LymeNet Flash: Babesia and never getting better???????

This is topic Babesia and never getting better??????? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by Mishelly00 (Member # 5897) on :

Hello, I was just reading through old topics and scared myself silly. Someone posted that out of all the co-infections if you have babesia you will never get rid of lyme.......Oh my god is this true?? Of course I do have Babesia and this scared me. I am on month 13 of treatment and things are moving slowly but is this going to be a dead end!!! How long should Babesia be treated I just went through 3 months of Mepron and Zithromax and I am now not taking it anymore?? Should it have been longer?? I have had Lyme probably for about 7 years. Michelle

Posted by pini (Member # 1405) on :

I would like to know the answer to your question too because I have Lyme and Babesia and I am not doing well. I just found out you can never donate blood if you have Babebiosis because I was told it is different than Lyme.

Posted by tvalentijn (Member # 5255) on :

Babesia is a parasite, not a bacteria. It is easier to treat than BB. The BB hides in the Babesia parasite, so while treating the BB you HAVE to make sure you get rid of the Babesia.

It is difficult to test for Babesia, so the longer you can stay on the Babesia meds the more sure you are that get rid of it. I had Mepron and Zithromax first and then Mepron and Ketek. In total I took it for 6 - 7 months. The treatment is very expensive so I guess that is why people try to do it as short as possible - I am glad I did it longer.

Good luck,

Tim

Posted by LC (Member # 7070) on :

Mishelly-You are almost exactly where I am. I've been treated for 13 mo. and the last three have been w/ Mepron. My doc. told me that Mepron is at least a 6 mo. commitment. We also may try Levaquin for bart next just to see what happens. I can tell you that after flatlining in progress for many months I now see some more distinction between good and bad periods. Overall the fatigue, headaches, neck & shoulder pain,low body temp,flushing and cranial pressure are less intense. I also added weekly saunas, juice plus, Selenium, NAC & alpha lipoic acid to my regimen which seem to help too.

Posted by Gabrielle (Member # 5329) on :

Tim,

do you have a link about the Borrelia hiding inside the Babesia? I read about this before but I forgot where. And I couldn't find anything with the search function or in google. Is this a proven fact or a theory?

Gabrielle

Posted by lla2 (Member # 2364) on :

no, actually that's not true..the BB is not inside babesia..they are two totally different entities....bb or lyme is a bacteria and hides in the tissues /etc...babesia is a parasite adn is in the red blood cells...

what you probably read is that the lyme will not go away until you treat the underlying coinfections like babesia...

babesia is not easier than lyme to get rid of..quite the opposite is true...babesisa is one of the tougher coinfections to get rid of , also bartonella, another tough coinfection with simililar symtopoms to babs, so if you don't get well after many months of babs treatment your llmd may suspect bartonella and treat that..it's is in about 85% of the ticks in the northeast now....

just wanted to straighten out a few falacies here...

also you can't donate blood if you 've had either lyme or babesia or any coinfection now...according to the red cross..because you can never really eliminate every single bacteria or parasite and don't want to pass it on ...

Lisa

Posted by lla2 (Member # 2364) on :

ummm, was going to correct my post, but that part is now gone....

anyway, the lyme IS in the blood, just isnt' inside the redblood cells like the parasite babesia is....hope that makes sense....

you can treat babs and lyme at the same time..but most llmds won't treat the lyme alone wihtout treating the babs too, or first, as the lyme won't go away wtihout treating the babesia...

lisa

Posted by NP40 (Member # 6711) on :

I would definitely add artemisinin to the zith/mep mix. Additionally, they should be pulsed, and sometimes you may want to come at the babs with malarone/artemisinin, or plaquenil/art.

Everyone's different, so some meds may not have the desired effect on certain people compared to others.

Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lla2:

what you probably read is that the lyme will not go away until you treat the underlying coinfections like babesia...
babesia is not easier than lyme to get rid of..quite the opposite is true...babesisa is one of the tougher coinfections to get rid of ,

EXACTLY

I have had NUMEROUS [have no clue how many] rounds of clindamycin/quinine for the babesia. I've taken several bottles of artemisinin.

I'm not sure it's gone. I've had Lyme/babesia for at least 46 yrs, so it's not going to just go away without a fight.

According to my LLMD mepron is no more effective than clindamycin/Q .... so I doubt a few months of mepron is going to always clear the babesia.

Sure, it could....but I doubt it...especially if you've been ill for a long time.

------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice. I am not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!
oops!
Lymetutu

Posted by Gabrielle (Member # 5329) on :

Tutu,

what was your dosage of Clindamycin and Quinine? I'm on Clindy and Chloroquine and I upped my dosage of the latter and now I feel so lousy.

How did you do on this protocol? Thanks!

Gabrielle

Posted by nellypointis (Member # 1719) on :

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lla2:
[B]no, actually that's not true..the BB is not inside babesia..

Lisa,

I can't find any studies on this but I have certainly heard and read it mentioned on several occasions that Bb can be found inside Babesia (and this is the reason why Babesia must be treated first). My ID doctor mentioned it as a possibility and i think JB also mentions this

Nelly

Posted by Foggy (Member # 1584) on :

There was data at a recent Lyme conference showing how bb can swap DNA. Can Babs swap DNA with babs, or with bb? That's the kind of study I'd be very curious about.

Posted by liz28 on :

I'm another person who was disabled, with almost no change, for over four years before considering the babesia option. It's worth noting that I was on zithromax and plaquenil for much of that time, and they had little effect on symptoms.

A year ago, three improvements took place in quick succession (and only because a kind insurance company made it financially possible): I switched from zithromax to ketek, I followed up on a New York Times article and Lymenet suggestions about artemisinin and started on 300mg/day, and I started mepron at 2 teaspoons/2x day. Also, I take a lot of liver support. Mepron can really come down hard on your system.

These antibiotics not only had an immediate effect on the babesia, but they turned my life upside down, since I'd grown used to an existence built around being disabled and victimized. It took about three months to whittle the babesia down to a manageable level. I'm now approaching ten months on this abx combination.

I still have one predictable relapse for a couple of days every month, and will relapse if I go off these abx for too long. But I can work and exercise again, and am undergoing intensive bartonella treatment with rifampin. The Lyme is still around, but it has changed dramatically.

My current doctor, a Lyme-sympathetic mainstream person, predicts I'll be at 85% in six months.

Posted by beachcomber (Member # 5320) on :

Not necessarily true that you "have to pulse" the meds. I have never pulsed Babesiosis meds. Some MDs feel strongly that a break is not a good idea. Others think it is. Depends on the person. I do better if I stay the steady course. We are all very different.