LymeNet Flash: NO VITAMINS,MINERALS,SUPPLEMENTS!!

This is topic NO VITAMINS,MINERALS,SUPPLEMENTS!! in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/35216

Posted by hwilsonvt (Member # 7453) on :

OUR LLMD consults with Dr. D of BOston and they believe in taking only the antibiotics(Biaxin/Plaquenil. You are not allowed to take any other supplements except probiotics for yeast if needed. It seems so many people list all these supplements that can help and we can not take them. Additionally, all this research shows we need certain vitamins but they believe that not taking them helps kill the Lyme. What should we do???

Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :

This is a controversial issue. From what I have heard, Dr. D believes that many supplements feed the Lyme bacteria. Most LLMD's, however, believe that it is important to feed the host.

There was a discussion related to this a couple months ago, which you might be able to find with a search. I think that the thread included Dr. D's whole last name, so try searching that.

Some of Dr. D's patients pointed out that there were only certain supplements that Dr. D asked his patients not to take. You might want to ask your doctor to discuss this with him. If there are specific things that you think would be helpful for you, ask specifically about those.

Posted by micul (Member # 6314) on :

I'm surprised your Dr doesn't tell you to stop eating also because regular food supplies pathogens with all the nutrients that they need to continue to multiply and survive. I had lyme for about 4 yrs before I got sick to where I had to make any changes in my life. I attribute that to taking vitamins and supplements, and excersing.

This vitamin question comes up a lot because people want to do all the right stuff, and supplements are a controversial issue just like every other aspect of lyme Tx is.

I think that I would like to see some proof from this Dr that his cure rate is any better than those Dr's that encourage supplementation. There are many top LLMD's that use vitamins and supplements as part of the total package for getting well. I have done some research on people that have beaten lyme and been off abx for over a year. There are no strict guidelines as far as supplements go. Some have taken a lot of vit and supplements, and some have limited certain ones. It is the same way with which abx work the best. They all used different regimes to get well.

Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :

quote:
Originally posted by tickedntx:
Most LLMD's, however, believe that it is important to feed the host.

Absolutely! It's crazy to think that we can deprive our bodies of needed vitamins and minerals and expect to get well. Just my 2 cents.

------------------
oops!
Lymetutu

Posted by hwilsonvt (Member # 7453) on :

Yeah, I have been starting to think that what we are being told to do it a little over the top. Dr. D specifically says absolutley NO B vitamins and vitaminc C. I am thinking that it just makes sense to feed your body some of the good stuff that helps it run not cut off the bodies supply.

Posted by lymeloco on :

quote:
Originally posted by hwilsonvt:
Yeah, I have been starting to think that what we are being told to do it a little over the top. Dr. D specifically says absolutley NO B vitamins and vitaminc C. I am thinking that it just makes sense to feed your body some of the good stuff that helps it run not cut off the bodies supply.

hwilsonvt

I have never taken a vitamin in the 5yrs. of treatment.
As far as vitamin b&c are heard the keets feed off of them.
I guess everybody has their own preference.

I'm thinking if you eat the right foods...the excess vitamins will only be excreted.

I say if it works for you... then take them!

Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :

You ARE acidic...thanks to the keet. It depletes many alkaline nutrients and some acidic ones too AND the outer cell wall of the keet is acidic too...protein, chain of amino acids.

Okay...the B vits and C are also acidic. Too acidic harms healthy cells. Can do a number on the kidneys esp. since they maintain the pH (acid-base) balance. They can only work just so fast.

The abx. are KNOWN to deplete Mg and Ca (tetracyclines) and some B vitamins too.

It is important to try to restore the BALANCE.

Normally we need only a LITTLE mineral/glycogen reacting with good acids to keep us healthy.

It's about balance. Trying to bring the body back in balance.

Not easy!!!

Dr. B's guidelines suggest several carefully thought out supplements. I'm with him! We need nutrients to heal and to fight nasty pathogens.

I believe we need to support our body when it is attempting to conquer a disease and to heal.

I believe the body is reacting via multiple pathways to try to "protect" us. We have to observe carefully and figure out why this is happening and what we can do to help.

Here's one example: many diseases cause the body to produce antiserotonin antibodies. Why would this happen?

When the neurotransmitters drop, the neurohormones kick in (elevate). Why? Guess what...testosterone has protective features! I know, this happened to my son.

Five YEARS of treatment? Why? What's wrong? Are you still testing positive for an active infection?

My research began when it appeared almost 3 years of nonstop powerful abx. (all of them and those for co-infections too) weren't "curing" my sister. I wondered WHY.

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 22 June 2005).]

Posted by bpeck (Member # 3235) on :

There are many substances that can interfer with the absorption or metabolism of certain antibiotics.

Or somethines you need to take a vitamin (like Vitamin C) while you take certain abx - Like Minocycline.

As far as starving out bugs by withholding supplements- I don't think any Dr. beleive that would happen, unles you were starving the body of nutrients also.

I have never seen research that shows that
NOT taking supplement helps Kill Lyme (unless
it's a substance that chemically interfers with the P450 metabolic pathway.

Becuase of substance -drug interference- I didn't take vits/mins with my antibiotics... but I pulsed my antibiotics, and I heavily supplmeneted with vits/minerals and other subtsnces inbetween rounds of antibiotics.

This is a subject wehere almost everyone has a difference of opinion. SO you'll have to hear them all, then decide for yourself
what you want to do.

Barb

Posted by lla2 (Member # 2364) on :

I think it says it all "i've never taken a vitamin in the 5 years of treatment"!...5 years of treatmnet!! no wonder you've been onn treatment for 5 years, your body needs vitamins and nutrients!! it has nothing for your immune system to draw strength on to fight these keets!!

you need to do a search and pull up posts on dr. D...you'll learn a lot!!

Lisa

Posted by amkdiaries (Member # 7035) on :

What vitamins and supplements have you been taking? I read it somewhere that certain vitamins and supplements can counteract the antibiotic you are taking, which can prevent it from killing the lyme. Not all vitamins do this, just some.

amk

Posted by lymeloco on :

quote:
Originally posted by lla2:
I think it says it all "i've never taken a vitamin in the 5 years of treatment"!...5 years of treatmnet!! no wonder you've been onn treatment for 5 years, your body needs vitamins and nutrients!! it has nothing for your immune system to draw strength on to fight these keets!!
you need to do a search and pull up posts on dr. D...you'll learn a lot!!
Lisa

I know many people who are vegetarians, use to jog five miles a day, and hated taking antibiotics!

Tried vitamins, herbs, supplements. She thought they were working....she crashed!
Like I said, everyone has there own preference.

I have had lyme for many years! I also worked through the first three years of treatment. It was an injury that took a toll on me, and the stress made the lyme worse!
What works for you, doesn't necessarily means it works for others!

I do believe blood-work can help determine what your body is defecient in.
I'm new here, and I feel like your attacking me!
Who is Dr.D. anyway??? What does that mean?

Posted by hatsnscarfs (Member # 6562) on :

Hi LymeLoco,
We have a practice here af referring to LLMDs only by their initial. Dr. D. practices in Boston & Cape Cod. Many of us are seeing him. He has helped me alot.

He does tell his patients not to take B or C vitamins. I recently asked him if I could start Magnesium and he said he would prefer not. He did OK the other things I'm taking: primal defense, milk thistle & fish oil.

Since I am making great progress following his protocol I'm not going to mess with it. He does stress the importance of eating lots of healthy foods. I know a number of his patients reported feeling better when they stopped taking vitamins.

He has written various papers on Tetracycline and overlap of Chonic Fatigue and Lyme symptoms. You can find at least one of the articles on canlyme

hatsnscarfs

Posted by lla2 (Member # 2364) on :

no i'm not attacking you ....i'm attacking hte concept of not taking vitamins and minerals...that's absurd.

dr. b's protocol for women is what I take and after 2 years I am now freeof abx and feel great. i have boosted my immune system and take the multivit pack with minerals for women from pharmanex, omega 3's and omega 6's , magtabsr 2xday adn vit b6 100mg...

this is all recommended in dr. b's guidelines andit's worked wonders for me...weaned meoff abx and i feel great. \

Dr. D has worked well for many. Wehn I said do a search it's because he has also caused harm to many. For me If i had stayed with his protocol of biaxin /plaq, or tetra for any longer I would have died...I needed other abx...

Iknow I'll get blasted, but i do have a right to my opinion...as does everyone else. THere is a woman in my support group in a wheeelchair because of dr. D's research, and not treating for coinfections..he may test, but still doesn't treat for babs etc..and she can't walk now because of it...damn right I'm angry about it...

do a search adn read posts for yourself...I"m happy I got out when i did. He 's a great guy and a wonderful researcher, but I wouldn't trust my life with him again....

take vitamins and minerals...your body needs them!! the keets take them all...you'll keep getting weaker and weaker..

Lisa

Posted by lymeloco on :

quote:
Originally posted by hatsnscarfs:
Hi LymeLoco,
We have a practice here af referring to LLMDs only by their initial. Dr. D. practices in Boston & Cape Cod. Many of us are seeing him. He has helped me alot.
He does tell his patients not to take B or C vitamins. I recently asked him if I could start Magnesium and he said he would prefer not. He did OK the other things I'm taking: primal defense, milk thistle & fish oil.
Since I am making great progress following his protocol I'm not going to mess with it. He does stress the importance of eating lots of healthy foods. I know a number of his patients reported feeling better when they stopped taking vitamins.
He has written various papers on Tetracycline and overlap of Chonic Fatigue and Lyme symptoms. You can find at least one of the articles on canlyme
hatsnscarfs

Thank you for clearing some things up for me!

I got on this site to tell everyone how great I'm doing! I've been taking breaks in between regrouting tile, and putting kilz on my wall.

I only asked for you guys to be here for me, because my son is coming home on leave, and it's the last time I'll see him before he goes to Iraq.

I wasn't trying to tell anyone what to do.
I said it before, and I'll say it again.
Everybody is different, and what works for some... doesn't necessarily work for others!
Honestly, I prefer not to -iss my money away!

Hatsnscarf, I do appreciate your kindness, and an explanation about all this!

Thanks, Lymeloco