LymeNet Flash: This is what I don't get

This is topic This is what I don't get in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/36778

Posted by Ruffy (Member # 7146) on :

Syphillis is apparently the brother/cousin to Lyme. It's the closest spirochete imaginable. It has a cell wall. It can cause many of the same physical symptoms neurologically. Yet syphillis can be cured in 2 weeks with penicillin injections regardless of stage.

So why is Lyme so difficult?

Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :

Syphillis USED to be cured with only 2 weeks (or so they said). That is no longer the case and hasnt been for some time.

Syphillis is now antibiotic resistant. This is recognised in the medical community without a problem since it was reported by gay men who insisted they were not responding to the treatment--and they were believed.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5387438

Syphilis also does not have as many strains as does Lyme. Lyme has over 300 worldwide.

And even though Lyme is a spirochete, it is a totally differant Class, Order, Family, Genus, & Species than Syphilis. It only shares the same Kingdom & Phylum.

Syphilis is to Lyme what a Human is to a whale (we share the same Kingdom & Phylum). But we differ all the way down in taxonomy from that point on.

Would anyone try to argue that treatment for a whale is equal to that of a human? Of course not.

But humans ARE cousins to whales...exactly 10 times removed.

There are many spirochetes. One is Cristispira, that has only been found growing on the crystalline style in the digestive tract of certain bivalve mollusks.

But what kills this type of spirochete in a mollusk may not work for Lyme.

Science is just not simple.

Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :

Interesting info, Kara!

------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice. I am not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!
oops!
Lymetutu

Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :

up

Posted by Lymied (Member # 6704) on :

Hey Kara,

Thanks for the whale analogy...I will stop spouting off that Lyme is like Syphillis...that is my favourite attention grabber.

I just want people to realize that Lyme has the same nervous system implications as Syphillis since most people don't realize that Lyme does attack the CNS.

Very informative post, Thanks!

Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :

Lymied,

Actually I do use the Lyme/Syphilis analogy when I give lectures. It has a punch, dont you think?

Posted by hodologica (Member # 6408) on :

Not counting genes which are common to most bacteria, Bb has analogues for about one half of Treponema pallidum's genes. Their relationship is not particularly close; the spirochetes are a distinctive group, but are so ancient that they have diverged from one another significantly.

Residual morbidity such as seizure reportedly does remain after treatment in a fraction of neurosyphilis cases. It seems there has been debate as to whether this comes down to scarring or possibly continuing infection. If the latter, the fact that the illness does not(?) relapse all the way to the pretreatment state is puzzling.

Your question regarding Bb's recalcitrance against antibacterials is indeed the kazillion jillion dollar question. The vexation is compounded when one recognizes the excellent sensitivity of Bb to antibacterials in vitro, and also the finding (by three separate groups) that Bb isolates from treatment failures of erythema migrans have not gained significant resistance to the drugs taken by the patient, as quantified by sensitivity tests in vitro.

No one has put forward an excellent hypothesis, IMO, respecting the mechanism of this phenomenon, but two similar situations appear to exist. The rare multisystemic infection Whipples disease is reportedly not successfully treatable in a fraction of cases, yet in vitro, the causal organism is nicely suceptible to a variety of drugs.

The other analogue is the Wirostko / Johnson bacterium, which appears to be the cause of most human uveitis, tho it has been essentially ignored (put [wirostko e] in pubmed to see this corpus). This species responds to rifampicin in the human but fails to be eradicated, and at least a few other antibacterials were explored by this group with inferior results. It has not been cultured.

The generality of these organisms resistance suggests that in vivo they could be dumping the drugs out thru efflux pumps, because the latter act amazingly nonspecifically and are the only known means by which bacteria may enjoy resistance to all classes of antibacterials. However, I am having no luck yet finding any data which suggest this hypothesis to be realistic.

Posted by troutscout (Member # 3121) on :

Another 'zinger' is this....recently a study has shown that Lyme Spirochetes actually mate and swap genes. In otherwords...if you have strains in you that have learned how to avoid detection, or are resistant to antibiotics can then pass that feature or learned characteristic on GENETICALLY to its offspring..and the offspring of other spirochetes.

This shows as we learn more..we have a much more resourceful bug than we have originally thought all along.

Trout

------------------
Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within.
Let the claws be bared,
and Lyme BEWARE!!!
Iowa Lyme Disease Assoc.
www.ildf.info