Date: March 23, 2006 Augmenting Glutathione in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome by Richard A. Van Konynenburg, Ph.D.
Also Available as PDF Document
I have recently become convinced that the genetic predisposition and much of the biochemistry of CFS is similar to that of autism. In autism, researchers associated with the DAN! (Defeat Autism Now!) project have found that as a result of a combination of genetic variations and environmental factors there are blocks in the sulfur metabolism (including the methylation cycle and/or the transsulfuration pathway) in many autistic children.
They have further found that lifting these blocks by means of certain supplements allows the glutathione level to come up. I refer you to the book "Autism: Effective Biomedical Treatments," by Jon Pangborn and Sydney Baker (Sept. 2005, www.autismresearchinstitute.com) for the details of these treatments. At present, I suspect that many PWCs will be unable to raise their glutathione levels if these blocks are not first lifted.
Provided such blocks are not present or are not dominant in a given case, there are several ways to augment one's glutathione in CFS. If intestinal dysbiosis is present, it is a good idea to correct this first, because some of the oral supplements used to build glutathione will feed yeasts and unhelpful bacteria.
Also, if leaky gut syndrome is present, this should also be corrected before building glutathione, because it will place a high demand on glutathione in the liver for detoxing substances that enter the bloodstream via the leaky gut. It is also a good idea to proceed slowly at first if glutathione has been depleted for an extended period of time (months to years), because toxins and infections may have been allowed to build up in the absence of sufficient glutathione to keep them under control.
If glutathione is then brought up rapidly, the mobilization of toxins can produce a Jarisch Herxheimer reaction, which is an exacerbation of symptoms that can make a person feel very unpleasant. Also, see the particular comments about mercury below.
Here are some approaches for building glutathione (Note that names of products, laboratories and suppliers are given for information only, not as recommendations. There may be others not mentioned that are satisfactory):
1. Oral supplements, such as the "nondenatured" or "native" whey protein products (e.g. ImmunoPro Rx or RenewPro or The True Whey), the "undenatured" whey protein isolates (e.g. Immunocal, ImuPlus, etc.), such as from http://www.immunesupport.com/ or http://www.needs.com/ or http://www.iherb.com/, the fermented goat-milk-based version of whey protein, Goatein, available from http://www.gardenoflifeusa.com, amino acid precursors including N-acetylcysteine, glycine and glutamic acid (such as from Jeff Clark at http://www.cfsn.com/), N-acetylcysteine together with dietary protein, or oral reduced glutathione supplements per se, both available from health food stores. One supplier of oral reduced glutathione is http://www.theranaturals.com/
A relatively new type of oral glutathione supplement is liposomal glutathione, which is reduced glutathione encapsulated in tiny liposomes made from soy-based phosphatidylcholine. There are currently three of these products on the market of which I am aware:
Essential GSH (http://www.essentialgsh.com/), Lipoceutical Glutathione (http://www.gshnow.com/), and LipoFlow Glutathione (http://www.lipoflow.com/) The liposomal form is relatively expensive, but more of the glutathione is absorbed intact and appears to be carried to various cells of the body encapsulated in the liposomes.
No prescription is required for the above oral supplements.
ImmunoPro Rx, RenewPro and The True Whey are actually "native" or "nondenatured," being made from whey that has not been heated to high temperatures or treated with acid as in cheese making, which the "undenatured" products' starting material have undergone. The former have more cysteine present as actual cysteine per se rather than the oxidized form cystine, and cysteine is more useable by the liver for making glutathione, probably particularly in a person who is depleted in glutathione.
The "undenatured" and "nondenatured" whey protein products can be problematical for those with allergies to whey proteins (or perhaps to casein, which may be present in small quantities in the whey protein products), and the goat-milk based version Goatein may be helpful in such cases, even though the fermentation process likely converts much of the cysteine to cystine.
The amino acid precursors should not present problems of allergic reactions, but should be taken with high quality dietary protein to ensure that they are used effectively and that if mercury is present, its transport into the brain is not encouraged. Some PWCs do not tolerate glutamic acid well. In such cases, glutamine (or better yet, a product called Glutimmune, available from http://www.wellwisdom.com/) can be substituted for the glutamic acid, and taken together with N-acetylcysteine and glycine.
The reduced glutathione supplements are a more expensive approach than the whey or NAC-based approaches. Free reduced glutathione appears to be largely broken down in the gut into amino acids, so there is probably not an advantage to taking regular capsules of reduced glutathione per se except for the cells of the intestines themselves. Liposomal glutathione is likely not significantly broken down in the gut and is able to enter cells in its intact form more easily. Liposomal glutathione may actually be absorbed through the wall of the stomach and not even continue on into the lumen of the gut.
Oral supplements are probably the best way to raise the glutathione level in the liver, since the liver gets first access to oral supplements via the portal vein, and it is normally the main producer of glutathione in the body and an exporter of glutathione to the systemic blood and the bile. The liver is probably not able to take glutathione from the blood for its own use, so approaches that put glutathione per se into the blood probably are not very helpful in directly building glutathione in the liver.
If there is a high level of mercury in the body, such as can occur if glutathione has been low for an extended period of time (months to years) and the person has silver amalgam fillings in their teeth or they have consumed a significant amount of large, predatory fish, including tuna, or they are close to an environmental source of mercury, then caution should be exercised by limiting the dosages of oral supplements that supply amino acids to the liver for making glutathione. There are two reasons for this:
The first is that mercury can be moved into the brain from other parts of the body by cysteine or N-acetylcysteine if the dosages are too high. Dr. David Quig of Doctors Data Laboratories recommends limiting the dosage of NAC to 300 mg per day and taking it with a high protein diet if heavy metals are elevated. The ability of NAC to transport mercury into the brain was confirmed in rats in recent experiments by Aposhian et al.
The second reason is that mercury can block the utilization of cysteine, and if cysteine rises too high, it can act as a neurotoxin. (This last is also the reason L-cysteine is not recommended as a supplement for building glutathione.) It's a good idea to measure the blood plasma level of cysteine periodically when building glutathione, to make sure it is not rising too high.
If elevated mercury is suspected, it is a good idea to test for mercury and detox it carefully if it is present, with the help of a doctor experienced in doing this. The best test is a collection of urine for 6 hours, preceded by a challenge with the chelator DMSA (succimer).
A very small dosage of DMSA should be tried first, to make sure there is not an allergic reaction to it. A test of this type is offered by http://www.doctorsdata.com. It is important to build glutathione using one of the methods described below that puts it directly into the blood, before doing the DMSA-challenged test, because otherwise glutathione may be lowered too low by the test, since DMSA can bind glutathione, and the results can be unpleasant.
If there is elevated mercury, it may also be wise to further build glutathione using one of the approaches below, which put glutathione per se into the blood, rather than one of the oral approaches that help the liver to make glutathione. Most of glutathione that is put directly into the blood is removed by the kidneys, and the kidneys are also one of the main target organs for mercury toxicity, so having more glutathione present there when chelating mercury is likely to be an advantage.
2. Intramuscular injections, as pioneered by Dr. S in Houston. She injects 100 mg of glutathione with 1 mg of ATP, intramuscularly, 2 times per week. One source of IM glutathione is McGuff Compounding Pharmacy in Santa Ana, CA (phone: (877)444-1133, fax: (877)444-1155). This probably benefits most the muscle into which it is injected, but it also has systemic effects, and intramuscular injection tends to slow the release of glutathione somewhat into the rest of the body.
3. Intravenous infusions, and particularly fast I.V. pushes, as advocated and used by Dr. Patricia Kane and her co-authors of The Detoxx Book (www.detoxxbook.com) as part of their overall detox protocol. The book says they do an I.V. push over 3 to 5 minutes starting with 1,500 mg of glutathione in 12 cc of sterile water for adults, and going as high as 2,500 mg in 15 cc of sterile water, one to two times per week for 3 to 6 months or more. They suggest Wellness Health and Pharmaceuticals in Birmingham, AL as the source for injectable reduced glutathione (phone: (800)227-2627, fax: (205)879-6551).
Intravenous glutathione injections are becoming more prevalent within the CFS treatment community. I think they were pioneered in the U.S. by Dr. David Perlmutter (after initial work in Italy by Dr. Secchi) for the treatment of Parkinson's disease, but they are being used in other disorders as well.
Several cell types are able to extract glutathione from the blood, break it down, import the pieces, and resynthesize it inside the cell, via the gamma glutamyl cycle. Other types of cells can import glutathione intact from the blood. This approach requires a prescription and repeated visits to a doctor's office, which are difficult for those who are seriously disabled, and it is relatively expensive to get these injections repeatedly.
4. Glutathione suppositories from a compounding pharmacy. One source is Hopewell Pharmacy in New Jersey (phone: (800)792-6670). One person told me they use suppositories containing 250 mg of glutathione. Another told me that they are also available in 500 mg doses from http://www.wellnesshealth.com.
I don't know how much gets into the blood with this method, but I suspect that it is substantial. This is a relatively inexpensive way to put glutathione into the blood. I think a prescription is required for this form, but then PWCs can apply them at the rate they choose, and visits to the doctor's office are not necessary.
5. Glutathione nasal spray. I've heard of people formulating their own by mixing glutathione solution from compounding pharmacies with saline solution. I don't know how much glutathione is absorbed into the blood this way, but I suspect it is less than with the suppositories. It's important to keep the solution refrigerated and to use it soon after it is mixed, because the reduced glutathione undergoes chemical changes over time in solution.
6. Glutathione transdermal skin creams (available from http://www.kirkmanlabs.com) (no prescription required). Lotions are also sold. These may have a strong smell. A stabilized reduced glutathione transdermal gel is available from http://www.leesilsby.com. I don't know how much of the glutathione gets into the blood with these products, but they are used quite a bit for autistic children.
7. Glutathione sublingual troches from a compounding pharmacy. One source is Lionville Natural Pharmacy in Lionville, PA (phone: (877)363-7474, fax: (610)363-5707) These are made in orange and blueberry flavors, and are composed of a very firm gel. There are also hard troches in orange flavor. I don't know how much gets into the blood. Dr. S in Florida uses these troches.
8. Nebulizer application to the lungs, as pioneered by Dr. Buhl et al. at the NIH and as described by Dr. Julian Whitaker in his newsletter Health and Healing. Dr. Buhl used 600 mg in a few milliliters of water per application. Dr. Whitaker uses 300 mg, two times per day, applied over 5 to 10 minutes with a nebulizer, available from a medical supply company. He recommends Wellness Health and Pharmaceuticals (numbers given above) and California Pharmacy and Compounding Center (http://www.californiapharmacy.com) as sources for the glutathione.
Nebulized glutathione is being used for a variety of lung diseases now, including chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), cystic fibrosis, interstitial pulmonary fibrosis and multiple chemical sensitivity.
There are reports that blood levels of glutathione rise when this method is used. Valerie Hudson, who has helped to pioneer use of aerosol glutathione in cystic fibrosis, suggests L-Glutathione Plus capsules from http://www.theranaturals.com/, mixed with boiled water, applied with a nebulizer. No prescription is required for the capsules, or to buy a nebulizer on the internet. Valerie suggests one capsule containing 200 mg of reduced glutathione mixed into 3 or 4 ml of boiled water.
An important feature of this source of glutathione (available without a prescription) is that it is buffered with sodium bicarbonate. Clark Bishop, M.D., wrote me that this buffering is important, because if the pH is too acid, it can lead to bronchospasm when nebulizing. People who are subject to asthmatic attacks should not use nebulized glutathione, as it can result in bronchospasm, thought to be caused by the sulfites that form when glutathione is mixed with water.
It's also very important in nebulizing to use pure, boiled or sterile water, and a clean nebulizer in order to prevent introducing infections or insoluble respirable particulates into the lungs. Because of these issues, nebulizing is best done under the supervision of a doctor or a respiratory therapist.
9. Take turmeric (the yellow spice in mustard and in food eaten in India). The curcumin in this spice has been shown to stimulate glutathione production.
Some people are using more than one of these modes simultaneously. My current opinion is that it is a good idea first to deal with possible blocks in the sulfur metabolism, as discussed above, then to start at low dosages of glutathione or precursors or protein supplements, to see how well they are tolerated, and then work up as they are tolerated.
I think that a combination of an oral approach to build the liver's ability to make glutathione combined with one or more of the approaches that puts intact glutathione into the blood is probably the optimum way to build glutathione, once the sulfur metabolism blocks, if present, have been lifted.
It is a good idea to measure the glutathione level before starting to try to build glutathione to see if it is low, and then, if it is low, to measure again after trying to build it for a few months, to see how your approach is working.
There are several ways to do this. Probably the cheapest is to measure the red blood cell glutathione. One lab that offers this test is Immunosciences Lab (www.immuno-sci-lab.com). Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab (www.gsdl.com) offers an assessment of the glutathione detoxification pathway as well as plasma reduced glutathione in its Comprehensive Detox panel.
An analysis of urinary organic acids by either http://www.greatplainslaboratory.comorhttp://www.metametrix.com will give an indirect assessment of glutathione status, particularly in the skeletal muscles (via citric acid and alpha ketoglutaric acid measurements) and the kidneys (via pyroglutamic acid aka 5-oxo-proline measurement).
A measurement of glutathione function in the lymphocytes is offered by http://www.spectracell.com. I favor the red blood cell glutathione test, because it is a direct measurement of intracellular glutathione. The Spectracell test is also very useful, but the glutathione result requires some interpretation in cases where the enzymes that use glutathione have low activities, such as because of genetic polymorphisms. In those cases, glutathione can be reported as high, while total antioxidant activity is low, which seems contradictory, but both can be correct.
It's also a good idea to measure the blood plasma level of cysteine periodically when building glutathione, to make sure it is not rising too high. If a person is high in mercury, this can block the pathways that use cysteine, and it can build up.
Rich Van Konynenburg
Reprinted with Expressed Permission of Richard A. Van Konynenburg, Futher distribution is not allow without the Author's Permission
A word on testing -- hubby has used all of the labs mentioned and done all but one of these specific tests -- he has been to many ACAM (American College of Alternative Medicine)docs and each has their own favorite lab.
In my opinion, the cheapest and most useful test for someone who wanted to know about their glutathione levels would be the Comprehensive Detox Panel form Great Smokies Lab at http://www.gsdl.com
The 2nd most useful test is a genetic test and thus not covered by most insurance companies -- think the price has gone up substantially from when it was 1st introduced and when hubby did it -- also from Great Smokies -- The Genetic Detox Profile.
Great Plains and Meta Metrix tests while useful would not generally be ordered just for the glutathione status check alone -- more expensive tests also measure other organic acids.
Have not done the Immuno Sciences test, but it only gives a one time measurement of glutathione which I would think could fluctuate significantly throughout the day depending on the toxin level in the body.
This is just my personal opinion, but the theory behind SpectraCell Labs sounds good, but at least for hubby the test results were basically worthless and did not correlate with results from any of the other labs -- Meta Metrix test was actually done on the same day.
Bea Seibert
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You probably would not believe the mess hubby got into the 1st time he had IV glutathione. To be honest that is the day he went out of work on disability 5 years ago.
It was a year before we let another doc talk us into trying it again. Now he uses it 4 or 5 times a week for the last 3 years since the PICC line went in.
If you had a bad reaction most likely it meant you had a very high toxic load and the dose of glutathione you got was not sufficient to bind to all the toxins that were released from the liver. At least that is my opinion.
The glutathione helps hubby overall, but it also frequently causes increased tremors/seizure-like episodes which require IV Ativan.
Actually when things when the very worst and hubby was having what I think were actual seizures with loss of consciousness the glutathione was the only thing that would wake him up.
This is not medical advice, but just my personal opinion based on experiences with hubby.
The Great Smokies Detox test will show if the glutathione pathway is functioning properly or if it is overstressed.
Glutathione is very sensitive to oxidation and the source is very important. The IV form is expensive, but does work quickly.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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GiGi
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Chlorella dramatically increases reduced glutathion - just one of the many, many benefits of this fabulous super nutrient. It is packed with everything a toxic sick body needs.
"CHLORELLA (pyrenoidosa or vulgaris)
HEALING BENEFITS:
Chlorella has multiple health inducing effects. Below are just a few of the published effects that have been demonstrated.
Antiviral (especially effective against the cytomegaly virus and herpes)
Toxin binding (mucopolysaccaride membrane) for all known toxic metals, environmental toxins, such as dioxin and others
Repairs and activates the body's detoxification functions
Dramatically increases reduced glutathion
Sporopollein is as effective as choestyramin in binding neurotoxins and more effective in binding toxic metals than any other natural substance
Various chlorella peptides restore coeruloplasmin and metallothionin
Lipids (12.4%) alpha and gamma linoleic acid help to balance the increased intake of fish oil during detoxification programs and are necessary for many functions, including formation of their peroxisomes.
Methylcobalamin is food for the nervous system. It restores damaged neurons and has its own detoxifying effect.
Chlorella Growth Factor - helps the body detoxify itself in a yet not understood and profound way. It appears that over millins of years chlorella has developed specific detoxifying proteins and peptides for every existing toxic metal.
The porphyrins in chlorophyll have their own strong metal-binding effect. Chlorophyll also activates the PPAR-receptor on the nucleus of the cell which is responsible for the transcription of DNA and coding the formation of the peroxisomes (see fish oil), opening of the cell wall (unknown mechanism) which is necessary for all detoxification procedures.
Super nutrient - with a 50-60% amino acid content it is an ideal nutrient for vegetarians. Methylcobalamin - the most easily absorbed and utilized form of B12, B6, minerals, chlorophyll, beta carotene, etc.
Immune system strengthening
Restores Bowel flora
Digestive aid (bulking agent)
Alkalinizing agent (important for patients with malignancies)
RECOMMENDED DOSAGE:
Start the standard adult maintenance dosage for the 6-24 months active detox: 1 gram (approx. 4 tablets) 3-4 times a day
Incorporate a more active detox by increasing the Chlorella dose to 3 grams (approximately 12 tablets) whenever Cilantro is being taken. This must be taken one week intermittently, followed by 2-3 weeks on the above adult maintenance dose (i.e. 1 week on, 2-3 weeks on the standard maintenance program).
Chlorella must be taken 30 minutes before the main meals and at bedtime.
This way chlorella is exactly in that portion of the small intestine where the bile squirts into the gut at the beginning of the meal, carrying with it toxic metals and other toxic waste. These are bound by the chlorella cell wall and carried out via the digestive tract.
When amalgam fillings are removed, the higher dose should be given for 2 days before and 2-5 days after the procedure (the more fillings are removed, the longer the higher dose should be given).
If you take Vitamin C during your detox program, take it as far away from Chlorella as possible. Vitamin C is the only substance known so far that can knock mercury off its tight bind in the chlorella membrane.
SIDE EFFECTS:
Most side effects reflect the toxic effect of the mobilized metals which are shuttled through the organism. This problem is instantly avoided by significantly increasing the chlorella dosage, - not by reducing it. Small chlorella doses mobilize more metals than are bound in the gut; large chlorella doses bind more toxins than are mobilized.
Some people have problems digesting the cell membrane of chlorella. It is hard and sophisticated. The industry has developed several ways by cracking the membrane. However, mechanical destruction of the membrane leads to subsequent oxidative damage to some of the most precious ingredients (such as chlorella's fatti acids).
Biopure uses a patented process by which stiff structural elements of the cell wall are cracked by using sound waves (similar to the process called lithotripsy), keeps the extra cellular chlorella barrier intact, thus protecting all of the cell's organelles.
Chlorella can also be made bio-available by dissolving the cell wall enzymatically. Biopure produces are proprietary mix of sound cracked chlorella with specific enzymes, which kick into action once chlorella has arrived in the alkaline section of the small intestine. This product is availabe as BioPure Enzyme Potentiated Chlorella or EPC.
Another solution for people with digestive problems is Chlorella vulgaris. Chlorella vulgaris has a thinner cell wall and is therefore better tolerated by people with digestive problems."
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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riversinger
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Gigi, I know you feel chlorella can do a lot of things, and for some it does help. But it never seemed to impact my detox status, even when taking Dr. Ks recommended brand. So, if it helps, that is great, but if not, there are other things to try.
LymeDACnow, I don't think you can be allergic to glutathione, it is something the body produces. Maybe there is a particular supplemental form you can't tolerate? I have heard many can't tolerate some of the IV and lipoceutical brands, due to various ingrediants, or that they can't tolerate the whey protein.
Maybe you could try one of the other forms suggested? Maybe the chlorella Gigi is suggesting would work for you?
GiGi
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Just thought I would throw this in.
These are a couple of comments as told to attendees at a recent Dr. K. seminar on Lyme and the heavy metal detox needed for all chronic Lyme patients:
He was showing an illustration of cell structures.
"Glutathione ALONE is worthless as a detox agent. It does one thing beautifully -- it moves mercury from the inside of the cell to the outside of the cell. But two hours later it moves back into the cell. The next day you come back with your glutathione, it moves outside the cell, in the afternoon it moves back into the cell. All day long. It is very clear - no one has ever shown it to me any different.
People claim seeing all these wonderful detox things just by giving glutathione. It is not true, it is not happening.
It is not in the literature. There is no science behind it.
But if you use glutathione and have another agent waiting here that can grab it here from the connective tissue and move it into the blood stream, then you have got a winner. For that I still use DMPS.........etc. etc."
In general, he gives phospholipids first (IV), then glutathione.
Take care.
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riversinger
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Using glutathione for people who have extreme difficulty with detoxing, for example, medication intolerance, is a very different thing than using glutahione to chelate heavy metals.
Glutathione is a natural substance in the body, which some people have genetic problems producing in sufficient quantities for just ordinary detox purposes. For these people, and many others, supplementing glutathione status can be very helpful in normalizing the system.
Using it to remove heavy metals is a whole different issue. If you notice, in the article above, he does not recomment it as a chelator. He simply recommends that if glutathione staus is not sufficient, people may have difficulties with chelation.
GiGi
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Riversinger, I do not think that we have a glutathione that is specific for heavy metals and another one for the other neurotoxins we have in our body. I should have used the world "neurotoxins" instead of heavy metals because that is in essence what we are plaqued with.
When treating Lyme Disease, Dr. K. treats the whole body, the eco system, based on the fact that most chronic patients are toxic from many neurotoxins (heavy metals, biotoxins (from microbial infections), xenobiotics (man-made environmental toxins, food preservatives, excitotoxins and cosmetics). Glutathione plays a role in all if used properly and timely and chlorella can play a big instrument in all as well if used for the right purpose.
Neurotoxins require different agents to detox. No detox agent works for all neurotoxins. Chlorella is a mop-up agent to prevent reabsorption.
Chlorella is not a chelating agent.
I don't know what you were trying to detox and therefore don't know why it did not work for you.
I am sorry it did not help you. It is one of the mainstays in Dr. K.'s practice for the chronically ill. There are other mop-up agents that can be used (cholestyramine, betasitosterol, pectin, charcoal) but they do not have any of the other benefits as chlorella has.
Hope you are doing well.
I am writing this in a hurry, hope I make sense.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Wellness Pharmacy in Alabama has been an excellent source for our compounded meds.
Keep up the good work! Love your HLA/Mold Warriors post. Still trying to take it all in.
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ArtistDi
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Just a word on allergies to glutathione--the thing is that glutathione is comprised of sulfur. If one is quite ill, one can be sensitive to sulfur, especially if liver is overtaxed. Sulfur helps one to detox.
This was told to me by a practitioner of alternative medicine.
Nice post, River.
[ 22. April 2006, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: ArtistDi ]
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Marnie
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There is a spray form...cystic fibrosis patients use it.
quote:Originally posted by ArtistDi: Just a word on allergies to glutathione--the thing is that glutathione is comprised of sulfur. If one is quite ill, one can be sensitive to sulfur, especially if liver is overtaxed. Sulfur helps to one to detox.
This was to told to me by a practitioner of alterntive medicine.
Nice post, River.
-------------------- "Courage is the mastery of fear-not the absence of it."-Mark Twain
Still trying hard to be brave...Deb Posts: 82 | From Upstate NY | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ArtistDi: Just a word on allergies to glutathione--the thing is that glutathione is comprised of sulfur. If one is quite ill, one can be sensitive to sulfur, especially if liver is overtaxed. Sulfur helps to one to detox.
This was to told to me by a practitioner of alterntive medicine.
Nice post, River.
Sorry about above (too anxious to reply I guess)
Anyway, thanks ArtistDi, you ststed pretty much what I was going to have a hard time explaining.
My reaction following my one and only IV dose was that of HUGE hives like a belt around my abdomin and also inner areas and back of thighs, and some mild respiratory difficulty.
I went to my LLMD as a walk in, he graciously saw me and stated, "Leave it to you to have an allergy to it (Glutathione)". He went on to explain that some people with Sulfur allergies (which I do have a long standing Sulfa drug allergy) will have a problem.
Prior to the IV dose I had been on the liquid form (by mouth) for a couple of months but developed a lot of GI problems. Also when thinking about it later it occurred to me that I had had several episodes of having hives during that time, once very bad after eating part of a "blooming onion". I found out later that onions contain a large amount of sulfur (as do eggs) I generally eat very little of these things, very infrequently. I think the IV dose was the final insult but even if I continued with just the PO liquid eventually the allergy would have become apparent.
So any thoughts on what one is to do if one is allergic to sulfur, needs to detox, and needs sulfur to do that?
-------------------- "Courage is the mastery of fear-not the absence of it."-Mark Twain
Still trying hard to be brave...Deb Posts: 82 | From Upstate NY | Registered: Oct 2003
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ArtistDi
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What you could do is sauna detox and try some milk thistle tea, so you could dilute it and still get some to the liver.
You could also do some castor oil hot packs over the liver area. Take a piece of flannel and soak it with the oil and place it on your liver area. You can put a piece of wax paper over it and use a hot pack (even 2 cups rice in a sock, heat for two minutes) over the this.
Posts: 1572 | From Hatfield, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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riversinger
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quote:originally posted by LymeDACnow
So any thoughts on what one is to do if one is allergic to sulfur, needs to detox, and needs sulfur to do that?
There is a new genetic profile done by Great Smokies, I think it is called Genomics. It is done to show defects in the detox pathways. A lot of people are finding help for this kind of issue when they look at what the genetic defects are.
It often means you have to correct some other part of the detox pathway first. There are various defects that can show up, so it depends on what is happening for you, what is needed, but some I have heard of is increased methylcobalamine, folic acid, TMG, and others.
This is pretty new. There is a lot of talk about it on the Yahoo group CFSExperimental. The autism groups are also using this info. Amy Yasko and Garry Gordon in particular are doing a lot in this field.
riversinger
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quote:Originally posted by GiGi: Riversinger, I do not think that we have a glutathione that is specific for heavy metals and another one for the other neurotoxins we have in our body. I should have used the world "neurotoxins" instead of heavy metals because that is in essence what we are plaqued with.
Of course you are correct that there is not different glutathione in the body. However, if a person is severely deficient in gluatathione, a normal substance in the body, it may have a different effect to supplement it, then if you are using large amounts simply to encourage detox, in someone who already has sufficient levels.
That was my point.
If it is OK for a healthy body to have it, maybe it isn't a bad idea to supplement people who are deficient, as part of a whole treatment program.
quote:
Neurotoxins require different agents to detox. No detox agent works for all neurotoxins. Chlorella is a mop-up agent to prevent reabsorption.
Chlorella is not a chelating agent.
I don't know what you were trying to detox and therefore don't know why it did not work for you.
As I have mentioned to you in the past, chlorella did not work for me to detox neurotoxins from Lyme or mold. I posted this a few times when you have made claims for chlorella as a neurotoxin binding agent.
It may work for some people, but it has not worked for me. Even though I used Dr. Ks brand, in the amount recommended. When I started using CSM, the difference in binding strength was very obvious.
Also, you posted here that chlorella raises glutathione. It has not done so for me. Again, it may do so for others. I think people are very individual. I'm simply saying, though it may be a good nutritional supplement, chlorella might not do everything claimed for it, at least not for everyone.
For those that it doesn't work for, there are other options, like some of the ideas in this article.
quote: Hope you are doing well.
Thank you, yes, I am!
I appreciate your input from Dr. K's teaching. We need all of the information, with so many different needs.
posted
ArtistDi and Riversinger...thanks so much for your input...I couldn't ask for more than something to try AND something to consider having done!
Any other suggestions/explainations are always most welcome...
-------------------- "Courage is the mastery of fear-not the absence of it."-Mark Twain
Still trying hard to be brave...Deb Posts: 82 | From Upstate NY | Registered: Oct 2003
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
The topic is: How to increase glutathione levels. I interpreted this not as how to supplement glutathione levels.
Glutathione production, for instance, is also dependent on glycine, an amino acid. If anyone is for instance petrochemical toxic/toxic from plastics, the glycine levels begin to plummet.
Dr. K. finds plastic toxicity in almost every patient today. Breast milk not excepted. What happens then to the glutathione production the body needs??
Of course you can supplement glutathione for ever and ever as many have tried, but a much better approach is to alleviate the toxicity. Glycine levels in plasma amino acid tests is in a general decline, and a very steep decline of glycine levels, secondarily serine levels, and tertiary threonine. In order to make glycine you need threonine; in order to make serine, you need glycine. In order to make glutathione, you need glycine. It's much more involved than I myself understand. But I have learned this much.
From serine, you have phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylcholine, choline and a number of other neurotransmitters; DNA, RNA, hemoglobin, all different things are beginning the be depleted, glutathione production is very dependent on glycine. Glycine is also important as a neuro-inhibitory amino acid. It helps the brain when a seizure occurs, When a seizure occurs, the brain gets flooded with glycine in order to protect it and dampen the effect.
Wouldn't it make more sense to get rid of the toxins that affect the glycine, etc.??
This is a whole chain of events - all brought about to a large degree by certain toxicities. Dr. K.'s approach is -- to try to solve the problems by cleaning up the toxins in the body. Addressing the cause of the lacking glutathione is the approach that I took, or rather, he chose for me. That does not mean you cannot use some form of supplementing via nasal, etc., but supplementing does not solve the problem longterm, and often does not work satisfactorily.
Riversinger, yes, Mold is a neurotoxin, but it cannot be solved with chlorella. Dr. K. addresses mold by determining the type of mold - ours was treated with Amphotericin B for several months. I posted on it recently at length.
Chlorella with all it contains is a good bridge to keep things moving in the right direction. It does not have to be Dr. K. brand; rather it has to be a clean chlorella that is certain to have been grown in a clean environment, because it picks up substances from its environment.
Nothing I have ever posted works for everyone, because everyone brings a different problem to the table or deals with a different situation. Someone thinks of getting rid of Lyme neurotoxins while in reality the problem is a totally different toxin.
If everything were just black or white, it would be wonderful. It just isn't.
And now, let's hope the sun shines again tomorrow. I literally chopped a truckload full of overgrowing branches today and need some chlorella for energy!
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I too wish it was a one size fits all problem.
Hubby has been tested to death with amino acid and neurotransmitter tests and the list goes on.
Half the problem seems to be that with him his G.I. never gets to the point that he can absorb the supplements to fix the supply problem or to detox whatever (be it antibiotics, heavy metals, molds -- all those tests have been done as well).
The docs say treat the problem -- Lyme and tickborne illnesses -- and not the symptoms. Sounds good in theory, but doesn't work so good in reality.
If I sound discouraged that is because I am. Does anyone know a really really good G.I. doc who is Lyme literate ?-- I don't think they exist, but would love to be proved wrong.
I know hubby is not the only one who has continual G.I. symptoms that confuse the picture so much you just don't know what to do next.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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