Because nothing is perfect in the world of medicine, I experiment with new treatment choices, and record their efficiency.
For some strange reason, Zithromax and Mepron don't work for me, but, when I add 200mg of Plaquenil, it does work.
My regamine had been IV Zithromax 500 mg, 2 teaspoons Mepron, 200 mg Plaquenil, 1 tablet Bactrim, 500 Tindamax, and followed by IV levaquin 750 mg.
That combo worked, and it worked well for me, but when I changed it for the past two days to exclude the 200mg Plaquenil, it stopped working as well as it did. I added it again, and the combo works again.
Any theories on why this happened??
Also, I have a lot of IV clindamyacin, Does anyone think that adding Clindamyacin to the mix would be a good edition to kill the Babsia as soon as possible, Or am I just setting myself up for creating a more resistant strain of Babesia?
It would seem my Babesia is already resistant to Mepron and Zithromax, for the life of me I can't figure out why Plaquenil would stop that resistance in the bud, if indeed that's whats going on, but I'd like to hear suggestions of others who have experience with Babesia.
Posted by NP40 (Member # 6711) on :
Hey Lymescience,
Wow, you're certainly taking enough meds. You must herx through the roof ? The levaquin is for bartonella, the other meds would hit lyme and babs.
Plaquenil does contain some of the properties of mepron. It also aids other abx in deeper penetration.
My son did 1000mg of IV zith daily along with mepron and artemisinin for 3 weeks in his initial babs treatment. He had trouble tolerating the mepron so the doc then prescribed the continued IV zith, plaquenil and artemisinin. It cleared his babs in a couple of months. It worked very well for us.
I believe Dr. B now recommends including artemisinin in all his babs treatments. I know for a fact that artemisinin was a great help in ridding him of babs.
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Wow! 6 meds -- you must have both a cast iron stomach and a very forgiving liver.
Stupid question, maybe, but I have read several of your other posts and I am wondering -- when you say combo does not work without Plaquenil -- do you mean you don't herx or you just don't feel like you are getting better?
1st time hubby took Quinine & Clindamycin combo for babs he immediately felt better (about 75%) for first 2 months and then just seemed to lose ground 2nd 2 months.
This time around he is herxing -- 1 month into protocol and maybe gradually improving.
There have been some prior discussions as to whether Babesia can go dormant and hide out in the liver.
My guess is that possibly the Plaquenil changes the ph of the G.I. and allows more of the other drugs to be absorbed.
Bea Seibert
Posted by ksparks (Member # 8098) on :
I noticed when I added in 400mg artemesinin twice a day my night sweats disappeared (I was also on IV clindamycin, IV zith and mepron). When I stopped it- they came back, but not as drenching as before. I am done with my babs treatment, but am continuing the artemesinin becasue I feel like it really helped me- with minimal side effects.
Posted by LYMESCIENCE (Member # 9259) on :
You hit the nail on the head, my point was about feeling better, as in my Lyme symptoms going away.
When I add the plaquenil, my lyme symptoms and bab symptoms get much better, with the other way around I just kinda "herx".
Maybe the anti inflamatory properties of the Plaquenil are what I am feeling when I don't experience the Herx.
I just simply improve.
Your right about me having an Iron Clad liver and Stomach. I'm very lucky to have gotten this disease young, and to have been in such good physical shape prior to getting the disease (I was a college basketball player), but that didn't stop me from getting Lyme really bad.
Thanks for all the comments and help. I think I'll add the Artem.
Posted by Beverly (Member # 1271) on :
Hi Lymescience,
I am also in treatment for Babesia, the combo of Zithromax, Malarone and Plaquenil have worked good for me. I did try to stop plaquenil at one point and found the same thing happened to me, it worked better together.
I am not one IV Zithromax though, just pills and I do find that Bactrim has helped also, but I am not taking them together right now.
I have not tried Artemisinin yet.
My son is also in treatment for Babesia and is doing well on Malarone and Zithromax alone, so I guess we are all different.
Good luck to you.
Posted by liz28 (Member # 4946) on :
Plaquenil, also called hydroxychloroquine, is a malaria preventative that people in tropical areas take once a week to keep from catching the disease from mosquitos. It is not used very much, as there are other drugs whose protection is far superior, such as malarone and doxycycline. While Google is a vast archive and there may be something in there about using plaquenil as a cure for malaria, everything I've found so far says plaquenil is only used as a preventative.
Plaquenil is related to chloroquine, however, which was the strongest malaria treatment in the world for decades. Unfortunately, malaria has developed resistance to it in many areas, which is why there is so much excitement about artemisinin now. It is not out of line to see a change in symptoms on plaquenil, but as someone who took it for two years and developed babesia drug resistance, I can assure you it can also cause you problems.
Since this is an open forum, it is worth noting that taking arbitrary IV antibiotics on and off without medical supervision is another surefire way to create drug resistance. Levaquin is too strong to take with most other drugs, it is only for bartonella, it can wreck your tendons, stomach and brain, and it usually is taken in pill form. Tindamax is used on the cyst form of Lyme, and would not be taken with levaquin, mepron, or IV zithromax unless you are suicidal.
If you are really interested in taking the most powerful drugs on earth for babesia, and you have a real, honest-to-God doctor working on this with you, take a look at quinine and clindamycin for a very short term, like seven days at the absolute maximum, and then follow up with primaquine for three weeks. Quinine will start to cause hearing damage within three or four days, and can permanently damage your eyes and heart, so it must be monitored by an actual doctor who knows what s/he is doing. If you take primaquine, it is absolutely crucial that you take a G6PD deficiency test first, as the drug must be taken at a reduced dosage.
If you are treating babesia, it is very important that you go beyond Lymenet and read malaria websites.
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
liz28 & lymescience,
Medical literature cases which describe Babesia treatment with Quinine use 650mg Quinine 3 times daily with IV Clindamycin (forget exact dose). This is for patients who are hospitalized.
What hubby takes is (260mg Quinine or 520mg if tolerated daily)and 150mg Clindamycin 2 or 3 times daily. Takes this for 10 days. Then takes Amoxycillin 500mg 2 times daily with Flagyl at 62.5mg when tolerated for 10 days and then repeats cycles.
The 10 day break is to prevent the side-effects related to hearing loss etc.
I personally can't see how anyone's liver could clear out all the dead red blood cells at those higher doses of Quinine. Most case studies I have read show the parasite levels dropping, but the liver enzymes skyrocketing and frequently the patient dies. It just makes more sense to me to go slow and steady so as to not overwhelm the body.
In a life-threatening situation with extremely high parasite levels unfortunately the hospital is in charge and the patient has very little say so in actual treatment decisions.
For the rest of us it is up to us to educate ourselves and make informed decisions in consultation with a trusted doc.