This is topic Pro-Biotics vs Yogurt? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.


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Posted by BostonLyme2005 (Member # 7680) on :
 
Hi,

I eat Stonyfield yogurt which has six (6) active cultures in it, and this stuff is thick, and I eat a lot of it each day.

I have not til this day, taking any pro's.

What is the difference between both?

What is the best pro, and the best price?

You guys are the balls!
 

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Posted by Jill E. (Member # 9121) on :
 
Hi Rob,

Culturelle was the brand that a nutritionist I used to see had recommended because it had passed some Consumer Report tests (or something like that) as actually having the amount of probiotics in it that they claim. But then a Lyme naturopath I used to see switched me to Great Earth Vitamins Ultra Duo Dophilus. She's had chronic Lyme for years and about half her patients are Lyme patients, and she insists this brand seems to stand up to the antibiotics. So far, I've had very few GI problems on antibiotics.

Lately, I've been reading raves about Theralac which you can get on the internet. It's supposed to be acid-proof to survive the stomach. I know another Lyme patient that swears by the Jarrow brand that's refrigerated and found in the health food stores. So who knows.

Like you, I really like Stoneyfield yogurt. But someone on one of the Celiac Disease email lists I belong to did a comparison of several yogurts and calculated that the Nancy's brand (found in health food stores) had more millions of units of probiotics for the price than any other yogurt or probiotic supplement. I haven't tried that brand myself.

So I haven't answered your question - just thrown a bunch of options into the mix. Maybe we can get a majority vote among everyone who posts.

Jill
 

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Posted by alliebridge (Member # 9103) on :
 
I like PB8 as a probiotic. I buy it off of vitamin shoppe online but you may possibly find it cheaper somewhere else. As long as I stay away from refined carbs(sugar, flour, white rice, etc.), I don't get any GI distress/yeast symptoms.

I like it better than eating yogurt because I don't always feel like eating yogurt and also I think you get more of the good stuff from the capsules. I could be wrong, but to me, the capsules seem more concentrated.
 

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Posted by erpatti (Member # 9055) on :
 
I eat lots of kefir , the flavored is pretty good
 

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Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
I use PB8. I buy mine at www.vitacost.com Very cheap there!!! [1/2 price]

Yogurt and store bought kefir [especially flavored] contain ALOT of sugar, so they are counterproductive for those on long term abx.
 

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Posted by micul (Member # 6314) on :
 
There is the argument that yogurt helps the probiotics to stick and work better, but there is the problem of the sugar. It is better to make your own with organic milk. That way you know that it is fresh, and you can also reduce the sugar content by using whole milk and mixing a pint of half and half with it. This brings the sugar down to 10 g per cup. You also don't have to eat a whole cup of it a day. A few tablespoons of fresh homemade yogurt can exceed the probiotic count of supplements.
 

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Posted by lymednva (Member # 9098) on :
 
My LLMD recommended Theralac, and while it's expensive, after a month you can cut back to only every other day, so it's a bit more reasonable.

The info that came with the Theralac says the probiotics in yogurt are not even in the same ball park as the levels found in their product.

I only started on it a couple of days ago, so I can't really speak too much about it yet, but the man who answered the phone was quite knowledgeable about the needs of Lymies.
 

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Posted by hatsnscarfs (Member # 6562) on :
 
Yogurt just isn't enough. Maybe yogurt is OK for people who aren't on abx but for us we need to replace what the abx kill everyday. I've used Primal Defense, Primadophilus Reuteri & now Theralac. Theralac is in a class of it's own. I took it every day for several weeks and it got the yeast under control far better than anything else had. Now I alternate it with the Primadophilus which costs less (The price of Theralac has come down a bit). I take it before bed. Some days I take Primal Defense with lunch too.

My advice, get some Theralac and something less expensive & alternate. The sooner the better. Don't wait until you have an out of control problem which you will surely develop if you don't take action soon.

Note: Don;t confuse Theralac with Threelac (has ingredients lymies should avoid). You want Theralac: www.theralac.com
hatsnscarfs
 

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Posted by BostonLyme2005 (Member # 7680) on :
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the info!
 

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Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
 
You likely cannot get what you need from yogurt - even Stonyfield Farms - which is one of the better ones. I get 4-5 different probiotics and then cycle them - several per day so that I don't always take the sane one product. You can see my favorites on the Probiotics link on my web site. Be well.
 

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Posted by timaca (Member # 6911) on :
 
The only disconcerting thing is that in spite of taking good probiotics: Theralac daily, PB8, Primadolphilus, etc, I STILL got C. difficle! UGH!

Well, I should count my blessings....I don't seem to have a yeast infection too!

Timaca
 

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Posted by beachcomber (Member # 5320) on :
 
Dairy, in general, is not great for yeast or other gut issues. The lactose in it is basically a sugar. Sugar feeds yeast. Although the bacteria is beneficial, you might be better off eliminating dairy altogether and taking a high quality, refrigerated (live) probiotic, like Ultra Flora Plus by Metagenix or similar.

There are 2 yogurts with no sugar, Elani & Chatham, as far as I know. Still, I no longer eat any dairy because it always made yeast worse. It is not easily digestible & is mucos causing.

JMO
 

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Posted by bpeck (Member # 3235) on :
 
There's a difference between pro biotics and the natural flora in the digestive tract.

The natural flora of over 300 species are full-time residents -
alot of probiotics are not full time residents..
some are though- and the question becomes- do the ones you ingest as probiotics actuall colonize?

Some probiotics- especially the new trade marked product from Dannon (Activia) - are not permanent residents - meaning they don't colonize and take up permanent residence. They're dumped in for other reasons (as in Activia- it'll move your bowels so definitely work if you're constipated or bloated - but these bugs get moved out with the stool)
Initially, I was shocked when I found out that you harbour about 4 lbs of gut bugs. They're everywhere- on us and in us.

People also don't understand - or beleive it's true- that the reason people get sore throats, ear infections, UTIs, etc - is becuase you have this natural flor in the eyes, nose, ear wax, throat, lungs, etc- so while on long term abx- it's not just the flora in the GI tract that gets disrupted (thus making it possible for opportunistic species to bloom).

It's an ecosystem in there.
But friend can become foe if the immune system is compromised.

Barb

Gut flora disruption is indicated in Crohn's -
whether it's cause of the effect of- I don't know,

REFERENCE:
Crohn's disease shown to be related to reduced diversity in intestinal flora
Press kit item. 14/02/2006

Crohn's disease shown to be related to reduced diversity in intestinal flora
Press Kit for the International Agricultural Show - Microflora of the digestive tract


A team of INRA researchers has found that less complex bacterial populations make up the intestinal flora of patients with Crohn's disease, a disorder which causes chronic inflammation of the digestive tract and whose causes are unknown. For the first time, researchers used metagenomics, a novel approach, to study the human intestinal flora. This technique makes it possible to globally analyse the major bacterial genomes of the digestive tract. The results of the study have been published in the February 2006 issue of the journal "Gut".
 

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Posted by micul (Member # 6314) on :
 
I'm posting part of an article on probiotics below. There are about 10 pages to it if you want to read all of it at:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2003_Feb-March/ai_97994369

"Selection criteria for probiotic supplements
Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, Feb-March, 2003 by Dr. S.K. Dash
All probiotic products are not alike and do not have similar nutritional and therapeutic values. The name probiotic does not mean anything unless it contains the right strain, in the right amount, in the right formulation and in the right condition (viable) for the intended use.

For this reason one needs to know the strain, its viability, implantation criteria, and other features and health benefits.

Strain Selection

Lactic acid bacteria have a long history of safe use in dairy products. However, some probiotic supplements now contain bacteria, which have no record of safe use in humans or even animals. There are instances of probiotic supplements containing soil bacteria that are not normal inhabitants of the human gastrointestinal tract. These cultures may potentially be pathogenic. It is imperative to select bacteria for incorporation in probiotic supplements that are on the GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) list. For example, Lactobacillus acidophilus species and some Bifidobacterium species are considered GRAS. Safe, proven cultures are your first and most important criteria for selection.

Any new bacterial culture that has no history of prior safe use in humans should be subject to toxicological studies prior to incorporation in any probiotic supplements. The bacterial strains used in a superior probiotic supplement should play an important role in:


* Colonization within the intestinal, respiratory and urogenital tracts

* Cholesterol metabolism

* Inhibiting carcinogenesis, directly or indirectly, by stimulation of the immune system

* The metabolism of lactose, the absorption of calcium and the synthesis of vitamins

* Reduction of yeast and vaginal infection

* Constipation and diarrheal diseases

* Gastritis and ulcers

* Acne and skin problems

Additionally, the culture should adhere to the intestinal walls and proliferate (which capsules may not do) . The probiotic strain must be proven to survive stomach acids in live human subjects. And of course, it should produce natural antibiotics, lactic acid and hydrogen peroxide and inhibit pathogenic bacteria such as:

Bacillus subtilis

Serratia marcescens

Bacillus cereus

Proteus vulgaris

Bacillus stearothermophilus

Escherichia coli

Streptococcus faecalis

Salmonella typhosa

Salmonella schottmuelleri

Streptococcus faecalis var liquifaciens

Shigella dysenteriae

Streptococcus lactis

Shigella paradysenteriae

Lactobacillus lactis

Pseudomonas fluorescens

Lactobacillus casei

Pseudomonas aeruginosa"
 

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Posted by BostonLyme2005 (Member # 7680) on :
 
I have found some wonderful yogurt today while I was shopping...

It is called Cascade fresh. Fat Free. It contains eight(8)live active cultures in it and no sugar added.

Yummy!
 

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Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
 
We have come a long way from that 'opportunistic overgrowth' that barb is describing by taking all live culture probiotics..

Real Kefir (made at home with real grains) and just the cost of raw or organic milk.

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html#what-is-kefir

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/Makekefir.html

Real fermented foods like real sauerkraut (GiGi printed a recipe), fermented brews like Kombucha tea, and eating
PRE-biotic foods (I posted a link here somewhere)

Also, taking virgin coconut oil (to combat bad gut overgrowth and much more)

I had three strains of the bad guys cultured via pcr, and God knows how many more..
plus bad guys that were not yeast related.

We have seen major changes across the board with this.

I think live is best, and I think yoghurt is not strong enough..
plus the foods (prebiotic) that your own body makes into the right probiotics tend to 'stick' over time.
It takes time, but you do start feeling better shortly when this balance starts to improve.

Make food your medicine, you have to eat anyway!

Mo
 

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Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by bpeck:

Some probiotics- especially the new trade marked product from Dannon (Activia) - are not permanent residents - meaning they don't colonize and take up permanent residence. They're dumped in for other reasons (as in Activia- it'll move your bowels so definitely work if you're constipated or bloated - but these bugs get moved out with the stool)

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