I have read many of the experiences with treating coinfections. There is usually the description of herxing when treating these.
At an appt. with our LLMD (very well respected!) he stated that one will only herx when treating a spirochete infection. Has anyone heard this, as well?
This surprised us because we had done a short trial of artemesinin (my husband was already of zith) and he had migrane headaches, night sweats and palps. I thought this experience qualified as a herx. The doc said it was most likely the art acting on the Lyme.
Thanks
Posted by AZURE WISH (Member # 804) on :
I am just a patient with lyme... but from what I understand you can herx with other infections besides spirochetes.
I even herx from treating yeast infections.
Best wishes
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Perhaps it's just terminology. Maybe only spirochetal disease responds with a herxheimer, but other diseases and problems can cause a "die-off" reaction???
Posted by minimonkey (Member # 8693) on :
I think Lymetoo is right-on, here -- the term "herxheimer" refers to spirochetal infections, but it is possible to have a flare of symptoms during treatment with other infections, too. Lots of folks do. It may not be quite the same process, but it feels a lot the same.
Posted by radiogirl (Member # 9202) on :
This is one great question!To find out more on the herx reaction look at what many researchers and physicians have found at www.immed.org .Clinical but worth a look see.Its where I began my journey.
Also take a look at www.RA-infection-connection.com I realize that you may not have RA but Dr. Katherine Poelhmann goes into many more infection based illnesses that people are not getting addressed by traditional medicine.CFS and FM etc people are often given the lable of whiners and mental cases which happened to me.
My point is many years ago Dr Thomas Brown began treating RA patients with antibiotics with thousands of patients going into remission.Many of those patients had the herxheimer reaction.I would be willing to bet a certain percentage had borrelia infection as well had any number of cell wall deficient bacteria in them.
A high enough bacterial load of any sneaky occult bacteria and you will get a herxheimer reaction according to Prof.Garth Nicolson.Finding out which ones your infected with is often the tricky part.I got the ole CFS/FM etc lable along with being a pain in the blankety blank to the fancy high priced doctors I had.
Day three of taking doxy and I was crying like a baby .Nothing will wake you up more than going thru a month long herx ,nothing.I felt sick because I was sick.So according to the doctors who are on the front lines of treating very ill folks with abx whether they have lyme or some other nasty bug in them is yes the herx is a real symptom of a high bacterial load.It does not have to be lyme or syphillis.But it may be another decade or more before your average doctor is taught that. Take Care,RG
Posted by radiogirl (Member # 9202) on :
Didnt mean to sound like a know it all.Typically lyme and syphillis were associated with the herx reaction.If I were running the world Id have a fantastic electron microscope and a top notch bacteriologist(msp) and let anyone who wanted to know whats in their blood come to my house and look for free.Well maybe for 5 bucks a pop!Have agreat labor day,RG
Posted by 3 limes (Member # 8520) on :
Yes, our lyme doctor said exactly the same thing a few months ago. He told me that only the bacteria die off from two conditions only will cause a herx. The two conditions are lyme and syphilis. He said bacterial die off from the co-infections does not produce a herx.
Posted by johnlyme1 (Member # 7343) on :
What about myco - I have even read in literature that there can be an intesification of symptoms when first starting treatment.
What I do know from my last run of zith/malarone and art that I started to sweat like heck for the first 5 days.
Posted by Jill E. (Member # 9121) on :
There's a whole website for chlamydia pneumonae that I ran across while doing a google search on herxes months ago - I've seen the website mentioned on Lymenet, too. I think it's www.cpnhelp.org or something like that.
Anyway, these patients are on antibiotic regimens much like Lyme patients and they describe herxing.
Jill
Posted by Sojourner (Member # 9424) on :
Jill, I know the website well and it is where I began to get info. The way our LLMD sees it (and has spoken to Charles Stratton-the CPn/Ms link guy at Vanderbilt)the herx experienced by this protocol is caused by inadvertently killing Lyme-since the abx are identical--just at a slightly lower dose.
Frustrating and confusing--that's what this all is! Thanks for the responses
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