucky you!! Where in this wide world does one get a "Manservant"? I want one.

---

Funny
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jellybelly:
Wow! Foggy, you have a "manservant"....seriously??? You have the option of Perrier or Pelligrino in your fridge at the same time???? Lucky you!! Where in this wide world does one get a "Manservant"? I want one.

---

No, I wish, just trying to lighten the mood like others have as I appreciate the kindly Doc, and don't want him to leave.

btw: If I did have frivolous $ and a Manservant, it would be negligent of me not to donate the remaining $500k required to fully endow the Lyme Research Center at Columbia, in NYC.

[This message has been edited by Foggy (edited 18 June 2005).]
 

Thanks Doc
I appreciate the advice.
Be well,
Teri