This might be old news to some, but it's important: Lyme & Coinfections are transferred sexually and through breast milk, as well as invitro.
I went to the Hope to Heal Lyme conference last weekend and learned quite a bit. I hadn't realized these facts before. Now we are pretty sure my husband has Lyme disease....and hoping and praying that our son doesn't have it.
Just thought I'd put that out there...I wish I knew this a long time ago!
Susan
Posts: 92 | From Shepherdstown, WV | Registered: Jan 2006
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
Was this mentioned at the conference??
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Could you provide any written information to substantiate this? My husband accompanied me to my LLMD's specifically to find out if this was at all possible. My LLMD told him NO WAY. I've had this horrible feeling my 10 year old may also have it.
We live in Florida which they consider a non-endemic area, so are guessing I got this 35+ years ago when I lived In PA.
My understanding has been, from all I've read and heard, that the jury is still out on this....it has not been proven.
I will be interested in your reply.
Thanks, and have a good evening, Jill
Posts: 203 | From Jacksonville, FLorida | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
My husband and I both went to the conference and heard it from a couple different docs that were speaking. I had never heard it before... that definitively. Needless to say we are a bit upset.
I will look through all my notes and the folder I got from the conference to try to find written proof. And get back to you. I understand how you would want something more substantial then our memory....
Posts: 92 | From Shepherdstown, WV | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I just looked through Dr. B's slides...he mentions quite a bit about it passing from mother to baby and through breastmilk....
I didn't see anything about it being passed sexually in his slides...but just remembered that one of the Drs. said that Syphilis, like Lyme is spirochetal...and Syphilis can be transmitted sexually, so why not Lyme. That makes sense...
In June hopetoheallyme.com will have copies of the conference for sale....they also said that they will be getting copies of the slides up online, at some point.
Take care everyone. Posts: 92 | From Shepherdstown, WV | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Me again....just quickly looked through the slides from the conference....at least 2 of the docs have it mentioned in their slides...the part about it being sexually transmitted. Dr. C's slide says "may be sexually transmitted". So that is a "may", not a "will".
But I think we have a live case in my house....my husband has so many symptoms. I feel like a lamebrain (which I am, because of Lyme) that I hadn't considered it to be Lyme before.
Posts: 92 | From Shepherdstown, WV | Registered: Jan 2006
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
STILL ALL hearsay. GIVE us PROOF. THEN we will have something to go on and have something more concrete before spending all kinds of money for testing that we don't have.
My little 4 year old Granddaughter is living proof that Lyme and maybe Co can be passed on from the mother.
My Daughter was diagnosed with Lyme AFTER her daugther was born. So we had no idea. Little one had a very hard birth, we thought she wasn't going to make it.
She wouldn't breathe and she was only 5lbs 9oz. A couple weeks before her birth the OB GYN said she was about 7 lbs. My daughter had an abnormally small placenta.
OB GYN had no explaination for that.(Lyme perhaps?) Anyway, I totally believe that it can be passed onto an unborn baby.
Oh yea, and my daughter was bit by the tick I picked off her back in Idaho where there are NO reported cases of Lyme.
Therefore, there is no Lyme there, so I have been told by a multitude of Ducks.
-------------------- ICEY Posts: 468 | From Las Vegas NV | Registered: Jun 2005
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Speaking of no Lyme in Idaho, I want to tell the poster from Florida that there is plenty of Lyme here!
Do a search until you find one of the Lyme maps on the Internet. Sorry, I don't have a URL handy. You will be amazed. Florida is not as bad as New England, but it's pretty bad.
I come from an endemic state, Wisconsin, but I was bitten right here in Florida, while pruning a bush, and two weeks later I was down for the count.
Can't you just see a deer bounding through the woods, coming to a screeching halt and saying in deer lingo: "Ok, everybody off. This is the (fill in your state name here) state line, no ticks allowed beyond this point." Ridiculous, but typical of what we can expect from ducks.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
does anyone know how to have "safe sex" if one partner has lyme/coinfections.
will the bugs fit thru a condom?
will it not happen if either partner is on abx?
i know dr j has a protocol for pregnant women to take abx to prevent baby from getting it...anyone know which abx and dosage? but that's thru blood...do abx get into semen to kill the bugs?
i've got so many "young" people in the family...i know this is one reason some of them just cannot accept they are infected. it used to upset me so much that they were in denial...but i can see why that is a really hard thing to face.
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
ICEiam:
You said, "...she was only 5lbs 9oz....My daughter had an abnormally small placenta."
This is the first time I've heard of someone else with this.
My son was 5 lb. 7.5 oz. when born. The placenta was abnormally small.
My son is 20 now, and healthy. I was concerned about brain development when he was born, but apparently the barely adequate nutrition in the womb did not affect his intelligence adversely.
I realize now that I probably already had Lyme when he was born, but I'm still glad that I was able to nurse him. He gained weight and grew well, although he was always "under" the bottom line of the pediatric growth chart.
Carol
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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MEDSCAPE....Clinical Aspects of Lyme Disease Gestational and Congenital Lyme Disease Any infectious disease contracted during pregnancy has the potential to be transmitted to the fetus. Tessa D. Gardner, MD,[10] of Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri, who has recently written an extensive chapter on the subject,[11] discussed the rare conditions of gestational and congenital Lyme disease (borreliosis) and the best approaches (based on limited case reports) to diagnosis and treatment
.........Dr. Gardner has conducted an extensive literature review (through 1998) that turned up 263 cases.[10] She found that 25% resulted in adverse outcomes: 8% resulted in fetal death and 2% in neonatal death. Fifteen percent of the babies were liveborn but were ill or had an abnormality. The effect of antibiotic therapy was dramatic in these patients: with antibiotics, 85% of neonates were normal, while 15% had an adverse outcome. In striking contrast, without antibiotics, only 33% were normal, while 67% had an adverse outcome. The conclusion: Proper, prompt diagnosis and antibiotic therapy are vital for healthy neonates born with congenital Lyme disease.
-------------------- Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will ~ Gandhi Posts: 562 | From Wellsville, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
This subject really seems like a no brainer to me. I am a logical thinker, this only seems logical. If it can be passed through breast milk and in utero, what makes anyone even remotely think it can't be passed on sexually???? It might be a bit more difficult for a woman to give it to a man, but a man leaves a deposit of himself every time.
Lyme gets into every known crook and cranny, our brains, our eyeballs, everywhere, every organ. What would give anyone the idea that it just couldn't possibly manage to get into those particular bodily fluids.
And as has been mentioned already......Lyme is a sphirocete just like Syphillis, sexually transmitted!!!! My husband is sick, I am certain of it. We have been married 30 years, he started showing symptoms about 10 years ago. I figure I exposed him 30 years ago, and like me who was bitten at about 12, it really didn't start showing up till way later, I was in my early 20s, when it really became clear that something was wrong with me. Both of my kids started showing symptoms in their mid teens, but no doubt born with Lyme.
There are countless families who are sick, plenty of husband/wives combos. My mom and dad both have/had it. Figure my mom got it first, she had the bulls eye, and my dad started showing symptoms maybe 10-12 years later and became full blown sick a few years after that with what they thought was Lupus. He had every symptom we have and didn't really fit the primary Lupus criteria. He passed away 2 years ago, way to early at 67, and I would bet my house, that he also had Lyme.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
SO, I guess WHAT you are saying is, since we have had unprotected sex for over 5 years, she already has it for sure, even IF she shows no symptoms???
One thing though, the Lyme Spirochete is NOT "just like" the syphillis bug. It is a distant cousin at best. They are very different. AND are transmitted differently from all that I have read.
Like I said in earlier posts, the "Jury" is still out on this one.
I am anxiously awaiting some concrete "proven" news on this subject.
lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
marnie-cave-the other science minded on here:
PLEASE address prevention...people are NOT going to stop having sex...
how big is a spirokete??? will it fit thru a condom? what about the other bugs?
can either partner take abx to prevent infection...they say after 3 days on abx you can't give anyone strep...
we can't be ostriches about this any longer.
the congenital part really blew me away. i didn't see that coming.
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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shazdancer
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posted
I'd go with common sense, LP. AIDS is a virus, smaller than a bacterium. If a condom can stop a virus, it can certainly stop a bacterium.
HTH, Shaz
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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Jellybelly
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posted
I'd say definetly use a condom. But for so many of us infection was long before we even knew we were sick. It is only NOW that as we look back, we realize that there were plenty of signs.....like I started having Raynaud's at 12, wasn't until I was 40 that I was told that this was often a symptom of autoimmunity. Still didn't know I had Lyme until 1 year ago!!
When you had no idea there is nothing that can be done to change that, it's not your fault. BUT when you know, and that there is a very real potential of spreading this stuff, to me, it becomes another matter. We are sick, that sucks, but do we selfishly decide to give it to others in order to satisfy ourselves. Having children and unprotected sex should be looked at from an angle that most people never have to......do we want to knowingly be responsible for someone else having to live the nightmare we do. No, it probably won't kill them in the next 5 years, but there are plenty of us who are so sick that death seems like a welcome relief.
Thinking that we can wait until there is "proof" before we start protecting our loved ones, seems........
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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LostCityAgent
Unregistered
posted
I was wondering, on this same note, if anyone of you have heard of aspartames effect on lyme patients? I am not a conspiracy person or a natural medicine person as this point. But, I was wondering what everyone things about the combinatory effect in this regard to lyme. Lyme, sex, and aspartame.
lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
well-thanks for the input.
i didn't know aspertame was related to sex or lyme. i just know it gives me a headache and i have stayed away from it for a long time.
now see, i didn't think ketes were bacteria. i thought they were something else...not virus, not protozoa, but not bacteria either...and i had no idea which was bigger...
and jelly...i know. the more i learn about it the more i think i have had it my whole life...and no, we can't feel guilty about what we didn't know, and yes we must be responsible now. but there's something else and i think it is huge and really scarey.
there are soooooo many people walking around with lyme + who knows how many coinfections...and they just think they are getting old...or they hurt something at work...or if they happen to know about lyme they tell you their doc said they didn't have it cuz the test was negative...or 3 weeks of doxy made them better...blah, blah, blah...and these people are all giving blood and having sex (most of em anyway-sorry cave...) and having babies...sooo scarey...and soooo sad.
but like cave says...maybe finding treatments and preventions will end up helping the economy or something....
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Jillybean: Could you provide any written information to substantiate this?
There is a paper entitled "CLINICAL AND IMMUNOLOGICAL EVIDENCE FOR TRANSMISSION OF LYME DISEASE THROUGH INTIMATE HUMAN CONTACT" RB Stricker, DH Moore, EE Winger
I didn't really need a copy of the paper, my husband got CDC, Igenex positive lyme disease from me less than a month after I was bit. He got a rash, I didn't. He has very few symptoms and no coinfections, thus far. I was very ill and had 4 co-infections (having more tests done next week).
-------------------- When I feel blue . . . . . . its time to take another breath Posts: 296 | From East Coast | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: STILL ALL hearsay. GIVE us PROOF. THEN we will have something to go on and have something more concrete before spending all kinds of money for testing that we don't have.
Jim.
Jim - For your purpose . . . Igenex WB IgG $95 should give you a general idea of what you want to know.
-------------------- When I feel blue . . . . . . its time to take another breath Posts: 296 | From East Coast | Registered: Aug 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
I've said some of this before....
Why take a chance with your partner's life?
Is it really wise to wait for symptoms to appear? That's what led most of us to be tested, and by that time, we had a big-time problem to deal with.
$150 + $50 for blood draw gets you the Bowen Q-RiBb test; either the live L-form Bb are there, or they aren't.
If you have Lyme, assume your partner does, also. If you want proof, get them tested.
Even if your partner does nothing but start taking a few freeze-dried garlic caps after every meal, at least they will be doing something to help control the Bb, and they may never have to go through what most of us have.
(Repeat from when my partner was positive for Lyme with few symptoms): "If you find a bomb in your basement, do you ignore it just becuase it isn't ticking or counting down?"
I think we have to use our heads about all of this. I'm not sure our partners can really afford to wait for "proof" of sexual transmission.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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