I developed a strange herx (I think) to some herbal killers like andrographis and artemisinin.
I have problems to breathe, as though I have asthma.
Then jitterness, rage come after.
I had strong herxes with Cats claw for weeks/ months, but now it's gone, I can stand high doses, no problem. Herxes were at time different (arthritic mostly). Now arthritis is gone, and I herx just 'neuro' it seems.
I would be sad to abandon it...
Any long term users of andrographis here? The box says 'no long term use' but Buhner suggests months and months of usage...
Selma
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
My experience: Moving/mobilizing other toxins. Most likely caused by microbial die-off. It never fails - in my experience. And only you know what they could be.
Dr. K. recommends in general, with exceptions depending on patient condition, do the med strong - then take a brake - and go back to it later. But sometimes other toxins have to be addressed first or at least alongside the killer med.
Just like one can become allergic to any supplement because it causes the body to have to react and work and struggle, one can become allergic to pharma drugs and one can become allergic to herbal products.
I myself almost automatically turned allergic to all killer substances during week 4. No allergic signs, such as rash or whatever most people expect as being allergic. But blocking my autonomic nervous system totally, which means the body cannot work the debris/toxins through the system. That meant stop.
Take care.
Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
FWIW,to paraphrase brian fallon, m.d., lyme expert, there is alternation of neurologic and arhtritic, and perhaps, other 'bodily systems',signs and symptoms(Sx). when one is especially manifest, the other is at a low-moderate level of intensity, but always present.
so i'd infer that one or more tbds, alone, causing this; medicines,prescriptive, or otc, and/or supps./herbs worsen/ameliorate that induced by tbds.
i certaintly fit this description of alternating arth. and neurological Sx. i have other bodily-system effects as well, while one, or the other of arth.,or neuro., and or other Sx is/are occurring.
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
Hi Gigi, yes, that's what I'm thinking it is, herx linked to probable heavy metals as it slows down after taking about 2 grams of chlorella and a few pills of chitosan.
Funny how the body works, no strong reaction for many days/ weeks, then sudden 'panic'/ attack with the mildest dose.
I'll be visiting the lady you suggested in about 2 weeks time. I'll take the sups for her to analyze (ART, I suppose). I was thinking to give andrographis a break, but was still not sure it was that the main cause of my air hunger attacks.
I think now I start to be pretty sure.
And PQ, 'glad' to hear your herxes alternate too.
I started to wonder if I was imagining things, or if it was the disease progressing, if it was babesiosis coming stronger and so on... Or 'just' developing allergies...
I don't have arthritis anymore (but still at the doorstep, if you know what I mean...), so I think I start to alternate lately in between strong jitterness/ rage/ head symptoms and extreme air hunger/ heart pressure/ palpitations.
Thanks for the answers!
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
Gigi, forgot to say, I went to the dentist to take an X-ray. I have 'only' 5 root canals that they can spot (I suspect I still have one hidden somewhere).
From the 5, 3 are infected (we can SEE infection in the X-ray)!
The only 2 free of infection are the ones that were re-done a year ago (I broke the tooth, the dentist had to re-fill it).
Amazing and awful. I start to seriously think about taking all the stuff out of my mouth, even if the dentist think I'm crazy.
Selma
Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
hardynaka,
i didn't mean alternating herxes, but rather that, while both are always present, my neurological Sx alternates with my arthritic Sx; when the one is most manifest, the other is still there, but at a diminished level of intensity.
Posted by quic (Member # 5262) on :
I almost stopped andrographis because of herxing.
The cramping (feet) that I experienced was very painful.
I pushed through it and arrived at a much better place afterwards.
I only stay on andro. for a month or two at a time. At that time the effect is lessened.
I ususally start it up again later in a couple months and the effect is strong again at the beginning, but less so than the previous time.
I'd say that is probably because of decreased bacterial load and therefore less toxin release during die-off.
- Mike
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
PQ, understood!
Mike, i stopped herxing after having cut andrographis totally.
I read it's also anti protozoan, I'm having tough times with babs, can't stand its symptoms/ herxes.
I'll go back to it when i feel better. Thanks for sharing your experience. I guess you're rugth about toxins too.
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