posted
People might want to check out these two links regarding bismuth, the Bradford Research Institute, and Robert Bradford, the author of the recently posted Townsend Letter's lyme article for Feb/March 2006. Note points #8 and #9 in particular in the following court record: http://www.ksbha.org/boardactions/Documents/toth3.pdf This next site is obviously not a favorite resource among lymies (Stephen Barret's site), but he still has some points to consider about Bradford's credibility in general. http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/cfcm.html
My own LLMD warned me several years ago not to ever use much bismuth as it can build up in the brain.
Posts: 193 | From Virginia | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
I don't know about the efficacy of bismuth in any form. However, it was used in treating syphilis long ago, see previous bismuth threads.
The medical board was more likely responding to the fatality and to the use of anything out of the ordinary. It is OK to fail conventionally in medicine, but not unconventionally. Look at the toxicity issues of radiation and chemotherapy and the failure rates in cancer treatment, why aren't those meds proscribed and the oncologists in the dock? Because the standard of treatment is to fail, and that is acceptable.
I find it ironic that radiation is thought to cause subsequent fatal cancers in a form of cancer "successfully" treated by radiation.
Pick your poison. No, that is not allowed. You have to let someone else pick YOUR poison, without adequate warning about the consequences.
[ 01. April 2006, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: lou ]
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
The Kansas Doctor's case was an unfortunate circumstance, but the fact is that oral pepto bismol is part of the standard of care in the highly touted drug cocktail for ulcer treatment(h pylori).
Based on hubby's experiences I do know that with gastritis (which would most likely be considered less severe than an ulcer) oral bismuth can and does pass through the G.I. tract and is eliminated thru the kidneys with calcium EDTA chelation.
As with any drug or herb everyone has to make their own decisions regarding safety.
As a result of prior mercury toxicity issues (prior to Lyme illness) every new alternative doc hubby sees wants him to be retested under their protocol for heavy metal toxicity.
Last summer during an appointment (and out of the blue) hubby agreed to have this done once again. Big mistake!
Sometimes you do something like take pepto bismol or carafate (an old prescription drug to coat the stomach which has aluminum in it as do most antacids)even when you know they are bad for you. Sometimes the symptoms just have to be relieved the best way you know how.
Anyway, hubby took the standard 2 tbsp dose of pepto bismol liquid 1 or 2 times daily for about a week prior to this doctor's appointment and the chelation heavy metal challenge test.
In the past he had always had magnesium EDTA administered over about 1 1/2 hours along with other chelators -- this doc used calcium EDTA which only takes about 15 minutes -- he had never had this drug before.
He barely stumbled out of the doc's office and I parked the car at a used bookstore after I got him something to drink so he could rest a few minutes before making the 1 1/2 hour trip home.
Came back to the car about 15 minutes later and found him passed out and stiffened up with muscle spasms. Gave him some IV Ativan and IV Glutathione -- he woke up a little about 15 minutes later as I was driving up the road.
I think I stopped 2 more times on the way home to give him more IV Ativan for other "seizure-like episodes". He normally has problems riding in the car, but not this bad -- he didn't really come to until we got back home.
He spent most of the next 2 days in bed -- highly unusual for him. Had some actual seizures -- 1 included loss of bladder control which hadn't happened for over a year. Also deveolped an underarm rash -- left arm only. I took pictures for records. He only ever had a rash one other time during treatment.
The moral of the story is that the test result showed elevated bismuth in his urine and based on the link provided below my opinion is that the combination of the pepto bismol in his body plus the calcium EDTA killed off some Lyme bacteria and caused a major herx.
I was upset with doc and she ended up firing us which was ok except that now new PCP is 4 1/2 hours away. This was an incidence of a doc who in good faith was trying to help hubby but didn't know much about Lyme disease and especially neurological Lyme.
I didn't find the reference below until after hubby had the reaction.
posted
there are many effective forms of bismuth that are taken by mouth with minimal to no adverse effects, peptobismol for one example, if responsibly taken. i do believe that one day there will be an efficacious/safe i.v. form of bismuth, but probably will never be approved for use in the U.S.
despite teh two deaths, and the circumstances underwhich the deaths occurred,both forms of bismuth mentioned in the legal doc. might be safe, even by i.v.; its just that there are too many patently obvious questions(to me) raised by the legal doc. to determine the efficacy,safety and side-effects of the one and/or the other forms of bismuth.
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Be careful about putting much, if any, weight in what you find at quackwatch.com. I do not consider it to be a reliable resource and thus would not be a proponent of picking and choosing what may or may not be accurate.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
There certainly are 2 forces battling...from *extreme* sides.
Barrett...on the "traditional" gov-supported pharm. side and Bradford on the "alternative" side.
These are only TWO men...consider what other doctors/researchers have to say ALSO! The more consensus one sees/reads about, the better.
This is why, I typically TRY to "document" from more than one source. I have become very "skeptical" in my old age...not believing just what ONE person has to say.
And never forget...we are still learning at astronomical speed. Genetic research has, in a way, opened up a can of worms. These "truths" will be/are obvious.
For example...we now know that Bb contains a PKC inhibitor (protein kinase C)...this inhibiotr enzyme causes cell destruction. We know that Bb is "PFK dependent"...phosphofructokinase...another enzyme that is "rate limiting" for glycolysis. Genetic research has shown this...clearly. Can't argue with that!
I believe we need to look at what nutrients the pathogen is taking from us and what nutrients our body is using to fight...
And go from there.
A body in balance has no disease. It's the "rebalancing" that is soooooo darned tricky!
Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
One, first person narrative account of bismuth toxicity:
the book, "Zinc and Other Miconutrients",by Carl Pfeifer,m.d., contains a first person account("phenomenological" account) by a british,male patient who took an oral form of bismuth. this was in the 1940s-1960s. check the book for accuracy. i don't recall teh name of this form of bismnuth.
from what i gathered from his personal account, he developed neurocognitive problems which, largely, if not totally, diminished in intensity over time upon stopping the drug.
given the paucity of self-accounts by people taking bismuth compounds, i'd say this is a must read account.
you can most likely get the book at a used book store, garage sale, or sale at religious organizations, etc. its a paperback.
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