This is topic Coffee....how bad is it for us? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.


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Posted by LC (Member # 7070) on :
 
I am up to 2 - 3 cups per day.

When I started treatment two years ago, I quit totally.

I've slowly fallen off the wagon and have settled in to a nice little habit.

I really look forward to it to get me through the work day and class two nights a week.

I even add half and half (and a little sugar).

Yeast, I know. I don't have any outward yeast symptoms, but I know it's an issue after 2yrs oral abx.

Any one feel different or better once quitting coffee/ caffeine?

LC
 

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Posted by Lisianthus (Member # 6631) on :
 
I drink coffee all the time, I actually think its good for you (and I'm sure someone will come along to dissagree with me )

But, coffee is the highest antioxident you can get in a liquid form. There was a study published about this. The only thing about coffee that is not good is the caffine, but I wouldn't drink decaf because of how they process it. (Its just not natural, and they use alot of chemicals to remove the caffine.)

I would just limit it to 1 - 2 cups a day. And I also drink mine with real cane sugar(very small amount) and organic half & half.

Lisi
 

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Posted by brentb (Member # 6899) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Lisianthus:

I would just limit it to 1 - 2 cups a day. And I also drink mine with real cane sugar(very small amount)
Lisi

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Me too. Theres a study in which coffee proved to help the liver recover from alcholism and such. I drink mine black but with my tea I need something sweet. I like raw honey. It's a great natural abx and it supposedly does not cause the problems that refined sugars do.
 

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Posted by Michelle M (Member # 7200) on :
 
Two cups of french press in the morning.

As a single working mother, I have to for the most part carry on as if I don't have lyme disease. Get up at 5:30 a.m., do chores, feed horse, dogs, cats, get kid up, ready, go to work.

Skip the coffee? Unthinkable.

Mornings= Coffee
Afternoon=Provigil.

There you go.

Michelle
 

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Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
 
the caffeine in coffee is supposed to be a "methyl group donor".

a methyl group refers to one carbon atom to which 3 atoms of hydrogen are attached, and, in turn, this group is attached to some molecule which, in this case, happens to be caffeine. teh group is part of the structure of teh caffeine molecule.

while i momentarily forget the exact reason, purpose, mechanism(s), of methyl group donation,one purpose of having enough methyl group donors in one's diet, may have something to with mitigating against,perhaps, cancer(?) development.

one can be under or over methylated, according to a paperback book i perused while standing in that long line at the pharmacy.

Either case of a long time, under, or over methylated, conduces to medical problems of one sort or another.

the same is said for other atoms, or groups of atoms.

carl sagan(r.i.p) would have said that theres "billions and billions" of processes in the body that utilize the process of methylation.

methylation is just one such process in the body. there are "billions and billions" of cellular processes that donate, transfer,and otherwise process singular atoms, and entire groups of atoms.

whether, or not, the methylation by caffeine occurs in the appropriate bodily compartment(1) wherein one is "undermethylated" is another question.

I would conjecture(w/o proof) that we need intake of other foods/supps. to "get methylated" in those bodily/cellular compartments where caffeine may NOT methylate what we need methylated.

drink vinegar, you'll get acetylated by the acetic acid in vinegar.

take butyrate, and you'll get "butylated."

i don't know if the chemist would say its a correct description of a chemical reaction, but a group of us once got slightly "ethylated" during brunch having shared some wine and cheese somewhere in napa valley following a hot-air balloon ride.


1) (compartment, meaning some organ of a cell; e.g.: nucleus of the cell, nuclear membrane of the cell; ribosome; golgi apparatus; microtubule; endoplasmic reticulum,membrane of teh cell, etc.)
 

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Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
 
Coffee makes me jittery,dizzy & nauseated. It can give me temporary energy but then I tend to "crash"

I wish I could drink it again. Maybe someday...sigh
 

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Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
 
one radio M.Doc. "indicted" some of the organic acids in coffee as being problematic.

coffee seems to help me.

sometime after having been bitten, tea seems to be problematic for me. the effect is not dramatic but distinct, and subtle. it seems to affect my thyroid functioning.

when i drink regular tea, about 20-60min later, i'll "feel the prescence" of my lower left neck underneath. the thyroid is just under this. behavior is slightly affected, as well.
 

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Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
 
on this thread, i posted a study of caffeine on two groups of people, regular coffee drinkers vs non-coffee drinkers who drank coffee for the study.

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=044514
 

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Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
 
a recent study concluded that caffeine makes us more likely to believe things that we would not otherwise believe,and would be more circumspect about, or should be more critical of.
this is a paraphrase of what i heard recently on the news. best to verify this by a search.
 

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Posted by meg (Member # 22) on :
 
I drink coffee, I love it....have a hard time waking up without it.....trying to quit slowly. I get headaches when I do quit.

BUT, I do think it makes our bodies too acidic to help us rid ourselves of lyme.

I'm convinced lyme loves it too.
 

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Posted by LYMESCIENCE (Member # 9259) on :
 
Yeah, this is a tough question that is best answered in the particulars of each patient.

For some people, if Lyme is causing symptoms of POTS, maybe coffee wouldn't be so bad as it raises blood pressure.

For those who have Lyme vasculitis, it may not be a good thing because caffie is a vasodilator AND a vasocontrictor. Depending on where you have vasulitis, this may help or hurt.

Also, coffee may be bad for those who have decreased blood flow to the brain as demonstrated through SPEC or PET as its well known that coffee reduces blood flow to the brain by 30 percent.

The point is that if it works for you, and doesn't make you feel sick, then just remember to take a nap everynow and then and not let coffee fool you regarding Lyme, on the other hand, if coffee makes you sick because you have cerbral vasculitis (like me), then maybe something else would be better. Adderall works great for me, and it doesn't have that same issue regarding blood flow to the brain like caffine.

Cheers to Java if it helps! and if it doesn't, then shame on you for getting Lyme in the first place
 

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Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
 
Caffeine and calcium look to go hand in hand.

without affecting Ca2+ discharge caused by carbachol, caffeine, or thapsigargin.

PMID: 15789621

Looks like caffeine causes calcium ``discharge''.

Ca then reacts with acids to produce hydrogen to raise the pH...become more alkaline? Thus the ``antioxidant'' effect?

The abdominal adipose tissue weight in the caffeine group was also significantly lower than that in the control group, the serum cholesterol and triglyceride levels in the caffeine group also being significantly lower than the levels in the control group. The study results suggest that caffeine could contribute most to preventing arteriosclerotic diseases.

PMID: 16717413

Background:A combination of tyrosine, capsaicin, catechines and caffeine may stimulate the sympathetic nervous system and promote satiety, lipolysis and thermogenesis

PMID: 16652130

Tyrosine...there it is again!!!

RESULTS: Intracellular delivery of ester induced oscillatory increases of [Ca(2+)](C) and calcium-activated currents, inhibited acutely by caffeine (20 mmol/L).

PMID: 16530519

Methionine and cysteine are the only sulfur-containing proteinogenic amino acids. The methionine derivative S-adenosyl methionine (SAM) serves as a methyl donor.

Methionine plays a role in cysteine, carnitine and taurine synthesis by the transsulfuration pathway, lecithin production, the synthesis of phosphatidylcholine and other phospholipids. Improper conversion of methionine can lead to atherosclerosis.

Methionine is a chelating agent.
Methionine is one of only two amino acids encoded by a single codon (AUG) in the standard genetic code (tryptophan, encoded by UGG, is the other).

The codon AUG is also significant, in that it carries the "Start" message for a ribosome to begin protein translation from mRNA. As a consequence, methionine is incorporated into the N-terminal position of all proteins in eukaryotes and archaea during translation, although it is usually removed by post-translational modification. Methionine can also occur at other positions in the protein.

Here for more info.:

http://www.med.uiuc.edu/m1/
biochemistry/TA%20reviews/
phospholipids.htm

http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/
fulltext/meth1-4.html

http://www.biblelife.org/amino.htm

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/
refshelf/substances_view/
1,1525,10084,00.html

Undermethylated/overmethylated...what one needs (Great website):

www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/condition.php?condition=Depression
 

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Posted by liz28 (Member # 4946) on :
 
Coffee is inspiration to get better, and was recently cited by the FDA as a major food group that gives us healthy energy and verve. It also keeps one's character pleasant and sociable, and gives one something to talk about in public besides yeast control, bicillin injections, and toxic tooth fillings.

[ 25. July 2006, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: liz28 ]
 

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Posted by minoucat (Member # 5175) on :
 
I do fine on a moderate intake of coffee (usually 1 cup of really good coffee a day, sometimes two). I would love to tell you that I'm pleasant, sociable, and have verve, but the truth is coffee just keeps me passably human and helps me get through the day without seriously annoying the dog.

During my final days of work, as I became increasingly exhausted, I drank a ton of coffee throughout the day to keep going. It helped over the short run and probably kept me at work for another 6 months, but I'm pretty sure it contributed to my severe adrenal exhaustion (which took over a year to recover from).

Coffee, like anything else, is a bad thing in excess. The trick is to know what is excessive for you -- I have healthy friends who cannot even drink one cup a day, and from what my doctor and naturopath say, anything over 3 cups is seriously ODing.
 

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Posted by hatsnscarfs (Member # 6562) on :
 
When I first read Dr Bs guidelines recommending giving up caffeine I said absolutely no way. Coffee was one of my favorite things. I also was not a morning person and woke up in a fog everyday. I would need to sit quietly and sip a few cups of coffee to get myself going.

6 months into my Lyme journey I went on tetracycline. It immediately made coffee taste like turpentine. It made tea taste sweet (as if there was sugar in it. After 3 days on tetra I quit coffee because it was simply undrinkable. Amazingly I had no withdrawal.

I decided to keep my caffeine intake low so instead of coffee I started my day with a few cups of detox tea. I sometimes have green tea in the afternoon. I avoid having caffeine in the morning.

Here's what happened when I quit coffee:
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No more headaches

No more headaches if I sleep late

I wake up feeling fine (not groggy or non-functional like before)

Energy much more stable throughout the day

Less cravings

Breasts not lumpy or tender anymore

Don't get up as many times during the night

______________________________________________

I never would have believed I could wake up feeling good, especially without coffee.

Now I'm off tetra and coffee doesn't taste like turpentine anymore. I haven't gone back to it though except as an occasional treat. I have only a little, a half cup or some watered down, or a single espresso. I don't want to get back into a regular caffeine habit.

The 2nd time I went on tetra it did not do the turpentine thing!

hatsnscarfs
 

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Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
I just read that it is the most heavily sprayed and full of chemicals of any crop ... ever.

That will keep me away!
 

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Posted by minoucat (Member # 5175) on :
 
Well, yes, and that may be the source of a lot of the problems people have with coffee. But there are organic, fair-trade, shade grown brands that don't cost more than their pesticided bretheren and taste wonderful. Thanksgiving Coffee does a couple of different organic lines that are really excellent.
 

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Posted by TheCrimeOfLyme (Member # 4019) on :
 
There is an ingredient in coffee .. that Im going to spell all wrong cause I stink and its early in the am.. theopyhyllinine. See, bad spelling, eh?

Anyways, this wonderful ingredient can slowly cause caffeine toxicity.

Im such a hypocrite- I drink it again. I stop, I start, I stop I start. I need my coffee. In two months, when my shoulder/face/head/neck/jaw pain starts coming back, I'll stop it.

I dealt with those symptoms for YEARS thinking it was lyme- wrong. It was coffee. And here I sit with my morning Java.

If you still lived in PA, I'd come have coffee with ya. I say drink it if you want it. Life is short. If it bothers you, nix it. ( In my case, I had no clue the coffee was doing that, until I realized I was spiking in symptom after I drank it).. so I figured

what the hay, I'll stop drinking it. No more pain. ( two weeks of withdrawal heck though)
 

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Posted by HaplyCarlessdave (Member # 413) on :
 
It's all a balance. The middle way. The only thing you shold always do is, to avidly avoid always doing the same thing. The only thing you can say for sure is, there's nothing you can say for sure (except perhaps this). There's an exception to every rule (even this one, for here it is...).
Moderation.
Except when necessary....
Thus, coffee is good (especially if it's organic and fairly traded! (-- there's a whole nother can of worms...)). But like all drugs, you have to be careful with it!
For me the optimal level for tea is much higher than that for coffee. Especially with lyme. From my experience I would recommend tea over coffee for those fighting lyme. Green tea, in particular. (it's much lower in caffeine, too).

DaveS
 

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Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
 
When lyme was real bad in me everytime I had coffie the tip of my nose would get semi numb why could be lots of factors so I quit for a year tried again same thing the next time I tried it I was fine but I hold myself to one cup in the morning and & then after a while I quit for a while.I notice when I quit I get headaches for about a week? interesting huh. Funny thing is I dont even like the {{{after Taste of it}}} blah
 

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Posted by HEATHERKISS (Member # 6789) on :
 
Dear fellow coffe drinkers,

I gave up caffine for over a year and three months. Coffee has been slowly sneaking into my diet.

Boy did I miss that zing. I need it and feel better with it for now.

The reason I had given it up was so that my body would be able to better absorb the antibiotics and vitamins and etc.

If you can do it (give up coffee) if only for a while........ you probably should.
 

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Posted by Lymied (Member # 6704) on :
 
Coffee is most heavily sprayed crop there is - it is laden in pesticides if you drink conventional.

I do think coffee is probably good at detoxifying the liver...I only drink Organic however.
 

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Posted by wrotek (Member # 5354) on :
 
TheCrimeOfLyme wrote

quote:

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I need my coffee. In two months, when my shoulder/face/head/neck/jaw pain starts coming back, I'll stop it.

I dealt with those symptoms for YEARS thinking it was lyme- wrong. It was coffee. And here I sit with my morning Java.

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quote:

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_____________________________________________
No more headaches

No more headaches if I sleep late

I wake up feeling fine (not groggy or non-functional like before)

Energy much more stable throughout the day

Less cravings

Breasts not lumpy or tender anymore

Don't get up as many times during the night

______________________________________________

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