posted
I have recently changed LLMDs and was given a homeopathic remedy called Borrelia remedy by Deseret Biologicals. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with it.
The package states that somewhere between the 2nd and 4th dose there will be a worsening of symptoms(herx?). would love to know what might be in store for me as I just swallowed my 2nd dose.
Posts: 132 | From SE Pa | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Hi there! I am also on that same remedy . .I am on vial # 7. I experienced some fatigue, headache , and joint stuff. . . . Worse than normal. I also have had REAllY bad insomina problems and I am still waking up alomst every 3 hours. I also took the same remedy for Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever . . . Anyhow . . I have felt much of a difference . .But feel free to write with any questions! Blessings, Heather
Posts: 74 | From Florida | Registered: May 2006
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posted
hopefully insomnia won't be too bad for me as I already have problems with insomnia when I am on tinidazole. Thankfully after tomorrow, I will have a 10 day break from tini.
will keep you all posted.
anyone else????
Posts: 132 | From SE Pa | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Does anyone know what kind of outcomes people on this are experiencing? Does the company have any research or data on this remedy? What does the doctor say about what to expect in terms of recovery or healing?
Also, can it be used along with RX meds and/or herbal meds, or does it have to be taken alone?
Sounds interesting, I'd like to learn more.
Posts: 873 | From WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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TerryK
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posted
heathnicole wrote: Vital 1 - 200x vial 2- 100x Vital 3- 60x So they start it out strong and it is less diulted.
Just want to mention that 200X is stronger than 60X but 200X is actually *more* dilute than 60X meaning that there is less of the original substance in 200X than there is in 60X but 200X is considered a stronger homeopathic remedy.
I've been using homeopathics for years and I also see a doctor who practices classic homeopathy and one typically starts out with a weaker remedy and works their way up to the stronger more dilute remedy. This means one would normally start out with Vial 3, the 60X, since it is the "weaker" remedy and work their way up to the stronger remedy.
It seems odd to me that one does not start to get symptoms until they get to the less dilute remedy. I would normally expect to be hit with symptoms with the stronger remedies, much more so than with the weaker remedies. Was there any explanation as to why the treatment is done this way?
In case anyone is wondering, there is no concern that there would be any spirochetes or cysts left in the 60X strength according to some research that I did awhile back.
Here is why: The laws of chemistry state that there is a limit to the dilution that can be made without losing the original substance altogether. This limit, which is related to Avogadro's number (6.023 X 1023), corresponds to homeopathic potencies of 12C or 24X.
I don't know what is in the higher numbered vials but I would not want to take anything less dilute than a 24X without first being absolutely sure that there is no possibility of live spirochetes or cysts being included in the mixture.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
heathnicole is correct about the dosing. You do start out with 200x and every 3 days the dosing changes:100x, 60x, all the way down to 3x. It is my understanding there is NO live borrelia in the dose.
I have only done the 200x and now 100x. Didn't notice a whole lot with the 200x except 24hrs later was sleepy tired, not fatigued.
the 100x did something within 30 minutes. chest pain and a few eye twitches--something that usually happens the first week I change abx.
Note: I am on abx now and was told to continue them.
It is my understanding that the more dilute a homeopathic remedy is, i.e. 200x is MORE dilute than 100x, the more powerful it is.
My doc will explain more about this at my next visit at the end of the month, especially given what my experiences will be. I will be happy to keep posting with info--good or bad, if there is interest.
My doc has said that in her experience when abx don't kick it easily we MUST try other modes to restore health. Since I have recently changed docs I will find out more what that might be.
She has told me, though, that she prefers to use a different product to help the liver and not milk thistle. This is due to the fact that milk thistle can interfere either by increasing bloodstream doses or weaking doses depending on the drug of some abx and other drugs.
Otherwise, most of what she told me is similar to Dr B's protocols.
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TerryK
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gardenoflyme wrote: It is my understanding that the more dilute a homeopathic remedy is, i.e. 200x is MORE dilute than 100x, the more powerful it is.
Yes, that is correct. I am really wondering why you would be getting a more powerful remedy first because as I said, that is not the way homeopathy is typically done. If you find out, I would really appreciate knowing.
I think homeopathic remedies are very powerful and I'd normally be the first to take them but again, I would want to know *exactly* how this product is made and what safety measures they use to ensure that there are no viable cysts or spirochetes. My understanding is that Bb converts to cysts when threatened and cysts can survive high heat and all kinds of insults and still survive. The thought of inadvertantly getting infected with another strain etc. is sobering.
Please do keep us posted and if you find out anything about the product's safety besides just the doctor saying it's safe, then I'd be very thankful to hear it. Terry Just to clarify, I am not a doctor but I have been taking homeopathic remedies and studying homeopathy for years.
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TerryK
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In addition to a slightly more conventional LLMD, I also see a doctor who specializes in pain management, medical acupunction and homeopathy. He has set me up with a number of remedies including the "Lym" from deseret biologicals, and the Borellia 1M tubes.
So far I'm not cured or anything, but there are many people who swear by his methods. I'm just an outlier . I can assert however, that this stuff is pretty safe and doesn't seem to bring on herxes. Also, this physician believes that you can continue to do any conventional or LLMD treatments in conjunction with the homeopathic remedies, which lends credibility to the doctor himself as well as the fact that homeopathy truly works on a different level.
To the best of my understanding, homeopathic remedies contain the "information", or sort of the "blueprints" for the organisms. There are not any actual organisms involved. Yes, it doesn't quite fit with conventional physics, but since its information rather than matter, it doesn't pose any threat. Please note that my understanding is somewhat limited on the mechanisms of treatment, but I can say I've had no negative reactions or felt like I was simply wasting my money.
And I'm quite the skeptic, normally Posts: 690 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
In answer to the milk thistle substitute, I am to take Himalaya Liver Care which can be bought at any good health food store. It runs about $20 for a bottle. Will be starting it this weekend. Hope this answers that question.
Posts: 132 | From SE Pa | Registered: May 2006
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TerryK
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Blackstone wrote: To the best of my understanding, homeopathic remedies contain the "information", or sort of the "blueprints" for the organisms. There are not any actual organisms involved.
As I mentioned in my earlier message, this is only true when you reach strengths of 12C or 24X. Prior to that, there will be some of the original substance left in the product.
I did some research on this a few years ago for a group of people who needed to know how much plant material remained in various homeopathic strengths. I called homeopathic manufacturers, pharmacists, regulatory agencies and talked to my own homeopathic doctor as well as accessed other knowledgable resources. Here is partially what I found as far as original matter left in a product.
It won't flow really well because I am cutting and pasting area's that apply to our discussion rather than all of my research. Also, please remember that this discussion applies to plants and not bacteria. Since homeopathic's are made in a precise way, I assume that bacteria would be made similarly but that is only an assumption because I have not researched it.
Homeopathic strengths are typically noted in X's or C's. In the decimal scale, indicated as X, the dilution factor is 1:10. In the centimal scale, indicated as C, the substance is diluted 1:100.
Anything designated as 24X or 12C and above will theoretically contain no molecules of the active ingredient. The laws of chemistry state that there is a limit to the dilution that can be made without losing the original substance altogether. This limit, which is related to Avogadro's number (6.023 X 1023), corresponds to homeopathic potencies of 12C or 24X.
The various strengths of homeopathic medications (2X, 3X etc.) start from a mother tincture which is then diluted with a carrier substance such as water or alcohol. Plant mother tinctures are generally made so as to extract as much of the plant as possible. They are often referred to as herbal extracts.
I contacted numerous manufacturers and pharmacists to determine the strength designation of the mother tincture. An overwhelming majority stated that their mother tincture (a very strong herbal extract) is noted as 1X with a 2X being 1 drop of mother tincture to 9 drops of water or alcohol and so on.
The following information will give you an idea of the ratio between the mother tincture and the carrier substance (water or alcohol) for various strengths. 1X = mother tincture (a strong herbal extract) 2X = 1 drop of mother tincture to 9 drops water/alcohol
This is approximately 1/6th tsp or .82 ml of water/alcohol added to 1 drop mother tincture.
3X = 1 drop mother tincture to 99 drops water/alcohol
This is approximately 1 2/3 tsp or 8.21 ml of water/alcohol added to 1 drop mother tincture.
4X = 1 drop mother tincture to 999 drops water/alcohol
This is approximately 2.2 oz or 62.51 ml of water/alcohol added to 1 drop mother tincture.
5X = 1 drop mother tincture to 9,999 water/alcohol
This is approximately 22 oz or 625.1 ml of water/alcohol added to 1 drop mother tincture.
6X = 1 drop mother tincture to 99,999 water/alcohol
This is approximately 220 oz or 6250.86 ml of water/alcohol added to 1 drop mother tincture.
7X = 1 drop mother tincture to almost 1 million drops water/alcohol
This is approximately 17.2 gallons or 78.19 (UK) litres or 65.10 (US) liters of water/alcohol added to 1 drop mother tincture.
1C = 1 drop mother tincture to 99 drops water/alcohol
This is approx. 1 2/3 tsp or 8.21 ml of water/alcohol added to 1 drop mother tincture.
2C = 1 drop mother tincture to 27.7 oz water/alcohol
This is approximately 27.7 oz or 787.04 ml of water/alcohol added to 1 drop mother tincture.
3C = 1 drop mother tincture to approx. 27.7 gallons water/alcohol
This is approximately 125.92 (UK) litres or 104.84 (US) liters of water/alcohol added to 1 drop mother tincture.
Liquids In my contact with numerous manufacturers I was told that the volume of alcohol and water that are added to liquid homeopathic medications can equal anywhere from 70% to 95%. To put this into perspective, if you have a 6X strength ingredient and you add enough water or alcohol to equal 90% of the volume, you would still not have enough dilution to go from a 6X to a 7X.
Hope this helps and does not confuse the issues more. In conclusion, the company does seem to be technically knowledgable about lyme but if I were taking the product I would want to know how they check to ensure that there are no viable cysts left in the mixture.
From what I have read, Bb transforms into cyst when serum starved (out of it's host) and can survive for long time. Also it is resistant to abx in cyst form so how do they kill it? This is why I would exercise caution. In all liklihood it is perfectly safe but it would not pass my lips until I knew without a doubt that there were no viable cysts left in the remedy because Bb is not the usual bacteria that a manufacturer might be used to dealing with. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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I just now contacted the company who sells the product and the person I need to talk to about my questions is not available until Monday. His name is Dave Brown.
From what they said, they hire a contract manufacturer to make the product and they make it in the normal way that homeopathic's are produced. That's about all I could get until Monday. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Truthfinder
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Wow, I didn't realize there were so many people here who were taking homeopathic remedies - or have in the past. This is very good to know.
It appears that this product from Deseret is a nosode, and I really would not worry too much about getting a viable bug or "cyst" through the remedy.
There is a very good probablility that the ethanol they use to dilute the remedy will not only kill spirochetes and L-form Borrelia b., but eventually kill even the cysts. But I have been unable to uncover any information that confirms this. I would think alcohol over a period of time would dry a cyst out to where it would no longer be viable. But those darned cysts ARE tough, no doubt about it.
As you pointed out, Terry, even a 6x potency (or 3C) only contains 1 millionth (1/1,000,000) of the original substance. Another live cyst or two added to my overall Lyme load isn't going to upset the apple cart.
Personally, I would love to hear periodic updates on how you do with this, Garden...
I, too, am a bit baffled by the sequence of potencies you are taking - from strongest to weakest - but I am certainly open to new information.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Thanks for all the info everyone is adding to this thread. It has caused me to be very cautious with this remedy, Wished I had started this post last week BEFORE I started the sequence.
I will not be taking any potency less than 24x until next Saturday, so I will call my LLMD this week and ask about the potential for a cyst to remain in the product. All I know is that she told me this works much like a vaccine does. Of course, given the outcome of the old lyme vaccine---
either way, I do trust my LLMD who was trained under THE Dr. B. I will post with reply I get from the LLMD later this week.
I can honestly say, though, that this is doing SOMETHING. I only get the eye twitching when I start a new abx so it definitely is illiciting some type of response in my body. I guess we shall see.
I am not saying this product is a miracle cure. There is no such thing. We are using it to perhaps help boost me over another hurdle. I actually feel 99% about 90% of the time and maybe 85% when I'm at my worst. Abx, all oral, have helped me tremendously, but we need to do something so that when pulling the plug on the abx I don't relapse.
Posts: 132 | From SE Pa | Registered: May 2006
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SunRa
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posted
I did this protocol recently and I felt much worse on it, but I think it's because it made my immune system wake up a bit and recognize the infections...which is a good thing.
However, I didnt noticed any improvement when I finished. probably because my immune system was still too weak to actually kill off the infections...(just my intuitive feeling)...looking back, I think I would have added garlic or some other strong anti-microbial.
Many homeopathic remedies will be antidoted by antibiotics and essential oils, etc...so ask your dr first...I'm not sure if these work like classical homeopathic remedies.
Try doing a search on here to find more people's reactions.One person alternated the remedies with Rifing which worked very well for her.
I would give it a shot...IMO they're very safe, although probably more effective in early cases or as a vaccine-like preventative. But some people with chronic infection have found them helpful. Good luck Posts: 1563 | From MA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
sunRa, thanks for adding about using another antimicrobial. I also take allicin by Dr Zhang(garlic) and use Immpower on the weekends(mushroom immune booster).
Perhaps this explains why i was given a homeopathic remedy to add to the mix.
Posts: 132 | From SE Pa | Registered: May 2006
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TerryK
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Just a bit of an update: I contacted the company that sells the remedies today and they referred me to the manufacturer.
The manufacturer gets the borrelia from another company who has electronically deactivated a live sample. Apparently this is the way viruses and bacteria for nosodes are deactivated (electronically). I explained that borrelia is not an easy to kill bacteria, about cyst forms etc... therefore my concern.
They will be calling me back with more details on how they are sure that it is dead once they talk to their supplier.
The company that sells the product seems very cognizant of lyme. They said that they only sell to doctors and not to patients so this is not a product that one could buy without a prescription. Personally, I think that makes sense.
Apparently the way they give the potencies (stronger potency before weaker) is a method developed in Germany. The stronger remedies are needed first in order to pull Borrelia out of tissues. They said they've had a lot of people who were not getting better who got a LOT better on these nosodes.
I'll fill you in when I hear from the manufacturer just in case anyone else shares my concerns. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
This sounds like a great alternative or adjunct to treatment. Again, I'm wondering if they have any data on success rates. That might be helpful for those of us working with MDs or NDs, or just for our own knowledge.
Posts: 873 | From WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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TerryK
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posted
I wanted to let you know that after 2 more calls to the manufacturer I was told that the manufacturer contacted the company that provides the spirochetes and that they use electro sterilization according to the equipment manufacturer specifications. From what I could get, that means the specifications that are used to kill bacteria in general. That's all the information that I could get which is nothing different than the sellers of the product had already told me.
The manufacturer was told to tell me not to take the homeopathic if I was not comfortable with that information and if I wanted to discuss it further, Dave at Deseret said I should call him back.
Frankly I do not feel that my questions were welcome by the salesman (Dave) when I initially talked to Deseret and it was only after he got the head of the company on the phone that I was able to get the name of the manufacturer. Prior to that, he said that they would discuss it further with my doctor, not with me.
Dave did give me lots of other info about things that I did not ask about regarding the nature of lyme but nothing substantial to do with the specific questions for which I was calling and nothing that I didn't already know.
While it's true that nosodes are a different type of homeopathic product than I've looked into before, I've always been able to get specifics from companies before this so I am left wondering why they refuse to give information?
As I explained to them, it is my understanding that when the lyme spirochetes are starved they convert to a cystic form which are very difficult to kill. I've read that the encysted forms can remain viable for up to 10 months and that they can survive both freezing and thawing and still be capable of infecting test animals. Personally, I don't know that a standard protocol used to kill the average bacteria is going to be effective in killing Borellia cysts.
As I've said before, the product is probably OK but I personally would not take it without further verification that the spirochetes and/or cysts are dead before the remedy is made. I do not want to take the chance of being infected with another strain of borellia or some form that has altered itself to survive in an animal other than the normal vector that we humans are typically infected from.
Aside from all that, I dig my heels in when I get the attitude that I don't have a right to know the specifics of something that may impact my health. They are right, I shouldn't take it if I am not comfortable with the information they have been willing to provide. For those of you who do feel comfortable, please let us know how you do with it. Terry
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Truthfinder
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Thanks for checking on this, Terry.
Sounds like the system for killing Bb is "electrocution". Like you, I'm not sure that would satisfy my concerns either.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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it has been one month now and after consulting my LLMD, will be doing 4 months of this. the second month you start at the 5x dose and work your way back to the 200x.
My LLMD has used this and has had a range of results. Some patients herx terribly and must space the doses wider(6 days instead of three). Others, it has really awakened their immune systems.
I feel that it IS doing SOMETHING. The month of August has been a good one for me and this was my only major change in protocol. I did herx, but minorly. It occurred between the 2nd and 4th dose and again at the 7th. weird that it worked about the way it was supposed to.
Will keep updating with any other info I can get.
My LLMD has used this for themself and it worked wonderfully and i was assured it is safe to use!!
Posts: 132 | From SE Pa | Registered: May 2006
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Truthfinder
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Thanks, Garden, for following up on this. Please keep us posted.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Hey guys . .sorry to say that really no change for me.
I did def. herx during the 2-4th dose also. I really haven't noticed much afterwards.
I also did the Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever remedy by this same company. Anyone done this? My naturopath does EDS . . and that was the first thing that popped up evn before lyme.
So I guess maybe I need to ask my doc if she will do this extensively.
I will keep you updated.
Good luck to all!
Posts: 74 | From Florida | Registered: May 2006
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mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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lymie tony z
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posted
Hey there MOMO,
why are you bringing this up again?
It took me three quarters of reading before I noticed how old it is....
sheesh!
Yeah...I'd like to know if anyone of them will admit how stupid they feel..
check out Karate ladies post on cognitive water and homeopathy..zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I am on my second round of Deseret Borrelia 10M vials. Mine has a Borrelia, Babesia Microti and Ehrliochia combination, I did one round in September every 7 days and started another in November. My homeopathic doctor said we may do one more round in January. I have found this along with a protocol of Core Artemisia Blend (Energetix), Adrenal Plus (Progena), Echinacea Premium(Mediherb)to be very helpful. I've just added Cats claw (yogi Tea) 28 mg 2-3 times a day. Also take shaklee multi w/iron and a cal mag zinc supplement. I try to juice carrots, celery and beet juice once a week-- it last for a couple of days. I try to get in the steam room (YMCA)or take a hot bath (with brushing)a couple of times a week. I must say I feel better than I have in long time. I was first diagnosed in 1997 and have only chosen to do the abx 1 time at the very beginning. Six weeks of Rocephrin and Homeopathics. I worked totally with my Homeopathic doctor from the beginning. I have been in remission for 9 years. I just started to have symptoms again this year (stress possibly-- two teenagers lol). So when anyone questions the value of Homeopathic tinctures and vials -- I feel I just have to chime in and say they absolutly worked for me I feel it is vital to eat as clean as possible and make yourself walk or excercise at least 3 times a week. I hope you find this information useful.
Walking in victory
Posts: 6 | From ohio | Registered: Jul 2006
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luvs2ride
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posted
I have not responded to Mo's post before now because I was not one of the original posters and I assumed she was talking to them. However, some scoffers seem to think silence equates to failure, so here is my story.
My personal experience does not constitute a double blind study but it is true. When I was diagnosed the 2nd time with Lyme and this time 3rd stage or chronic, I was given homeopathic remedies and nothing else.
Here are the results and they are still true even though it has been 1 year since I took the remedies.
migraines - gone shortterm memory loss - gone mental confusion - gone hearing - improved energy level - super! joint pain - worsened by end of treatment.
I'm glad to be rid of those horrible migraines. The STM loss was just really inconvenient and not so hard to live with. The mental confusion was frightening and I hope it never comes back. The joint pain really sucks. New treatment has improved my joint pain tremendously, but I'm not 100% well.
Those results are good enough for me to feel comfortable recommending hoemopathy to others.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Great news.... I am a believer in the nosodes too!! You are so right when you say the mental part was scary. All I wanted after the headaches were gone, was to be able to think clearly and remember things. I know that the Borrelia vials made the difference and I thank God-- that I have a wonderful Homeopathic doctor that knows what he is doing. Interesting about the joint pain-- that is the one thing I have left-- but only in my left hip. I started on Glucosomine and Condroit and MSM for the last two weeks and I feel it is letting up.
Walking in victory
Posts: 6 | From ohio | Registered: Jul 2006
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lymie tony z
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posted
I'm still wondering why the original posters are not reposting their amazing recovery and cured results...
Yours notwithstanding...zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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luvs2ride
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posted
Well Z,
Perhaps they have moved on to enjoy their health.
In your "search" for the truth, are you simply discarding success stories like mine and walking in victory's?
Luvs
PS: Walking In Victory: I love your handle!
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
Thanks for posting Luvs and Walking in Victory - terrific stories. Sorry you are having some symptoms again WIV, but now you know how to deal with it - a system that works for YOU.
Some people don't seem to comprehend that treatment of chronic illnesses takes time, and it is a complex process, no matter if you use conventional medicine or homeopathy, or a combination of both.
It is utterly ludicrous to imply that in order for homeopathy to be taken seriously in the treatment of Lyme Disease, it should produce immediate, universally effective, and 100% total-cure results. That's absurd.
There are no ``magic bullets'' being touted here, and none should be expected by anyone. We are simply discussing a different system of medicine that has proven to be effective for many people.
Perhaps Garden of Lyme and Heathnicole will get around to posting one of these days. They are probably involved with all that holiday stuff that most men don't necessarily have much experience with, LOL.
Some of Garden's updates can be found here on this recent thread:
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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lymie tony z
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posted
Look Luvy,
I simply asked a question as to where they all were....I did not equate anything to failure!
However....I wonder about you dearie....
I don't know of any lymie who has heard out of the mouths of mainstream or llmd's that they actually were diagnosed with stage three late or chronic lyme disease...
per say...
also the garden lady said she had IV abx which probably put it into remission and now it's back...
I don't know....If you go to the success story archives you'll notice something prevalent...
While there is success...there is not any total cure stories....
You'll always see stuff somewhere in the success stories where they are still taking "something"...
so yeah....I'm a little skeptical...
I would like to hear how you're doing sometime in the near future as well...
If you're real and if you're sincere and honest about your TOTAL treatment packages......
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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luvs2ride
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posted
Ok Z
It was an ILADS doctor who said to me "This is not acute Lyme. You have had this awhile. Probably since you were first bit in 1995."
I don't know, Z, want to argue with him? Go right ahead. PM me and I will happily give you his name.
You silly boy.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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