oops! Lymetutu
There was another thread kind of on a similar topic but my questions are somewhat different... I had a Comp. Panel for Babesia by Igenex which was apparently all negative (antibodies, PCR, FISH). However my doctor strongly suspected Babesia right off from my symptoms, and considering how many people seem to been totally unresponsive to treatment until they realized they had a Babs infection this is one I want to rule out as totally as possible before just having it assumed I don't have it (or at least assumed for a long while).
Can any of you guys tell me the sensitivity of that panel (% of known infected people who test positive), or any of the componenet tests? Or also, how many species of Babesia the Igenex FISH tests for?
Since I live on the West Coast do you think it would it be wise to have the Igenex Babesia West Coast Panel additionally? Would the differences be that great between that and the Babesia Comprehensive? Or maybe a test from Bowen? (is there any general test that will catch any species of Babesia?) From reading other people's stories this is something I really don't want to have slip by me...
I also tested positive IgG for Bartonella which I don't know that much about. Does anyone have treatment experiences, or general information regarding that?
Much Thanks,
john
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"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."
--James D. Miles
About all that I can contribute to the conversation is to tell you that I have heard that there are 17 (?) variations of Babesia, and only one (2?) can be tested for. The tests are used, but I believe that many LLMD's will treat for Babesia based on symptoms. My LLNP uses Mepron and Zithromax because it works against Lyme as well as Babesia. There are other similar combos.
I would also recommend calling Igenex to ask them your questions about various panels. I have been told that they are very helpful in this regard, recommending tests based on your medical history, not their financial gain.
Suzanne
I can't address your test questions, except to say that there is no 100% reliable test out there as of yet.
If your doc suspects babs...why not do a trial run of meds and see how you respond? It may be easier than trying to get a positive.
Here is some info on Bart for you:
Bartonella: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/bartonella-links.html http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/008362.html http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/022126.html http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001931.html http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/023623.html http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_bartonella.html
My best to you,
melanie
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C O L O R A D O * S U P P O R T * S Y S T E M
[email protected]
quote:
Originally posted by Melanie Reber:
If your doc suspects babs...why not do a trial run of meds and see how you respond? It may be easier than trying to get a positive.
Exactly my thoughts. This is why some LLMD's simply TREAT babs. Testing is pretty lousy as far as false negatives.
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oops!
Lymetutu
). Thanks very much Melanie for those threads on Bart, those were very informative and also the information on how it attacks the body (I also visited emedicine.com and it appears bartonella and babesia symptoms can also overlap to quite a degree since they both attack Red Blood Cells, as if things weren't complicated enough already).
One interesting thing is that abdominal pain is listed as one of the symptoms but I can't find a more detailed description, my dad has had GI disturbances and pain for the longest time. However abdominal pain is such a common symptom maybe that's reaching;
I do think my Dr. may treat me for Babesia anyway, as you've suggested (not sure), I do remember her saying its nice to have a positive test so the insurance will pay for the costly medication, but not sure exactly how much she was planning to take into account a + vs. - test. Supposing I have both, if I was treated for Bartonella first and then Babesia that work just as well as in the opposite order? Or is there a good chance the treatment for Bartonella would fail if the Babesia wasn't under control?
Much Appreciated,
[This message has been edited by sunnyslumber (edited 18 June 2005).]
Does anyone know the answer to this question:
""Supposing I have both (bart. + babesia) , if I was treated for Bartonella first and then Babesia that work just as well as in the opposite order? Or is there a good chance the treatment for Bartonella would fail if the Babesia wasn't under control?""
Thanks much!
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"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."
--James D. Miles
But now starting to believe doc.
He had me do trial of Zithromax and artemisinin just to see what would happen.
At the time I did not know babs symptoms.
I had sweats and chills w/ that combo after a week.
So, Its a clinical diagnosis also. This challenge can give clues as to whether babs is really a problem to you.
Call Igenex and ask to speak with Dr. N. H. (the guy who runs it) He is nice and answers lyme patients' questions about testing!
Good luck!!! 
I found that bartonella responded very quickly to rifampin. Since I couldn't go off other abx for babs and Lyme, I took 150mg/2x day of rifampin rather than the normal 300mg/2x day. It's been working well. I also take mepron, ketek and artemisinin for babs, and omnicef and ketek for Lyme. You would never start on all this at once, but would build up to it if it met your medical needs.
If you don't want to go the whole hog at once, one suggestion is to start with rifampin, artemisinin (a fairly benign herb, which suppresses but does not eradicate babs) and maybe something lighter at first for Lyme, if you have it. Babesia is more disabling than bartonella, but bart is dangerous in other ways, and the neurological effects can cause you much bigger problems in your daily life.
If artemisinin causes a herx or flare, you can present that as evidence to an LLMD that you have babs and need stronger treatment.
[This message has been edited by liz28 (edited 26 June 2005).]
[This message has been edited by desiree (edited 26 June 2005).]
He herxed and she then started treatment.
I thought I read that bart is treated for last.
Thanks for all of the bart info and documenting/linking many of the previous threads.
*how important in terms of treatment considerations is it to be tested for Babesia WA-1 by Igenex or for Babesia generally with Bowen etc...?
*Would the use of a trial of artemisinin once I have adjusted to ketek (just started) be adequete to confirm or refute whether treatment for babesia is indicated?
*Would the presence of untreated babesia prevent the success of a treatment regimen for bartonella?
Also since I'm taking full doses of two orals (amox. and ketek) I'm afraid that may be very likely to cause yeast problems... is there any good non-oral alternative to amoxicillin or should I not even be worried?
Thanks for posting Liz28, that is truly a soup of antibiotics! Hope it worked or is working for you! I thought rifampin increased the metabolism of ketek so you wouldn't be able to take the two together for any length of time?
I've just started Ketek so if my Dr. wanted to treat for Bart. first off using rifampin i'd have thought that would be a problem for me? (don't want to take one of the quinolines--they are totally synthetic!) I thought I might have to switch to zithromax since I think it could turn out to be a waste of money to be on rifampin & ketek for a long time
Lastly Dr. B's guidelines seem to suggest in chronic lyme to hit hard with I.V. then oral & and coinfections (if I'm understanding correctly?) Did most of you guys get treated that way, or first try combinations that would go after more than one thing at a time?
So for example if you have Borrellia, Babesia, and Bartonella, how important is order of treatment? Do you want to make sure you've done something like IV, to severely reduce the level of Borrelia, before you go after coinfections even with something as strong as Ketek? Or can the IV be done at a later time with no loss ( to you ), or not at all?
Theories, research, personal experiences, shameless speculation welcome,
Thank-you!
john
ps pippy & desiree, are you both still in CA? I only know of 3 llmds here. The one I go to is in San Diego.
[This message has been edited by sunnyslumber (edited 27 June 2005).]