LymeNet Flash: post-lyme & estrogen?

This is topic post-lyme & estrogen? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by eloise (Member # 128) on :

Hello.

I had active Lyme for 9 or 10 years. Every antibiotic. Then what I think was a remission. I haven't been on abx for about 4 years. I still get "blips" sometimes, particularly pre-menstral blips. I am wondering if others experience this? Last week I had pretty significant tingling in all my extremeties for several days, then broke out in a rash (not sure if related or not). With onset of menses, both symptoms on the way out.

Is there a correlation between pre-menstral time with what I call "post-lyme blips"? I'm wondering if it has anything to do with estrogen levels and whether anyone has found that treatment with progesterone cream has been successful?

Thanks very much,
Eloise

Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :

there is a woman doc in calif studying this. i wish i could remember her name, because others have asked similar questions. you might get some answers if you did a search on here-also she spoke at the 98 conference at bard college in ny. if anyone has the info on that here name is on it. there definitely is a relationship-but i can't tell you what it is...and i know you need to be careful of the p. cream. i f i evver find that book of lectures from the conferenc i will post here name.

Posted by eloise (Member # 128) on :

thanks for this. i look forward to other responses but i will see what i can find in the archives.

Posted by millymollymandy (Member # 7703) on :

Hello Eloise,
I am convinced that there is a big link with Lyme and estrogen and progesterone. My symptoms get dramatically worse from about the middle of my cycle for about ten days. Joint pains and burning, really bad ovulation pain, eye problems and tiredness.

I have about a week of feeling Ok'ish after my period. Have you had hormone tests done? Have you had long spells on the pill?

Black cohosh seemed to help a bit with some of the symptoms- but I have found that it is only one particular brand; Kordels Black Cohosh Isoflavone Complex. I've tried others but nothing seems to work like that one....

Posted by eloise (Member # 128) on :

Dear Millymollymandy (love that name),

I never would have thought about Black Cohosh. Thanks a lot. Never took the pill so that isn't part of the problem.

Thanks again,
Eloise

Posted by millymollymandy (Member # 7703) on :

Hi again Eloise,
Just been googling and found this which confirms my thoughts- haven't found out why it happens yet-

For women, Dr. Barkley has found that testing around the time of menses increases the probability of discovering the presence of Bb. "Women with Lyme have an exacerbation of their symptoms around menses," she explains.

"The decline of both estrogen and progesterone at the end of the menstrual cycle is associated with the worsening of the patient's Lyme symptoms."

The website is; http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/25/lyme_disease.htm

I'll let you know if I find anything else out! MilMol

Posted by eloise (Member # 128) on :

Thanks again MilMol--I will check out the sight. I know Mercola has interesting things to say--and it is nice to have my observations corroborated. It's really striking how symptoms are exacerbated at that time. --Eloise

Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :

YES! dr barkley-she's the one that spoke at the conference. she was great. did you get new inf? is she still studying this? i'm glad you found her.

Posted by millymollymandy (Member # 7703) on :

Me again,
Just a qick thought... I've just read on another post that Lyme has a three week life cycle, perhaps that is coinciding with our cycles too...not sure- just clutching at straws!
byee MilMol

Posted by bpeck (Member # 3235) on :

MillyM:
This indicates it's a lack of progesterone.
Estrogen is ramping up during those days and progesterone is dropping.
I have alot of non-lyme friends that have benefitted from bioidentical progesterone topical creme used on days 12 thru 26 of the cycle.

MillyM wrote
I am convinced that there is a big link with Lyme and estrogen and progesterone. My symptoms get dramatically worse from about the middle of my cycle for about ten days. Joint pains and burning, really bad ovulation pain, eye problems and tiredness.
I have about a week of feeling Ok'ish after my period.

Posted by breathwork (Member # 567) on :

I had a radical hysterectomy last November.

After finally balancing out some hormone replacement therapy, I am glad to say that I don't get those monthly swings with lyme symptoms any more. It's lovely.

I use bioidentical estrogen and progesterone from a compounding pharmacy. The estrogen is drops under the tongue and the progesterone is in capsules.

I tried the regular patches and oral hormones and it didnt work well for me....Never seemed to get comfortable. The drops are infinitely more manageable. They allow you titrate the best level for you specifically.

Carol Ann

Posted by riversinger (Member # 4851) on :

I think Carol Ann is right, it is very important to get the correct balance for your body. I heard Marylynn Barkeley speak in San Francisco this past February. She is still very actively researching the impact of the sex hormones on the immune system.

What she said, however, is that it is not absolutely predictable, for any one person, whether adding additional hormones will help or hurt. You have to experiment and find out for yourself. We still just don't know enough to predict for sure.

Test to find out what you are low in, and then adjust cautiously, then check to find out what happens. Most of the sex hormones can be converted into other ones. For example, progesterone can be converted to estrogen, and eventually testosterone.

So if you are supplementing, you need to keep an eye on all of them, to make sure it is ending up where you need it, and not where you don't.

There does seem to be a fairly predictable drop in immunity prior to the bleeding at your menses. It doesn't just feel bad, you are actually more vulnerable. That they have been able to prove. And it does seem to be related to estrogen levels.

They just aren't sure yet what it means, or what to do about it.

------------------
Sonoma County Lyme Support
[email protected]

Posted by millymollymandy (Member # 7703) on :

This hormone stuff seems to be a minefield!
I was tested with a saliva test by my specialist and he said they were so low that they were the levels of a women that was well past the menopause!

I then had a blood test done through my GP and he said that they were 'normal' levels. And my FSH was 'normal'.

I know that there is something going on with my hormones because I ovulate for about ten days (extremely painful) and I have other stuff like dryness and PMT.

I've had scans and a laparoscopy which didn't show up anything.

This all started when I stopped taking the pill.....

Posted by Lymester (Member # 5848) on :

I thought it had been that the bacteria thrives with high estrogen levels. The lessening of the estrogen pisses the spirochetes off.

I believe this is why a higher percentage of men tend to have a better lyme recovery rate and woman have a tougher time determining if they are in remission or experiencing continued lyme

Posted by NUTBOBUTT (Member # 7242) on :

Hello Everyone!
I also experience worsening of symptoms about 2 days before menses and then for about 4 days after. Give or take a few days, usually give.

Is there anyone posting here who is on the birth control pill? And if there is do you have this worsening of sx? I know that the bcp can cause worsening of candida but just a thought.