LymeNet Flash: Dirt wanted- We have a war on our hands

This is topic Dirt wanted- We have a war on our hands in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

I am officially declaring war on ducks and duck motels!

NO MORE MR. NICE GUY!

We MUST start working together.. ASAP!

Some folks with Lyme are already feeling the effects of the latest IDSA guidelines.. and are unable to refill prescriptions they desperately need. You could be next.

By the way.. the CDC has just posted the IDSA guidelines on their web site.

Now more folks will end up suffering.. LOTS more folks.. because to "have Lyme" now.. the doctors must see a rash... and if they don't.. you need to test positive on both ELISA and Western Blot to get a maximum of 28 days treatment... IF you get that.

ENOUGH OF THE INSANITY! ENOUGH OF THE ARROGANCE! ENOUGH OF THE IDIOTS! ENOUGH OF THE EVIL! ENOUGH OF THE MONOPOLY ON OUR HEALTH CARE!

We want dirt on any of the following groups/people... and any conflicts of interest, patents they have, connections with insurance... ANYTHING you can share or dig up. I am furiously writing and researching.. and compiling the information... and could use your help.

Either email me or post your info here... please. It will be sent to the proper authorities.. for sure.

I appreciate the help, more than you will ever know... as I am worn down and still trying to push as hard as I can.

Thank you!!!

[email protected]

[Big Grin]

Here is a list of the first line of ducks and duck motels I am requesting help with.. if you please.

The IDSA

Gary P. Wormser

Raymond J. Dattwyler

Eugene D. Shapiro

John J. Halperin

Allen C. Steere

Mark S. Klempner

Peter J. Krause

Johan S. Bakken

Franc Strle

Gerold Stanek

Linda Bockenstedt

Durland Fish

J. Stephen Dumler

Robert B. Nadelman

Divisions of Infectious Diseases and Allergy, Immunology, and Rheumatology, Department of
Medicine, New York Medical College, Valhalla, and New York University School of Medicine,
New York, New York

Atlantic Neuroscience Institute, Summit, New Jersey

Departments of Pediatrics and Epidemiology and Public Health and Section of Rheumatology, Department of Medicine, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, and Department of Pediatrics,
University of Connecticut School of Medicine and Connecticut Children's Medical Center,
Hartford

Division of Rheumatology, Allergy, and Immunology, Massachusetts General Hospital,
Harvard Medical School, and Boston University School of Medicine and Boston Medical
Center, Boston, Massachusetts

Section of Infectious Diseases, St. Luke's Hospital, Duluth, Minnesota

Division of Medical Microbiology, Department of Pathology, The Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, Maryland

Department of Infectious Diseases, University
Medical Center, Ljubljana, Slovenia; and Medical University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria

Again.. thank you!

[Big Grin]

Posted by trails (Member # 1620) on :

i dont have the actual facts verifiable and referenced --but was told by my LLMD that the steere group USED to "believe in" chronic lyme until the Lymerix vaccine was released. He said you could see their point of view change within 90 days of the release of the vaccine. If this is provable then there is some dirt. not enough but some.

Do you have any ways I could uncover this dirt further? I dont know where to start, but I could if someone gave me some leads.

Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :

This is so sickening that they would allow people to suffer. Those who are currently ill and those who have not yet been bitten.

It's disgusting. Wish I could help, but I know nothing.

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

If you would like to DIG for dirt...

Get yer YAHOO or Google ready.. or whatever you use.. and start typing in words in the search bar..

Like, for example... Dattwyler, insurance

Or... conflicts of interest, Steere

As things pop up.. read them.. pick out any "weird" things that catch your eye.. then post a link here... and tell me what you think is important on that site.

It's that simple!

THANKS!

[Big Grin]

Posted by lymednva (Member # 9098) on :

Have you seen this? http://www.personalconsult.com/articles/klempnerlymestudy.html

Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :

Sorry, I can't help at all, but I sent your thread to someone who may be able to assist you TC. Bettyg [Big Grin]

Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :

One protest idea: don't call the ducks doctors anymore, just mr's. They don't deserve to be acknowledged as doctors if they refuse to do proper doctoring.

Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :

How about this site that was posted in the activism section: www.lyme-rage.info/bwsept06. Lyme and co-infections as biowarfare, and the IDSA, CDC and NIH in cahoots??

Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :

Good one, Robin - that lyme rage article is full of nasty connections and what I would consider "dirt".

Frankly, I think it is time we all start considering some kind of class-action lawsuit. Just start entertaining the idea and start getting used to it.

It is time that the IDSA, the insurance companies, the CDC, the NIH, etc. start having to spend big $$$ to defend their claims and policies. So far, the ILADS docs and Lyme patients are the only ones losing money and being hauled into court.

I believe it is time to turn the tables.

This insanity will not stop until the IDSA & Co. have something BIG to lose.

I have contact information for one law office that might be willing to get involved, based in their past cases. So let's keep our eyes open for law firms that may be willing to take something like this on.

Tracy

Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :

I've pulled out the names of the KEY players in the Senate and House of Representatives that may be most helpful in the fight against the IDSA.

In my opinion, these are the people we should concentrate on writing to regarding the IDSA/CDC/ Lyme Disease farse because they are already concerned with or involved in investigating the CDC ``conflicts of interest''.

U.S. Representative Dr Dave Weldon (R-FL)
U.S. Representative Carolyn Maloney (D-NY)
Senator Chris Dodd, (D-Conn),
Congressman Dan Burton, (R-Ind)

Senator Joe Lieberman (D-Conn)
Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich)
U.S. Representative Chris Smith, (R-NJ)
U.S. Representative Dan Burton, (R-Ind)
U.S. Representative Joseph Crowley, (D-NY)
U.S. Representative Maurice Hinchey, (D-NY)

Posted by humanbeing (Member # 8572) on :

Would it help to have first hand accounts of patients told they did not have lyme but were psychos...then it turned out they did?

(I know two dr. shapiro victims)

Posted by sometimesdilly (Member # 9982) on :

I second you on the value of applying pressure to targeted lawmakers, Truthfinder.

IMO this isn't the best time for letter-writing, etc. since we're almost to the election and Congress is in recess.

However- this a FABULOUS time to gather a group, however small, and to go in person to lobby reps who are in their home districts/home offices right now. In person lobbying is for a fact the most effective form of influence/pressure there is.

And, um, I notice that a number of the incumbents you listed are pretty vulnerable right now, and are even more likely to listen to constitutents right now. Every vote counts and all that.

Using political pressure is one possible path. There are others.

Tincup, do you know who is mobilizing to fight the ISDA guidelines on the basis of their scientific merit (lack thereof?)

Dilly

Posted by 8man12 (Member # 7664) on :

im not sure were it is but remember when Mark S. Klempner,said lyme was worse than congestive heart failure.i will look for it.

Posted by 8man12 (Member # 7664) on :

what about other journal articles proving permenent infection.

Persistent brain infection and disease reactivation in relapsing
fever
borreliosis.

* Larsson C,
* Andersson M,
* Pelkonen J,
* Guo BP,
* Nordstrand A,
* Bergstrom S.

Department of Molecular Biology, Umea University, SE-901 87 Umea,
Sweden.

Relapsing fever, an infection caused by Borrelia spirochetes, is
generally
considered a transient, self-limiting disease in humans. The present
study
reveals that murine infection by Borrelia duttonii can be reactivated
after an
extended time as a silent infection in the brain, with no bacteria
appearing in
the blood and spirochete load comparable to the numbers in an infected
tick. The
host cerebral gene expression pattern is indistinguishable from that of

uninfected animals, indicating that persistent bacteria are not
recognized by
the immune system nor cause noticeable tissue damage. Silent infection
can be
reactivated by immunosuppression, inducing spirochetemia comparable to
that of
initial densities. B. duttonii has never been found in any host except
man and
the tick vector. We therefore propose the brain to be a possible
natural
reservoir of the spirochete. The view of relapsing fever as an acute
disease
should be extended to include in some cases prolonged persistence,
a feature characteristic of the related spirochetal infections Lyme
disease and
syphilis.

PMID: 16782384 [PubMed - in process]

Posted by just don (Member # 1129) on :

Just wanted to say if we are throwing dirt, WHY NOT throw the real stuff. Recycled hay and water out the south end of a north bound 'BULL". harder to clean that stuff off the 'face' area, at least. Even after the particles leave the 'smell' still lingers!! Cuz I B --just don--

Posted by Areneli (Member # 6740) on :

I doubt that anything changes without a wave of noticable rallies and street demonstratons in the USA. Other countries are blindly following IDSA recommendations.

Posted by pigwit (Member # 9059) on :

A demonstration or march makes sense to me. Any march would have to go slow due to our health. Maybe that would make the health issues stand out more though. Is it too late to do something before the upcoming election?

Posted by trails (Member # 1620) on :

This is old dirt gotten from LDF site but dirt none-the-less and good for newbies to read.

"As president of Brooks Biotechnologies, Inc., Dattwyler has developed a LD test-kit, and therefore may have a vested interest in asserting the reliability of conventional ELISA-based LD tests. It is also possible that Dattwyler could feel threatened by Dr. Orens' use of non-ELISA based tests such as the urine antigen test (which Dr. Burrascano also uses), because his test, available since last year, could become obsolete should another testing methodology become more popular."

"In addition to insurance consulting, some scientific advisers for the ALDF, including Steere, work as advisers to the CDC, giving these few academics the ability to promulgate "standard of care" guidelines and shape federal policy and activity. ALDF scientific adviser Robert T. Schoen, MD, a clinical professor of medicine at Yale University School of Medicine, has done consulting work for Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Connecticare, and Cigna. He and Steere write short-term protocols."

"Yet another plausible reason (that the CDC is reluctant to allow other more accurate tests for Bb to become available) looms. A search of the World Intellectual Property Organization Patent Publication reveals that on 5/26/92, under patent publication #WO9324145, a subsidary of the SmithKline Beecham pharmaceutical company, in conjunction with the CDC, filed a patent on behalf of several CDC employees from the agency's Fort Collins branch who are named as inventors. (These Fort Collins personnel are directly involved in all CDC decisions regarding LD.)

This personal patent is for a specific strain of the LD spirochete and covers the development of an ELISA-based test, a potential vaccine, and more. (The updated patent mentions their "invention" could be used as a candidate to potentially add to the OspA vaccine then under consideration.) CDC employees named in the patent, therefore, may have a vested interest in keeping ELISA-based tests as the standard testing procedure. Schell, whose test is not ELISA-based, said at least one Fort Collins patent-holder, CDC research biologist Barbara J. Johnson, was at the meeting as a member of the evaluation committee."

These quotes were taken from this page:
http://www.lyme.org/lymelight/gao_investigation.html

Posted by ldfighter (Member # 9405) on :

Don't know if this is dirt per se, but look at these statements from Dattwyler's recent vaccine-related patent applications:

"Currently, Lyme Disease is treated with antibiotics. However, such treatment is not always successful in clearing the infection. Treatment is often delayed due to improper diagnosis with the deleterious effect that the infection proceeds to a chronic condition, where treatment with antibiotics is often not useful. One of the factors contributing to delayed treatment is the lack of effective diagnostic tools."

"...OspA has antigenic variability... Other Borrelia proteins demonstrate similar antigenic variability. Surprisingly, the immune response to these outer surface proteins tends to occur late in the disease, if at all (Craft, J. E. et al., J. Clin Invest. 78: 934-939 (1986); Dattwyler, R. J. and B. J. Luft, Rheum. Clin. North Am. 15: 727-734 (1989)). Furthermore, patients acutely and chronically infected with B. burgdorferi respond variably to the different antigens, including OspA, OspB, OspC, OspD, p39, p41 and p93."

US Patent #7060281, June 2006 (Dattwyler et al)

US Patent #7008625, March 2006 (Dattwyler et al)

Posted by national catastrophe (Member # 10011) on :

TC

Apparently you've disabled your PMs. I know a person who has ALL the information you desire but I'm not willing to post his name publicly. Please contact me any way you can. Thank you.

Posted by ldfighter (Member # 9405) on :

More from Dattwyler's patent #7060281, which is for a combination of OspC polypeptides from different strains:

"New diagnostic assays of the present invention, based on major ospC groups A, B, I, and K are useful to identify those at risk for progressive illness. Given that OspC proteins are antigenically variable, individuals infected with one strain may produce an antibody response that is not reactive with an OspC protein from a different major group. Antibody detection using antigen preparations of the present invention, incorporating a proper mix of invasive clones of B. burgdorferi will be much more sensitive than the present, single strain protocols."

You mean, the present tests aren't perfect? So why the emphatic IDSA warning (in italics, no less) not to diagnose any seronegative cases w/out a rash?

And WHY are these 2006-issued patents not disclosed as potential conflicts of interest in the guidelines??

[ 12. October 2006, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: ldfighter ]

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Good morning and thank you all.. burry mush!

OK.. you are all on the right track. Thanks for all the "cool" info!!! I am getting emails and these posts to deal with.. so it's hard to keep up copying them, putting them to documents, then making up emails to notify others... and responding individually to each of you.

Please know that I appreciate all you are doing... even if I don't "hang out" here so much.. and even if you see me here and I seem to be ignoring important posts and "playing around".

I do come here to "play" when my brain is overloaded.. so if I only post a joke on one spot all day... it is not because I am ignoring you... or not because I am not sending out the stuff.. cause I am.

It is because my brain is fried and I can't hold another thimble full of info in that tiny space. OK?

ALL info is being forwarded to folks who are trying to help.

NOW... this morning I had a two hour audience with an attorney... BIG one. Don't even ask who... somethings MUST be kept silent on the board.

First of all... I was shocked I got 2 hours FREE time. REAL shocked!!!

I presented our case.. and they wrote up all I could spit out in 2 hours. They said they will get back with me within 2 weeks.

I told them there are MANY folks needing help.. and then there is this "monopoly" junk going on. (MY words.. not theirs) If and when I hear back.. and they are ready to go... I told them I could get at least 100 people (patients) to them to discuss Lyme concerns and things they are having problems with.

Now.. do NOT get excited about this. I have had my hopes up before.. and we have found help for some folks in the past.. but this is a BIGGIE.. and I don't know yet if they would be willing to take the case. I mentioned I was ccompletely broke.. and they STILL spoke with me... so I thought that interesting??

Anyhow.. do know I will be doing MUCH research, writing, and putting together stuff for them and others. I feel sad I can't chat with each of you about the details... as my energy is so limited and my brain will only stretch so far.

Just know I am trying... and I do need ALL your help to try to make anything happen.

I also know there are other plans in the works.. which will be apparent fairly soon.. and good for us.

My MAIN thoughts are we need to:

1. Stick together.. and COME together.

2. Be ready and willing to move on short notice (get your stories together and your info)

3. Make noise NOW!

More about making noise soon... but in the meantime.. write up a letter to the editor to be used... or get names and contact info from folks you know with Lyme. Update your email address book and make contacts with others with Lyme. Anything you can do to prepare yourself to rock and roll when the time comes.

I don't know the final plans yet.. but I can tell you we will need to have all of are 'ducks in a row', real soon!

Again.. thanks!

[Big Grin]

Posted by NP40 (Member # 6711) on :

If you want to give the CDC a piece of your mind, go here.
[email protected]

[The CDC cleverly posts only a link to the IDSA guidelines, the actual guidelines are not on their site. Additionally, the CDC has a disclaimer immediately above the new guidelines link. Think they don't know it's complete nonsense.]

Make sure to tell the CDC you WILL be contacting your federal representative over the IDSA's fraud. Access to all congessionall e-mails in link below.

http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-email.html

You can give the IDSA your "verbal toilet paper" for the huge stain they've left on sick people here:
http://www.idsociety.org/Template.cfm?Section=Contact_Us

Posted by kam (Member # 3410) on :

Where's the Beef?

I would prefer to write to the CDC and the congress and house with some facts and documented research showing that long term abx does help.

At this point, I can only write that I have chosen long term abx due to my own research of seeing others regaining their health.

If someone on this site can come up with copies of the research and documentation....which I know is out there...

Please let me know.

Thanks.

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

National Cat..

No.. I don't do those PM things.. too much to handle already and too confusing for me. Sorry.

Please email me.. and please be sure to put Lyme in the title so I don't delete. THANKS!

[email protected]

[Big Grin]

````````````````````````````````````````````

Dilly..

You said..

"Do you have any insight about what national lyme groups are doing to pushback against the new guidelines? How about giving folks here on the Board a quick lowdown that can be made public?"

Sorry...

Sometimes posting on the board is not a good way to keep plans private... and sometimes the plans need to be kept private... especially while they are "in progress".

I'm sure you all understand that. And.. I am not privy to all the plans and all the details. I have been told to sit tight.. do this or that.. and wait.

I know folks are anxious and want to help.. but until I am told what the best route to take would be... by folks MUCH smarter than me... with more experience too... I have to sit tight and wait.

As soon as I know.. I will share. Thanks for your patience.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Kam.. hey hey..

BEFORE you or anyone sends them info.. documented studies.. and such....

PLEASE take time to wade through the new guidelines.. page by page.. to the end.

I STILL haven't been able to make it through all the way.. so if you do .. you are GOOD!

Point being.. they say.. over and over.. from what I have read.. that our studies are basically no good. They have cut them to pieces.. called them names.. etc.

So before spending time .. your precious time.. gathering and sending what they already know and have.. be sure to know it most likely won't mean a lot to them. They KNOW all about the studies.. and chose to ignore them. A number of the studies are even mentioned in their guidelines.. as they LOVE to claim them not credible. What babies they are!

At this time I think your voice as a person with Lyme will possibly do more good? I also think the BIG guys on our side would better be able to fight science with science.... that is if ANYONE can.

Just my opinion... please do it though if you feel it will help.

[Big Grin]

Posted by ldfighter (Member # 9405) on :

On the issue of documentation regarding long-term abx...

Two out of three placebo-controlled studies indicated that antibiotics do help patients with chronic Lyme.

The IDSA tried to bury this fact, but it's all there, right in the IDSA guidelines themselves.
(All quotes below are from the guidelines.)

Study #1: Klempner.
No improvement. (Of course the IDSA doesn't mention the study's massive flaws - see http://www.ilads.org/position2.html ).

Study #2: Krupp.
``Fatigue improved in both groups at the 1-month assessment, but improvement was sustained at 6 months only in the ceftriaxone group [294].''

So... sustained physical improvement. Only in the group that got abx.

Study #3: Fallon.
``Preliminary findings indicate the absence of sustained improvement in cognitive function in the antibiotic-treated group at 14 weeks after therapy, although some patients reported continued improvement in physical functioning [332].''

So... sustained physical improvement. Only in the group that got abx.
And there was also cognitive improvement during the study (only for those who got abx), which was not maintained 14 weeks after stopping abx.

Hoping no one will notice these inconvenient facts, the IDSA concludes:

``Antibiotic therapy has not proven to be useful...''

A simple lie, repeated often enough...

There's a more detailed breakdown of these studies on Wikipedia.

Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Robin123:
One protest idea: don't call the ducks doctors anymore, just mr's. They don't deserve to be acknowledged as doctors if they refuse to do proper doctoring.

good idea

Posted by NP40 (Member # 6711) on :

I truly believe that the upper echelons of the IDSA are a lost cause. Flooding the CDC and your congressional rep with e-mails, phone calls is far more effective.

Throwing ton's of research at politicians or CDC bureacrats will do no good. Their staffers won't read it anyways. Make it short,sweet and p***ed off ! They understand one thing ! Irate constituients !

You start bombarding them and let them know that the new IDSA/CDC guidelines will kill and debilitate people get's their attention. There's plenty of time to shove research under their noses later.

You've got to create a storm of protest. Forget writing long letters with research. Raw, human emotion is what works.

Here's a sample:

Dear CDC or Congressperson,

Recently the Infectious Disease Society of America published new treatment guidelines for the treatment of lyme disease. The people who've adopted and approved these guideliness have huge conflicts of interest with the pharmaceutical/insurance industry.

Being involved with grassroots lyme disease support groups nationwide, I'm outraged that such fraud and abysmally profit driven guidelines could be published and endorsed by the CDC and IDSA. These guidelines will lead to widespread further debilitation and death of the present and past millions of lyme disease sufferers nationwide.

Support groups nationwide are outraged at the IDSA/CDC complicity in the denial of treatment for scores of ill people and believe me, that will reflect in my vote.

Sincerely,

Posted by kam (Member # 3410) on :

Dag nab it...lyme brain..again

Been there...done that..

it is coming back to me...

happened with the ID who trains the UCSF Interns..

I showed him a paper documenting my research...he shows me a paper with the opposite documentation

I show him another paper...he shows me another paper continuing along the same theme...

Bottom line..I was not treated and told that all that could be done was to give me sympathy.

..That part of the brain is getting a little better with treatment but I still find myself making the same mistakes...

..At least I am recalling now that I have been down that road before. [Smile]

Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :

I like the idea of a huge class action lawsuit against the IDSA and whatever other entities are also involved.

Posted by stymielymie (Member # 10044) on :

yo tc, [kiss]

this is not a joke, please don't take it
as a joke.

erin brockovich esq. takes class action lawsuits
very similar to this , against big business and for the people.

she is now an attorney
http://www.vititoe.com/ to make contact with them
they may take the case on contigency,
just for the publicity.

docdave [kiss]

Posted by Areneli (Member # 6740) on :

Great, we just need a few million dollars for that huge class action.

Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :

I'm sorry I can't read all this right now, but my brain's just not working.

I don't know if this idea has been mentioned already, so I'm just throwing it out there.

I think that it would be a good idea to try to determine close family member's of the lead ducks to determine if there are any interests which may be listed under their names to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

I think financial advisors and accountants have all sorts of tricks for hiding assets. Living Trusts, etc. Maybe there's a way to search for registered trust ownership, trustees, and the sort?

Just wanted to throw that out there, in case it's a new idea.

I'll try to help better tincup, when I get my mess of a life straightened out some.

Good luck for now!
[Smile]

Ali

Posted by TexasChaos (Member # 7465) on :

TC, just let us know what you need and we'll rally the troops to get it for you.

Posted by ConnieMc (Member # 191) on :

Please be careful disclosing details of patient actions against these clowns. They read this board too, to see what we are up to.

Posted by Beverly (Member # 1271) on :

Okay Tin, I'll give it a shot.

Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :

Dave, I loved the idea of Erin Brokavich becoming a FT lawyer! I loved that movie.

Ali, good idea; no; hadn't seen your idea posted anywhere.

TC, another idea I wanted to suggest since you gave that whole string of names was this:

Instead of MANY folks taking the same name to research, how about folks posting who they'll research, and TC, your showing after the names of THOSE SPOKEN FOR, info.

Bettyg .... being researched by -------

This way everyone's efforts will NOT be DUPLICATED by others unless folks want to split a person where there is just so MUCH stuff to go thru and read for TC.

Iowa attorney is takng on microsoft in a class lawsuit. All of us who bought pcs in a given time with MS programs on it, have the chance to be nvolved and collect some money AFTER lawyer's fees are taken care of.
Bettyg [Big Grin]

Posted by dontlikeliver (Member # 4749) on :

The guys in the IDSA, I agree, KNOW about all the studies already. So, pointing them out TO THEM I(to the IDSA AND CDC I MEAN) would be a waste of time.

As someone else said elsewhere, it is not about the lack of knowledge about these things, but it is about power. The power the IDSA currently have and which they intend to keep.

[ 14. October 2006, 03:52 AM: Message edited by: dontlikeliver ]

Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :

This problem goes WAY beyond the IDSA & Co.

EVERYBODY should read the article that Robin123 posted about near the beginning of this thread.... we need to understand the underlying dynamics here. Here's a taste of what you will find:

quote:
...When Polly Murray made her now-famous call to the Connecticut health department to report the strange epidemic among children and adults in her town, her initial reception was lukewarm. However, some weeks later, she got an unexpected call from a Dr David Snydman, of the Epidemic Intelligence Service (EIS), who was very interested. He arranged for fellow EIS officer Dr Allen Steere to get involved. By the time Mrs. Murray turned up for her appointment at Yale, the doctor she had expected to see had been relegated to the role of an onlooker. Allen Steere had taken charge - and his views were to shape the course of Lyme medicine for the next thirty years, up till today. [x]

To understand the significance of all this, we need a closer look at the Epidemic Intelligence Service, the EIS.

The EIS is an elite, quasi-military unit of Infectious Disease experts set up in the 1950's to develop an offensive biowarfare capability. Despite the banning of offensive biowar in the 1970's, the crack troops of the EIS continue to exist, ostensibly for non-offensive research into ``emerging disease'' threats, a blanket phrase covering both bioweapon attacks and natural epidemics at the same time. Graduates of the EIS training program are sent in to occupy strategic positions in the US health infrastructure, taking leadership at federal and state health agencies, in academia, industry and the media. The organisation also extends its influence abroad, training officers for public health agencies in Britain, France, the Netherlands etc. [xi] [xii]

In fact a high proportion of Steere camp Lyme experts are involved with the EIS ....

http://www.lyme-rage.info/bwsept06.html

Tracy

Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :

Just doing a little research on Steere. I'm curious if anyone knows if he's related to
William C Steere Jr.- born 6/17/36
Graduated Stanford University 1959 w/BS in Biology
who is a Director of MetLife Inc., Pfizer Inc, Dow Jones, NYU Medical Center and on the Exec. Commitee of Sloan-Kettering Memorial Cancer Center? He lives in Rye, NY with wife & has 3 sons.

There was an Allen C Steere- retired 1973-head of Lincoln Financial Groups, Governmental Affairs Department. The Governmental Affairs Society of Indiana established an Allen C Steere Award.

1907-1989 William Campbell Steere - Bryologist- Pres of NY Botanical Gardens 1958-1972. The NYBG dedicated the Bryophyte Collection to him in 1998. He donated Stanford Gardens Botanical Collection to Stanford University. I believe he also donated the Columbia University Herbarium.
He received his PhD in 1932 (Stanford?) thesis on cytology. His grandfather was Joseph Beal Steere & Uncle was Rice Beal. He was good friends with Howard Crum.

I'm not sure if any of this means anything or if all my info is accurate. I do after all have Lyme-Brain. I did think it might be interesting.

[Smile]

Ali

Is this the kind of stuff you wanted?
If not, I'll stop cluttering up your post. [Smile]

Ali

Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :

I don't know if I can link this :

Reference USA - Wormser

Yuck!: Wormser stuff

Gary P. WORMSER, M.D.

In 1985, the first research paper on AIDS appeared in The New England Journal of Medicine, co-authored by Dr. Gary Wormser and colleagues who had observed something new in their patients.

Dr. Wormser has continued to contribute in a major way to our understanding of infectious diseases. He is an internationally recognized physician scientist who treats patients while expanding knowledge of infectious diseases through research.

In addition to AIDS, diseases such as Lyme, vancomycin-resistant enterococci (VRE), and human granulocytic ehrlichiosis (HGE) are of particular interest.

Dr. Wormser is also engaged in preparing physicians to identify illnesses caused by biological or chemical agents, such as anthrax, botulinum toxin, plague, smallpox and tularemia.

Dr. Wormser is vice chairman of the Department of Medicine of New York Medical College and at Westchester Medical Center and is chief of infectious diseases for both institutions.

A professor of medicine and of pharmacology at the College, Dr. Wormser has responsibility for scientific affairs and research development in the Department of Medicine, charged to further develop the basic and clinical research focus within the university and at affiliated institutions.

He speaks widely at national and international conferences, and is the author of 300 original articles, book chapters and reviews. His authoritative textbook, AIDS and Other Manifestations of HIV Disease, is in its third edition.

Dr. Wormser received his B.A. degree from the University of Pennsylvania and his M.D. from Johns Hopkins Medical School.

Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :

Yes Dilly!

If we're going to shout it, we need to back it up with documentation or we set ourselves up for legal action!

How about pulling together facts and sources and submitting it to newspapers. Protest on the day of publication holding advance copies.

Posted by ldfighter (Member # 9405) on :

I agree. I brought up the NIH-funded studies earlier in this thread not so we could bombard politicians/CDC etc. with research, but so we could be clear ourselves. And to point out the IDSA's deception which is now clearly right out front. To be pointed out to others.

Simply put, two out of three does not equal zero!

It makes me think of the "one in ten" slogan that was (is?) associated with the gay rights movement. I remember seeing that spray-painted on the streets (inside pink triangles) when I was in college. Everyone noticed. A simple number can get attention quickly when it's not what's expected. And it sticks in the brain.

Two out of three - they painfully admit two out of three - and they're denying us care based on "no evidence"... it's criminal.

We do need to shout, absolutely.

[ 13. October 2006, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: ldfighter ]

Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :

Sorry, LDfighter, I hadn't even read your post. I posted info in Lou's thread in general & was asked to post for tincup.

I guess I misunderstood the meaning of the war declared. Your information was great, thanks for posting it.

I'll butt out & come back later to see what you & tincup have decided to do. I really should be tending to other issues of my own anyway.

[Frown]

PS- for clarification: It was not my thought to bombard them with research, but to have the information & sources organized for when they try to sue our collective @$$ off for challenging them.

Posted by TNJanet (Member # 10031) on :

Hello Lymies!
I wrote my US Congressman a couple of weeks ago giving a first person account of the ravages of CHRONIC Lyme. Yesterday I received a response via snail mail. The first part of the letter was a vague acknowledgement that Lyme is a HORRIBLE DISEASE.

The last part of the letter said, "As I am sure you are aware, there were only 8 cases of Lyme in Tennessee reported to the CDC."

I am sure this letter was written by an aide. I want to write back because this Congressman, Rep. Jimmy Duncan, Jr. (R) has always been responsive to constituents as was his father before him. It is what he is known for around these parts.

I know how to address CDC reporting (as in IT IS NOT DONE) but besides that I have no information for rebuttal. I could use the fact that there is not one physician in my state who is treating chronic Lyme, at least as identified.

What advice does anyone out there have about what else I might do? Feel free to PM me if necessary.

I am just so angry. Can't get diagnosed and can't get treatment. I see Dr. J in NC early next month and we know how his hands are tied right now.

[rant]

CRAP! Janet

Posted by ldfighter (Member # 9405) on :

AliG, my comments weren't meant as a response to yours - I'm sorry if it sounded that way. Just general thoughts after reading through the thread & the concerns about whether people should be shouting or researching, or both. I think we're all more in agreement here than it may seem at first.

I do agree with the stuff you wrote & thanks for posting all that info! [Smile]

Posted by dontlikeliver (Member # 4749) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sometimesdilly:
I think there is a confusion about what audiences are being/should be targeted.

DLL, I don't hear anybody saying lets go whine to or shout at the ISDA. I think we're all clear that would be a great big ole waste of time.

The question is, which people or orgs, etc. can make a difference, and what kind of influence/pressure can be brought to bear on them?

I think there is lots of room for creativity here, and different tactics, depending on who is being approached.

Going to speak with your rep in a home district? You're gonna need some facts to go along with a righteously angry voice. Ditto writing letters to reps or newspapers. You can't expect anyone out there to Get It unless YOU can explain it.

My point about coming up with a fact sheet/list of talking points is that IMO,anyone wanting to be involved needs to be well informed. That doesn't mean understanding all the science, just having an overview of what is going on here.

Let Ali's list of NIH money being poured into Steere's pockets sink in. Think about it. OUR taxpayer dollars are being spent on an effort to keep us from gettign well, and allowing many thousand others to get chronic. Stopping taxpayer dollars from going to a particular place- now that IS something that is possible to do.

First, the IDSA's lyme group must be made radioactive.

Here's an example that could be done in the town of every compliict member of the ISDA:

In Baltimore: Anyone close enough to drive to Baltimore? Let's organize a demonstration at Johns Hopkins, as close as is legal to get to where J. Stephen Dumler spends his day. Bring signs that scream (JH's Dumler's science= lyme brain damage- like that). Have phamplets to distribute. Contact the student and city newspapers ahead of time, and every support group for the chronically ill in town. Have the purpose of the demonstration be a letter that is hand delivered to Dumler's higher ups that express outrage at his participation in writing guidelines that are so clearly POLITICAL.

I've done this kind of organizing before, folks, and it DOES make a difference.

Dilly

I think I've been misunderstood. I'm not 'telling' anyone to do or not to do anything, but only stating that I think (you or anyone doesn't have to agree with me) the IDSA, CDC for instance know all about all the studies that we might like to point out to them but that it is power that is the problem, not that they are not aware of chronic Lyme (it's existence) or long-term antibiotics (it's effectiveness).

So, please do not take it as a criticism by me towards anyone. All work is good work in education the public and politicians, etc.

Posted by sometimesdilly (Member # 9982) on :

DLL- oh, I ain't that delicate. I didn't feel criticized at all. And I couldn't agree with you more about where the "power" is a the moment.

I'm just a big believer in the power of grass root organizing to CHANGE the balance of power. The ISDA lyme-guys use public financing for their research. So I look at that as a target. Because WE are the people agreeing OR NOT AGREEING to fund their research-- it is a point of vulnerability for them.

Dilly -(PS, Ali- way to go, lady with so much to deal with!!!)

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Oh wow!

It's hard to type when I have my face up to the screen... kissing it! Lucky you.. my lips ain't big enough to reach right through the screen to your face!

YES!

Exactly what I need!!!

No one worry about junking up the posts. This stuff is EXACTLY what I need.

ALL comments about "dirt" is what I need. This is so great! Will you marry me?

[Big Grin]

Now.. there are LOTS of things we all could be doing.. true. Right now I am not debating that. For what I am doing.. I need this info you all are providing.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

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Ali.. if you stop now, I am going to have to ride my horse over there and whip up on you.

As soon as I get a horse that is! [Wink]

Keep up the work. You are on the right track... LOTS of grand stuff! Don't stop now!!!

I've already forwarded your stuff. THANKS!!!!

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Well pooey.. I can't see the other recent posts to reply. Back in a minute! Duh me...

[Big Grin]

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Beverly...

It's been a long time. It's SO nice to see you!

[Big Grin]

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Hmmmm.. got several big "A"s here now.. Ok. Areneli..

You mentioned we may need several million dollars to do a class action.

Not to worry. I'm made of money. HA!

Ok.. actually... it may not cost us a nickle. Working on some good stuff.

``````````````````````````````````````````````

I love Texas! And the folks there. (MH, P). Good Chaos! Glad you and others are willing to help.
```````````````````````````````````````````

ConnieMc.. good advise. Will do.

````````````````````````````````````````````

DocDave.. if I didn't respond to you yet.. just so you know.. I did contact them per your suggestion. Haven't heard back yet. Hoping to. Thanks!

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Nice to see BettyG.

You seem to have something I don't. The ability to organize to make work much easier. Yes.. good idea.

Would YOU be able to make an ongoing list.. ON THE BOARD only... to let others know who is digging into who's dirt?

I would.. but you are much better at it than I could ever think to be.

If possible... thanks! If not possible... please stick you head in a bucket of COLD water and don't lift it out till you change your mind... ok?

[Big Grin]

```````````````````````````````````````````````

Dilly...

Yes.. "Meanwhile, I think I'll start compiling an IDSA fact sheet of my own, will share it when complete in case anyone finds it useful..."

MOST helpful for MANY! None of us have time to tackle that project! We need to share it across the country... so VERY good idea.

If possible, good! If not possible... please see my suggestion for BettyG above!

[Big Grin]

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DLL..

Waving to you across the big blue!

Yes.. it's about power. Evil power!

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Truth..

VERY interesting! The dirt seems much deeper than I could have imagined. Scary! Keep up the good posts... PLEASE!

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Yo down there in the Cave..

You said.. "They aren't playing by the *rules*."

I hate to say it.. but you are, you are, you are,

rrr, rrrii, rrriiigggh, RIGHT!

[Big Grin]

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Lou.. Ali said.. "Thanks for the new toy, Lou!"

I thank you too!

[Big Grin]

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Dilly said .. "OUR taxpayer dollars are being spent on an effort to keep us from gettign well, and allowing many thousand others to get chronic. Stopping taxpayer dollars from going to a particular place- now that IS something that is possible to do."

Another grand idea! Yes.. you are right.

[Big Grin]

```````````````````````````````````````````````

ld fighter.. It is getting long in the day. Trying to absorb/understand the 2/3 thing. Am not getting it. MY fault. Can you help me on that?

If so, thanks.. If not, please see what I told BettyG and Dilly to do.

``````````````````````````````````````````````

TN letter writer..

"What advice does anyone out there have about what else I might do?"

Want my advise? Ok..

Go to Dr. J... and support him the best you can. Stay focused. Then hang here and be ready to join in together with as many folks as we can get. I know first hand.. these are evil things we are dealing with. The Bumsteere gang doesn't play by the rules. If they did, we'd be eating 'em for breakfast.

I've spent years one on one. Got no where. This dirty stuff is much bigger than me or any single person. We need an attorney (or God himself) to rattle their cages and grab them by the purse strings.. and shake some sense into them.

We need to be PRO-Active rather than RE-Active. Instead of running around trying to put out fires.. we need to mow them down with al our force.. then hold them down.. climb on their bellies... and tickle their feet till they scream "uncle".

Then we need to grab them by the ear.. or pinch their noses real hard... and tell them..

"That will be enough of that stuff".

Don't feel frustrated.. please. I think ALL of us know we MUST join forces and work together.

OK?

[ 13. October 2006, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Tincup ]

Posted by dontlikeliver (Member # 4749) on :

double post

Posted by dontlikeliver (Member # 4749) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sometimesdilly:
DLL- oh, I ain't that delicate. I didn't feel criticized at all. And I couldn't agree with you more about where the "power" is a the moment.

I'm just a big believer in the power of grass root organizing to CHANGE the balance of power. The ISDA lyme-guys use public financing for their research. So I look at that as a target. Because WE are the people agreeing OR NOT AGREEING to fund their research-- it is a point of vulnerability for them.

Dilly -(PS, Ali- way to go, lady with so much to deal with!!!)

I agree.

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Who wants to tackle these toads? In bold, below.

My theory has been the "scleroderma clinic" they have.. which is supposedly next to the Lyme clinic...

Well, my thought is.. it ain't scleroderma. It's Lyme.. the chronic form.. ACA. They look exactly the same!!!

Ironicly, they treat for Lyme for too short of a time.. then they open a sclerodermic clinic next door to further mess with those they misdiagnosed or under treated with early Lyme.

They treat the scleroderma with STEROIDS.. and give the people a 5 year life expectency.. IF that!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

Of course this is MY opinion...

JERKS!

````````````````````````````````````````````````

1: Arthritis Rheum. 1993 Nov;36(11)

Arthritis Rheum. 1993 Nov;36(11):1489-92.

"Chronic Lyme disease" as the incorrect diagnosis in patients with fibromyalgia.

Hsu VM, Patella SJ, Sigal LH.

Department of Medicine, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey-

Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, New Brunswick 08903-0019.

OBJECTIVE. To evaluate a large number of patients referred with persistent symptoms thought to represent chronic Lyme disease.

METHODS. We retrospectively reviewed the charts of nearly 800 patients referred with persisting nonspecific musculoskeletal and/or neurologic symptoms thought to represent chronic Lyme disease.

RESULTS. Seventy-seven patients were found to have fibromyalgia, not ongoing Lyme disease, as the explanation of their chronic symptoms. Many had received multiple courses of antibiotic therapy for symptoms of fibromyalgia mistakenly attributed to chronic Lyme disease.

No patient reported permanent and/or total resolution of fibromyalgia symptoms following antibiotic therapy. Appropriate therapy for fibromyalgia in those who remained compliant, however, was often effective in improving some if not all of the chronic symptoms.

CONCLUSION. Fibromyalgia is a treatable and potentially curable disorder, and should be considered in the evaluation of patients with "refractory Lyme disease."

PMID: 8240427 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Posted by TNJanet (Member # 10031) on :

Tincup,

I loved your remarks and believe everything you said to be true. And I believe that anything we do as a group is better done away from this message board.

I appreciate your advice about my doc. I WILL DO because he's just incredible and I don't think he is just sitting around letting what happened to him change him or his true regard for his patients.

I am preparing myself and I will be ready to do any and everything to stop these tax dollar funded fat cats from dictating my medical treatment.

If it takes a village to raise a child, it takes thousands of raving lymies to raise awareness that a group of short sighted ducktors are

mishandling federal funds and denying care to some of the most vulnerable citizens in the US of A.

I'm a child of the sixties and I know how to march and I know how to protest and I know how to influence the political system....I'll just do it from my Hoverround this time.

Any other ole protestors around this board? [Big Grin]

Posted by sometimesdilly (Member # 9982) on :

Google "2006 ISDA lyme guidelines" and this thread comes up in the top 10 hits. Labeled "Dirt and war... etc."

Not great.

Dilly

[ 14. October 2006, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: sometimesdilly ]

Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :

Any chronic lymies have a need for any of these drugs?

Pfizer Has Never Been Stronger, Steere Tells Shareholders

Company's Record Over the Past Decade and Warner-Lambert Combination Will 'Uniquely Equip' Pfizer to Continue 'Legacy of Achievement'

NEW YORK, April 27 /PRNewswire/ -- Pfizer Inc (NYSE: PFE) has strong fundamentals, and is advancing in every area, William C. Steere, Jr., chairman and chief executive officer, said today at the company's 2000 Annual Meeting of Shareholders.

Speaking to a crowd of 2,000 shareholders and guests at the Grand Hyatt hotel in New York City, Mr. Steere said, "Nineteen ninety-nine -- the year in which we celebrated our 150th year of operation -- crowned a decade of extraordinary achievement for Pfizer."

During that time, he noted, prescription pharmaceutical revenue increased five-fold, R&D expenditures increased six-fold, reported net income increased four-fold and the price of the company's stock increased by 10-fold.

"Throughout every year of the last decade," he said, "the growth of our pharmaceutical revenue has surpassed that of the industry, and in 1999, it more than doubled the industry rate.

"For the 50th year in a row," he continued, "Pfizer sales increased, and in 1999, our total revenues topped $16.2 billion, a 20-percent increase over the previous year."

"Pfizer is advancing in every area," Mr. Steere said. "Our fundamentals are strong. Our pipeline is broad and deep, and our field forces are second to none."

"Our prospects have never been brighter and our future has never been more promising," he said. "In 1999, Pfizer celebrated 150 years of tremendous growth and achievement.

I believe that in the next 150 years, we will achieve even more. By joining forces with Warner-Lambert, we will create a company
that is uniquely equipped to carry Pfizer's proud legacy of achievement into the next millennium."

Henry A. McKinnell, Ph.D., president and chief operating officer of Pfizer Inc and president of Pfizer Pharmaceuticals Group, and John F. Niblack, Ph.D., vice chairman of Pfizer Inc, also addressed the meeting.

"Within our worldwide pharmaceutical segment," Dr. McKinnell said, "new Pfizer products, established in-line products and co-promoted products helped increase total revenues by 22 percent in 1999.

Ten key products, representing about 80 percent of our pharmaceutical revenues, together grew by 31 percent."

Nine of those 10 key products, he noted, have significant remaining patent protection in the U.S., with expirations ranging from 2004 through 2013.

The Consumer Health Care Group saw sales increase by 7 percent during 1999, he said. "In addition to providing convenient treatment,
self-medication can extend the commercial life of a pharmaceutical well beyond its patent expiration," he explained.

Dr. McKinnell also cited the Animal Health Group as, "the most active and most productive animal health operation in the global industry, with research in over a dozen therapeutic areas for both livestock and companion animals."

He said that Pfizer has "a growing pipeline of genetically engineered vaccines, gene-therapy products and novel, convenient-to-use medications for animals that could dramatically expand the standard of care and the overall
market for companion animals and livestock."

Regarding the pending merger with Warner-Lambert, Dr. McKinnell said, "The merger brings together the industry's two fastest-growing major companies.

Together, on a pro-forma basis for 1999, the 'new Pfizer' had nearly $28 billion in combined revenues, with nearly $21 billion in prescription pharmaceutical sales."

With Pfizer by itself already solidly within the top ranks of the industry in pharmaceutical sales, the combination with Warner-Lambert will propel Pfizer well ahead of the rest of the industry, he said.

Pfizer was the 14th largest company in the world in total pharmaceutical sales in 1990.

"But it is important to emphasize that the 'new Pfizer' will be not just bigger, but better," he said.

"Our already superior growth prospects will be
augmented by an enhanced global reach and by immediate opportunities from our complementary product lines."

The combined companies will have 13 pharmaceutical products with sales in excess of $500 million each, eight with more than $1 billion in sales in 1999 and nine products which are number one in their therapeutic category, he said.

The addition of the Warner-Lambert consumer organization will result in "a formidable platform for prescription to over-the-counter switches," he added.

"Our planning for the integration of Pfizer and Warner-Lambert has focused on three essential tasks," he said.

"Maximizing our new product opportunities to increase our sales, eliminating redundancies and adopting best practices to reduce our costs, and building a world-class organization capable of strong and sustained growth."

Dr. McKinnell concluded, "It is clear that the merger provides substantial benefits to shareholders of both companies in terms of improved financial returns and accelerated earnings growth.

Besides giving us a broad, young portfolio, the merger should yield significant cost savings going forward.

These cost savings alone will accelerate our projected compounded annual net income growth through 2002 to at least 25 percent, excluding one-time transition and restructuring charges.

The result: A truly unique business combination in which the best -- Pfizer and Warner-Lambert -- get better."

Dr. Niblack highlighted the seven key products in the late-stage of the Pfizer development pipeline and discussed the integration of Warner-Lambert R&D into Pfizer.

Tikosyn, a treatment for atrial fibrillation (AF), was launched during the first quarter of 2000, and was the first new oral treatment for AF approved for use in the U.S. in the past 10 years.

"It is an excellent therapeutic advance for highly symptomatic AF patients and is an important addition to our already substantial cardiovascular product portfolio," Dr. Niblack said.

Relpax, for the treatment of migraine headache, received an approvable letter from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) late last year, he said.

"Clinical data show that within one hour of taking an oral dose of Relpax, up to 40 percent of patients with moderate or severe migraine
experience significant or complete headache relief," Dr. Niblack said "Many see relief within 30 minutes."

The company is about to file new data and
analyses called for by FDA in the approvable letter, and expects to engage in final discussions over labeling in the Summer.

"Last month we re-submitted our new drug application (NDA) for oral Zeldox," Dr. Niblack said, explaining that FDA had wanted an additional study done comparing Zeldox with other antipsychotic drugs.

"Zeldox is effective across its dose range in treating a broad spectrum of psychotic symptoms," he said, "and has been shown to be effective in long-term disease management.

In contrast to some of the other newer antipsychotic agents, Zeldox causes little
to no weight gain and has a favorable effect on cholesterol and triglyceride levels."

The company plans to file an NDA for Vfend, for the treatment of serious fungal infections, this year, Dr. Niblack said.

"Vfend will provide new hope for patients who contract serious life-threatening fungal infections such as invasive aspergillosis, resistant candidiasis and infections of the brain and eye."

Inhaled insulin, a new technology for the treatment of diabetes Pfizer is developing in collaboration with Aventis and Inhale Therapeutic Systems, is well along in clinical development and an NDA filing with FDA is expected next year, Dr. Niblack said.

"Our clinical data show that when used to treat insulin-dependent or Type 1 diabetes, this patient-friendly insulin delivery system is as effective as subcutaneous injections of short-acting insulin," he said.

Pfizer is co-developing valdecoxib, a second-generation cyclo-oxygenase 2 (COX-2) inhibitor for the treatment of osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis and pain, with Pharmacia Corporation, which is scheduled to file an NDA for the drug near the end of this year, Dr. Niblack said.

The first COX-2 inhibitor, Celebrex, was discovered by Pharmacia's Searle unit, which
co-promotes the drug with Pfizer.

Darifenacin is a new Pfizer agent for the treatment of overactive bladder, which afflicts more than 50 million people in the U.S., Europe and Japan.

Studies are underway at 50 centers in Europe, with more to begin in the U.S. later this year, Dr. Niblack said.

In addition to these advanced candidates, he said, "Pfizer has a full pipeline of compounds in earlier stages of clinical development and in
discovery.

We also have research projects underway to explore new uses for our marketed drugs, to generate new product formulations, to investigate new patient populations (such as pediatrics) and to develop convenient new product
combinations."

After the integration of Warner-Lambert's R&D organization, Pfizer Global Research & Development will be "the largest pharmaceutical research and development operation in the world," he said, "with approximately 12,000 employees, facilities in more than 20 countries, more than 130 experimental drugs in development and a budget of some $4.7 billion."

"When the integration is completed," Dr. Niblack said, "the combination of our two great research operations will clearly position us as one of the premier, privately funded biomedical research organizations in the world.

It's an exciting prospect. I expect that the new Pfizer Global R&D organization will set a new standard for quality and productivity for our
industry."

SOURCE Pfizer Inc

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Sorry Dilly..

I have no clue what you are talking about. MY fault.

First of all... I don't "google". I tried to Yahoo.. but can't figure out what you are talking about.

Also.. I don't PM.

Did you mean to put a link in your post? Or an article?

Can you make what you are talking about clearer? Please?

Thanks!

[Big Grin]

Posted by sometimesdilly (Member # 9982) on :

TinCup-

about google. you may not use google as a search engine, but LOTS of folks do.

right now, ANYONE who wants to find information of any sort about the ISDA guidelines who uses google to search, who types in "2006 IDSA Guidelines" for a search sees THIS THREAD listed in the top ten links of where to go.

I can't imagine how that is desirable, and anyone posting here should at least be made aware of the possible scrutiny.

Given the circumstances, I think it is a really good idea to keep work like this off the board and someplace private that those working on it can access independently--but no-one else. For everyone's sake. I know how to set that up and can do it quickly.

I'm not going to post here about how to do that, for obvious reasons.

Others have volunteered to help with the fact sheet I mentioned, and we are going to collaborate in the way I'm mentioning. I'll be happy to help set up a private way for you and others to work together on the conflict-of-interest project so that everyone can see what others have done.

I can't PM you cause you don't have it. But I assume you can PM me if you want, so just let me know if you want to pursue that option.

Dilly

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Dilly...

You said..

"right now, ANYONE who wants to find information of any sort about the ISDA guidelines who uses google to search, who types in "2006 IDSA Guidelines" for a search sees THIS THREAD listed in the top ten links of where to go."

You may see this as a bad thing.. but actually.. isn't it a good thing?

Don't we want folks to know there are BIG time problems with those guidlines... and that folks who have been hurt by using ones by the same group of nit wits in the past have been harmed?

And don't we want folks.. including the nit wits to know we aren't going away?

Soooooooo.. if it is coming up on google.. that's pretty cool... yes? And a lot cheaper than hiring a sky writer with a plane to send out the message.

I'm not going to worry about the Worm and others right now. We are trying to help folks so they won't fall into the same trap that TONS of others have fallen into. And MAYBE if new folks are directed here by that google thing... they will get help? BUT...

Certainly if you want to work behind the scenes.. feel free to do so.

After all these years.. I want folks to KNOW the scoop.. and at least be able to see there is ANOTHER side to Lyme diagnosis and treatment.

Guess google is giving us free advertising!

[Big Grin]

PS.. No.. if you don't allow incoming PM's.. you can't send outgoing ones. Sorry!

Posted by sometimesdilly (Member # 9982) on :

TinCup-

Yes of course I want people to understand about what is going on-- that's why I'm spending so much time suggesting ways to DO JUST THAT- in a informed way.

As for the rest. NO, I do NOT think it is a good thing for people who don't have a clue to parachute into the lyme world and by way of introduction, read a post that talks about digging up dirt on individuals and declaring a war.

Language matters, and that isn't the language I would choose to discuss the guidelines with as yet uninformed people i hoped to sway to to my side.

And of course I'm not worried about folk friendly to the IDSA monitoring the board- I assume that is the case. I AM concerned my privacy here on the board and that of others being invaded by a host of potential trolls and worse- google isn't a door, its a floodgate.

Last, I'm baffled that you wouldn't bother to check out what alternatives might exist to make some of this work collaborative AND private. Is that fair to the people you are asking to help?

For myself, I've deleted as many of my posts from this thread as my cooked brain could find, and am removing myself from this particular effort. I just am very uncomfortable about the process.

Since the goal of challenging the ISDA guidelines is so critical, I'm going to be working very hard "behind the scene" and very much in front of the scene, on this board and as many places and with as many people as I can find elsewhere.

Now its really time for bed.

Dilly

[ 14. October 2006, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: sometimesdilly ]

Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :

Tincup, I'll be back around noonish when I can spend some time reading this more; skimmed it briefly now and saw my name mentioned several times.

TC, awhile back one of our lymenetters pointed out there was a google post on lymenet. So I checked it out, and it was a roll call with nicknames and real names galore. I wasn't aware that type of thing existed.

Perhaps this is what Dilly was trying to say to you since so many of you WISH TO BE ANONYMOUS!
later gals, Bettyg [cussing]

Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :

Tincup, you and other ``activists'' need to be careful out there. Well, maybe we all do.

It appears that Elena Cook - the author of the article about the Steere camp and the Epidemic Intelligence Service (EIS) which is referred to elsewhere in this thread - AN ARTICLE WHICH EVERYONE SHOULD READ - was arrested at her home in the UK early this summer!

quote:
Statement regarding my Detention
by Elena Cook
7 July 2006

Many of my colleagues in the Lyme movement know that I have been researching the conflicts of interest of the "Steere camp"* of Lyme doctors, especially as regards their connections with the US biowarfare establishment, for some time. I have been very open about this work and written about my findings, and those of others, in the public domain (see list of links below). As a result of this work I have become the target of literally thousands of libellous and hate-filled messages placed anonymously on the internet by a tiny handful of individuals associated with the Steere camp........

.........I was involved in discussions with others in the Lyme movement about the use of darkfield microscopy for rapid detection of the Lyme disease bacteria in a simple blood smear [sound a little like the Bowen test?]. This technique has been used with apparent success by a number of European doctors, but is vehemently ridiculed by the Steere camp....

...Around this time both I and several colleagues began to experience severe problems with our communications. These included problems with land and mobile phones, and computer hacking. I had my firewall logs examined by two separate IT experts who both found evidence that the attempts were conducted by machines registered to the US Navy, Marine Corps, and Defense Intelligence Agency. My colleagues found the same sources in their firewalls too. One friend found that her dial-up account was being targeted by a US military computer every half hour on the half hour. When she tried to time her internet sessions to avoid these times, she then found that the timing, though still half-hourly, was altered to fit in with the times she was logging in.

...Finally in late April the harassment culminated with a threat placed on an internet Lyme group directed at my children. The same day I reported it to the police, a close friend in England had to leap out of the way to avoid an oncoming car, speeding the wrong way down a pedestrianised lane in her local shopping precinct.

On 8 May 2006, three police officers, two doctors, two social workers and a community psychiatric nurse arrived without warning at my door. They had a warrant for my arrest......

http://www.lyme-rage.info/elena/statejun06.html

So, do you think perhaps the Steerites are a little testy about their deceitful and illicit associations becoming public knowledge in the Lyme community?

It is one thing to be ignored - another thing to be attacked. It is actually a good sign that some toes are getting stepped on, but I say again - be careful out there.

Tracy

Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :

Ali, there is this guy who was part of the ``Host Committee'' for the Fiftieth Anniversary Celebration in 2001 of - you guessed it - the Epidemic Intelligence Service (EIS), the sub-group of the CDC to which many of the Steerites belong:

Allen C. Steere, Jr., M.D.
New England Medical Center
Wellesley, Mass.

Tracy

Posted by aiden424 (Member # 7633) on :

It's so hard for me to understand this whole dispute with Lyme treatment. It's hard to figure out why anyone would try to keep someone from getting the treatment they need to get well.

Antibiotics are used long term for other things beside Lyme and no one seems to have a problem with it. My kids were on antibiotics for years for acne. I read that it can take months to years of antibiotics to treat a mycoplasma infection.

It is so cruel to have to be so sick and to have to fight so hard to get treatment. I've lost 20 years of my life because my doctors were to stupid to figure out what was wrong with me. I would really like to go after them and make them accountable!!

This whole thing really sucks!!

Kathy

Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :

I think I'd kind of prefer to think that "the love of money is the route of all evil". (thanks PITA [Wink]

) All that EIS stuff scares the bejeepers out of me. I don't think I can even go there in my head right now. It freaks me out.

I think the primary motivation for a cover-up is greed or self-preservation. Usually you can get to the source by following the money. The key questions being, who stands to gain the most and who stands to lose the most.

If there is a in fact a connection between Allen Steere and William C. Steere, Jr, I think that could explain a lot of motivation right there.

Pfizer's drugs are all designed to treat symptoms of chronic lyme. The IDSA recommended treatment for Lyme is short dose ABX with symptomatic treatment with Pfizer type drugs into infinity.

I think we should find a way to check into stock ownership of all these poopie-heads.

[ 15. October 2006, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: AliG ]

Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :

Hey, Ali - sorry, but this has to do with the dratted EIS again, but speaking of Pfizer.....

``The CDC Foundation is working with EIS to increase the number of international officers in each EIS class and is seeking support from foundations, corporations and individuals to fund the larger enrollment and provide stipends for EIS students.''

Here were some of the 2001 donors contributing to this fund:

Chairman's Circle ($50,000+ donations)

Johnson & Johnson
New Brunswick, N.J.

The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
Princeton, N.J.

Marcus Foundation
Atlanta, Ga.

Pfizer Inc., US Pharmaceuticals [Big Grin]

Whitehouse Station, N.J.

Wyeth-Ayerst Research & Wyeth Lederle Vaccines
Radnor, Pa.

Champions ($25,000+ donations)

Delta Airlines Inc
Atlanta, Ga.

TRW
Cleveland, Ohio

UPS Foundation
Atlanta, Ga.

Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :

Oh, and at the risk of being a PITA.......the saying is:

``THE LOVE OF money is the root of all evil''.
Money is just a tool, just like computers, cars, stoves, guns, and belt-sanders. But people will always find ways to misuse these tools or be careless enough to cause injury to themselves or others.

Tracy [Big Grin]

Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :

Just some more creepy stuff:

ADS Newsletter

Belmont report

EPO Scientific Procedures

I can't get through any of these links

protocols have "justification" for waiver of informed consent

This is disturbing, note Scenario #2: http://www.cdc.gov/epo/ads/newsletters/adsnews-7-ethics[1].htm

"Scenario 2: Why would we put a lot of work and resources to establishing an ethics committee so you could put your name on a paper?

A CDC investigator is assigned as a consultant in a developing country. Recognizing the public health benefits of an ethics committee, the investigator wants to recommend to the Ministry of Health (MOH) that such a committee be established.

However, the MOH appears unwilling to invest the resources to form a committee. What should the investigator tell the MOH staff to persuade them to establish an ethic committee?

Most likely, the MOH already has an idea of what the public health benefits would be, but the investigator would do well to reiterate these benefits, e.g., improve research practices, better cooperation between investigators and research subjects, improved international cooperation.

These benefits should be described in detail, as well as any additional long-term benefits, what the processes and requirements are for forming a committee, and the kind of resources needed.

The MOH may find that it is more feasible than they thought. It may help to provide specific examples of the benefits and experiences from other countries.

An additional consideration for the MOH is that, from CDC perspective, the investigator is limited as to the types of activities he or she can be involved in, particularly research involving human subjects. Some of these restrictions may be overcome if the research can be reviewed and approved by a local ethics committee and the CDC IRB. "

CDC surveillance sydrome definitions

Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :

OK Tracy,
You're a PITA [Razz]

Dilly,
If you would like to try to put my gobbledygoop in some sort of organized form on your wiki. That's fine with me.

My brain is very disorganized right now and I'm all over the place with research. I keep getting distracted & going off on tangents. (In case, noone has noticed [Big Grin]

)

I printed out Tincups request and I've scribbled all over it. I think I need to write up a method for myself with research links, so I know what I've done already.
[dizzy]

Posted by sometimesdilly (Member # 9982) on :

Because its you, Malarone buddy Ali-

the two Steere's you keep bring up are supremely unlikely to be related. They are from different parts of the country, are of the same generation- a handful of years apart in age-- and both are Juniors. If they were even as close as cousins, one would be a III, not a Junior.

Take care- the truths to be found are damning enough... Dilly

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Cave said..

"But then I have to admit that maybe there is a plan in tinny's mind (or others) that I'm not aware of. Probably."

Oh Cave, you know me all too well, tee hee hee.

[Big Grin]

Keep up the good work everyone! And know I appreciate what you are doing so BERRY MUSH!

And to those who are emailing me info... GOOD WORK!

[Big Grin]

Posted by pigwit (Member # 9059) on :

Sometimes, it may help to follow the money. On Tuesday, Yale School of Medicine received $57 million Clinical Translational Science Award (CTSA) from NIH according to www.yale.edu.

Interestingly, 4 of our last 6 Presidents have been graduates of Yale. Current and former President Bush are members of Yale's Skull & Bones Society. So is John Kerry. I understand that a number of major law firms on Wall Street and in Washington D.C. were started by Skull & bones members.

This may not have anything to do with anything, but it seems creepy.

Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :

LDFIGHTER,

quoting TINCUP... Nice to see BettyG.

You seem to have something I don't. The ability to organize to make work much easier. Yes.. good idea.

Would YOU be able to make an ongoing list.. ON THE BOARD only... to let others know who is digging into who's dirt?

I would.. but you are much better at it than I could ever think to be.

If possible... thanks! If not possible... please stick you head in a bucket of COLD water and don't lift it out till you change your mind... ok?
```````````````````````````````````````````````
Dilly...
Yes.. "Meanwhile, I think I'll start compiling an IDSA fact sheet of my own, will share it when complete in case anyone finds it useful..."

MOST helpful for MANY! None of us have time to tackle that project! We need to share it across the country... so VERY good idea.

If possible, good! If not possible... please see my suggestion for BettyG above!
********************************

LDfigter, would you have time to organize an online list for Tincup of which names in TC's long list of folks are being researched and BY WHOM?

I do NOT have the time; NO ENERGY; COMPLETE FATIGUE is what I've been going thru since July and it's worse now.

I can't take anything more on than what I have right now ... sending newbie lnks/advise to them upon arrival, helping them get LLMDs in their state, and helping on the board plus all the PMs they send me.

Dilly edited her post, and will NOT be working on this project; she'll be doing something else.

So sorry Tincup, but I have 4-6 legislative letters to write and they are important too!

I've routing you all on from my corner of the world. Bettyg [group hug]

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Betty G..

Didn't know you were feeling so poorly!!! Had I known I wouldn't have bothered you.

Oh.. by the way.. do take your head out of the cold bucket of water. You are excused from duty for now.

Feel better soon!!! If I can do anything for you.. just ask. OK?

[Big Grin]

Hey pig..

You LIKE being called pig? I hope so! Or do you prefer your full given name.. pigwit?

Or .. ok.. now I AM laughing.. would you prefer sssssuuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeee?

Sorry.. sometimes I can't help myself. You can take the girl off the farm.. but you can't take the farm out of the girl.

Anyhow... Good idea and info!! Will be used.

THANKS!!

[Big Grin]

``````````````````````````````````````````````

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

To all who have shared and researched...

Just so you know. The info has been sent to several others who needed it to use as they see fit.

As well, I am working day and night using your work to support this work I am doing. I'm ALMOST done with a project that has literally taking me weeks to put together. (About 20 pages which need condensing to about 5.) Have other pages to develop too that should go far and wide.

So do know I am appreciating all you are doing.

Thank you!!

[Big Grin]

Posted by wentworth (Member # 10359) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
I am officially declaring war on ducks and duck motels!

NO MORE MR. NICE GUY!

We MUST start working together.. ASAP!

Some folks with Lyme are already feeling the effects of the latest IDSA guidelines.. and are unable to refill prescriptions they desperately need. You could be next.

By the way.. the CDC has just posted the IDSA guidelines on their web site.

Now more folks will end up suffering.. LOTS more folks.. because to "have Lyme" now.. the doctors must see a rash... and if they don't.. you need to test positive on both ELISA and Western Blot to get a maximum of 28 days treatment... IF you get that.

ENOUGH OF THE INSANITY! ENOUGH OF THE ARROGANCE! ENOUGH OF THE IDIOTS! ENOUGH OF THE EVIL! ENOUGH OF THE MONOPOLY ON OUR HEALTH CARE!

We want dirt on any of the following groups/people... and any conflicts of interest, patents they have, connections with insurance... ANYTHING you can share or dig up. I am furiously writing and researching.. and compiling the information... and could use your help.

Either email me or post your info here... please. It will be sent to the proper authorities.. for sure.

I appreciate the help, more than you will ever know... as I am worn down and still trying to push as hard as I can.

Thank you!!!

[email protected]

Here is a list of the first line of ducks and duck motels I am requesting help with.. if you please.

The IDSA

Gary P. Wormser

Raymond J. Dattwyler

Eugene D. Shapiro

John J. Halperin

Allen C. Steere

Mark S. Klempner

Peter J. Krause

Johan S. Bakken

Franc Strle

Gerold Stanek

Linda Bockenstedt

Durland Fish

J. Stephen Dumler

Robert B. Nadelman

Divisions of Infectious Diseases and Allergy, Immunology, and Rheumatology, Department of
Medicine, New York Medical College, Valhalla, and New York University School of Medicine,
New York, New York

Atlantic Neuroscience Institute, Summit, New Jersey

Departments of Pediatrics and Epidemiology and Public Health and Section of Rheumatology, Department of Medicine, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, and Department of Pediatrics,
University of Connecticut School of Medicine and Connecticut Children's Medical Center,
Hartford

Division of Rheumatology, Allergy, and Immunology, Massachusetts General Hospital,
Harvard Medical School, and Boston University School of Medicine and Boston Medical
Center, Boston, Massachusetts

Section of Infectious Diseases, St. Luke's Hospital, Duluth, Minnesota

Division of Medical Microbiology, Department of Pathology, The Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, Maryland

Department of Infectious Diseases, University
Medical Center, Ljubljana, Slovenia; and Medical University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria

Again.. thank you!

You are right I just got dined!!!!!!!!

I guess my next step ROB A PHARMACY for my MEDICIAN
welcome to America [bonk]

Posted by SuZ-Q (Member # 5903) on :

Hey Tinny,

Will you be able to share with us your plans for this info at some point in the future? I know you can't yet. My hubby thinks we should make copies of all the dirt articles to send to all of our Congressmen(including the articles by Elena Cook) I suggested that we might want to send them out to as many investigative reporters as possible and see if any of them bite. The injustice must be made not just public, but truly of high profile visibility.
Good luck with your project!!!
Suzy
sorry I haven't been of any help, daughter's not doing so well and I'm out on short term disability at the moment, but I am trying to read every day or so to keep up with what's going on(guess that's called "lurking"- sounds so sinister)Hopefully, I can be more active in the future.

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Went.. you are right.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Hey Suzy-Q..

So sorry to hear of both you and your daughter being down. It breaks my heart. Anything we can do to help? Do let me know... ok?

Tell your hubby I like him... and his ideas! VERY much!!! If he were here right now...

I'd share my special jar of okra pickles with him. Maybe? Hmmmmm... Ok.. he can have ONE!

[lick]

If you or anyone would like to use this information posted here.. may I suggest..

1. ALWAYS.. without a doubt.. DOUBLE check all information before it is used for any purpose. ALWAYS have at LEAST 2 dependable sources... better to have 4-5 if possible.

2. Don't worry about intruding on what I need the info for.. or using it while leaving me behind in the dust. By no means. GO FOR IT!

I am using it right now for back up in my research.. because I need documentation before pointing BIG fingers. Others are using it for other reasons I am not privy to. So please help yourself.

3. No matter what.. always follow rule #1.

`````````````````````````````````````````````

You said..

"I suggested that we might want to send them out to as many investigative reporters as possible and see if any of them bite. The injustice must be made not just public, but truly of high profile visibility."

When I am done with my okra.. I will post a new post about what might be done to help us with the Lyme situation.. or something to that effect. Please watch for it. Due to the hour.. I may wait till tomorrow... very tired now.

I will mention now that I've learned we should make noise.. but.. we need to be careful how we do it. YEARS ago folks went to a big news show.. and the people there did investigate an were ready to report. We didn't know they were "connected" with the dirty dogs at the time.

Turned out they had to threaten to sue to prevent negative stuff that the dirty ones were spewing at the time.

So it CAN backfire since the dogs don't play fair. We don't want that to happen.. for sure. It is a touchy thing.. and I am not even comfortable with it all.

In other words.. I've learned MY lesson the hard way. I find it is better to discuss plans with those of like mind.. then work out plans with the folks able/experienced to do that specific thing.

Again, try to look for my post when you have a chance. Big meeting upcoming.. step one.

In the meantime.. PLEASE.. you and anyone reading this...

DON'T wait on me.. and don't think I am trying to stop folks from going about doing what they feel may help the situation.

I am just trying to gather anyone who may want to work together to accomplish our goals. No one person can do it alone.. so the more the merrier. Plus.. we don't have time or energy to be duplicating efforts either. I know I don't.

Do let me know how you are doing.. ok? I hope you all are MUCH better real soon.

[Big Grin]

Posted by SuZ-Q (Member # 5903) on :

Hi Tinny,

Well, I know this is going to sound corny, but I just keep thinking how great it would be if someone like Woodward & Bernstein got hold of the Lyme story and exposed the "dogs." I also have a fantasy of some author, like Robin Cook, who writes medical thrillers, writing a novel based on the truths and intrigue of Lyme that would bring attention to the facts. But don't worry, I won't send out any info indisrciminately, and unfortunately, I don't have any contacts with any of the above anyway.

My hubby adores pickles!! You might want to hide them or put them under lock and key!

As far as daughter & I are concerned, we are hanging in there. Nothing about this disease is easy, especially when you are dealing with teenagers. Thanks for your concern.

Keep fighting the good fight. You are my hero!!

Suzy

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :

Hey Dilly girl..

Were you and your behind the scenes friends able to do the summary.. in plain English.. of the IDSA guidelines that you mentioned you would do previously?

Not trying to rush you.. not at all... but it would be VERY helpful to have... for many folks.. here and elsewhere. I don't want to ask others to work on it if you are almost done.

I've already contacted the states reps, from top to bottom.. and the media.. and many others.. but it would be nice to use the simple form to explain it in simpler terms to other folks we are contacting.

If you need help.. do lettuce know. Ok?

Thanks for trying... and again.. I'm not trying to rush you.. just wanting to know where we are on our progress meter.

[Big Grin]

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