Good afternoon all, The first report just came in via Tincup on the Philly conferences thus far.
Today was the LDA meeting, and from what I have been told, it has been one of the most informative gatherings yet.
There were over 300 in attendance, with standing room only. Many representatives from across the country included Healthcare providers, Researchers and Advocates.
The presenters and presentations were very strong with much scientific backing. Reinforcing what we have suspected for years, and also introducing new findings.
From what I understand, most of the research has been focused on the various forms of Bb...
One study showed how cystic forms of Bb were stored for 6 years before placing them back into a growing medium. Within 4 to 5 weeks, live spirochetes were detected.
Another study focused on autopsy findings in mice and monkeys. The findings here were that in order of location prevalence; Bb first occupies the muscle tissues and bladder, and then goes after the heart.
There was a very detailed study on the specific strains of Bb and what ABX worked the best for each strain.
Another finding was that the OSPA of Bb occupies mainly the cystic form and therefore cannot be detected readily through testing.
It looks to be a very informative gathering, and I look forward to hearing more about the specifics later.
My best, melanie
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
very interesting melanie
Thanks so much for keeping us updated
Blessings Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Oh, I forgot the best part...
A representative from John Hopkins gave a presentation about ALS. He explained on and on about how long it takes and how expensive it is to create new medications...
Sooo...his team decided to try and treat their ALS patients with existing medications that were already available.
Oddly enough, and very surprising to HIM... IV Rocephin seemed to be of the most benefit to his ALS patients.
BUT, he didn't think that this had anything to do with Lyme...he really didn't know much about Lyme except...
it was curable with 2 weeks of Doxycycline!
TC said that it was a good thing that her truck had been "valet parked"...
M
Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :
Thanks very much for these reports.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
Wow, great information. Thank you so much for sharing with us.
It is encouraging that a doctor who treats ALS and knows nothing about Lyme was there and had something very interesting to present that appears to show an infectious etiology for ALS.
Very interesting info about grapefruit seed extract. I take that all the time for yeast, especially while on abx. Maybe I'm killing ketes too!! Terry
Posted by ZIPMAN (Member # 8619) on :
Hi Melanie,Good to see you here!!
I am setting up a DSL and am barely on here ,on my old dialup.
Hope it works !!!
Rabbid Pup
Posted by Vermont_Lymie (Member # 9780) on :
Thank you so much for these updates and news from the conference! I hope we all hear more.
I am sorry to hear this report that cysts can "live" for at least 6 years.
Have been wondering how long they can stay viable for....Does this mean that we have to take abx for at least 6 years?
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Thanks Lyme Ed for your report
Sad to see they are using monkeys
I hope they don't have to suffer too much
But I'll be dam@d. Grapefuit seed extract. Very interesting as I just started using that and have had pressure headache herxing much like my herx's with flagel & tinnie.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
WOW! Thanks!! The bladder, huh? I KNEW that already!
grapefruit seed extract...now we have to be careful of drug interactions.... Posted by timaca (Member # 6911) on :
Thanks for the updates.
As far as cystic forms, and how long they can exist in the body....well I had latent lyme in my body for 10 years before a steroid shot activated it....
So, it seems to me that lyme can live dormant for 10+ years in the body. I was VERY healthy during that time.
Timaca
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Oh yeah, I agree with that. I had it go dormant on me for eons. [well, SORTA dormant]
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
In the above thread, I presented a novel abx regimen that would target all forms of Bbs.
quote: He (Dr. S. Brorson) suggests combination therapies designed to target all forms of Bb.
I couldn't agree more with him and would go further to suggest that combination therapies designed to target not only all forms of Bb, but also all the co-infections.
Dave
Posted by JeffM (Member # 8919) on :
How much grapefuit seed extract?
My LLMD won't know about this. I'd like someone who does know to talk about typical dosages, where you buy it, etc.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
David...combination therapy IS NOT NEW.
Jeff...any health food store has it
Posted by Cobweb (Member # 10053) on :
I happen to know MY LLMD and PA are at the conference, so I better start shopping for Grapeseed whatever.
I don't like the link between lyme and alzheimers-it's too close to home for me. Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
strong caveat on mixing either grapefruit seed extract, or gingko biloba with doxycycline, and to allow days,at the least to clear doxycycline,and its metabolites from the body, before taking grpe. frt. sd. extr. or gingko bil.
[ 22. October 2006, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: pq ]
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
Melanie, Tincup, and lyme Ed, thanks for your reports; looking forward to reading more updates.
I'd heard of grapefruit seed before..Bettyg Posted by Lymeblue (Member # 6897) on :
Please, please more reports about the conference.....I would love to know every detail....you can PM...
Posted by Sojourner (Member # 9424) on :
Thanks to Melanie and Lyme Ed,(oops and if I missed anyone else)
Your reporting on the conference is VERY much appreciated. Intersesting stuff!
Posted by Jill E. (Member # 9121) on :
Thanks Melanie for the information. I presume DVDs will be sold of the speeches? That would be great.
I agree with the caution about grapefruit seed extract - I've used it way back when for various things - yeast, mold, etc. but do we know for sure whether grapefruit seed extract works the same way as grapefruit and grapefruit juice?
I completely avoid any grapefruit or grapefruit juice when taking any medication - antibiotic or anything - because it suppresses the Cytochrome P450 detoxification pathway in the liver.
Even non abx medications such as cholesterol-lowering drugs have warnings about not mixing with grapefruit.
But I've always been sketchy about grapefruit seed extract, but always cautious and just presume it could do the same thing.
Jill
Posted by Katcon (Member # 9812) on :
Hi all,
I was at the conference. Alot of scientific info, some of it went over my head.
The grapefruit seed extract info was very interesting. However, we do not know at what dose, and this testing was done outside of the body.
Hopefully Human Being will find out that info. We wanted to ask Dr. Brorson after the conference but did not get a chance.
I was sitting very close to Dr. Dave Martz and his wife Dee. Wonderful people and very compassionate. This couple is dedicated to the lyme community.
My lyme body and brain is paying for it today. I'm exhausted.
Hop
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
quote: of all the drugs & substances he has tested for treating Bb cyst forms, the most potent so far is ... Grapefruit Seed Extract!
The data may be solid, cause Dr. Brorson SH has been working on this area for many years and made big contribution to the abx treatment of Lyme disease. See his recent paper abstracts below:
An in vitro study of the activity of telithromycin against mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia afzelii.
* Brorson O, * Brorson SH.
Department of Microbiology, Vestfold Sentralsykehus, Tonsberg, Norway.
In this study the new ketolide telithromycin was tested in vitro against motile and cystic forms of Borrelia afzelii, one of the species of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato. Acridine orange staining, dark field microscopy, and transmission electron microscopy were the techniques used to study the influence of telithromycin on the bacteria. The activity was unexpectedly high, 0.0003 microg/ml < MBC < or = 0.0006 microg/ml for the mobile forms after 7 days of incubation at 34 degrees C. MIC was < 0.00015 microg/ml. It is likely that the agent works bacteriostatically and kills in a time-dependent and concentration-independent way, by binding tightly to the ribosomes. The agent was not able to prevent cyst formation, and the cysts were not affect ed at an in vivo achievable concentration.Electron microscopy also supports the hypothesis of telithromycin being an effective agent against the mobile bacteria.
PMID: 16501899
An in vitro study of the susceptibility of mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to tinidazole.
* Brorson O, * Brorson SH.
Department of Microbiology, Vestfold Sentralsykehus, Tonsberg, Norway.
The susceptibility of mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to tinidazole -TZ- was examined. The minimal bactericidal concentration -MBC- of TZ against the mobile spirochetes was >128 microg/ml at 37 degrees C in micro-oxic atmosphere when incubated for 14 days. TZ significantly reduced the conversion of mobile spirochetes to cystic forms during incubation. The MBC for older -10-months-old- cysts at 37 degrees C in a micro-oxic atmosphere was >0.5 microg/ml, but >0.125 microg/ml for young -1-day-old- cysts. Acridine orange staining, dark-field microscopy and transmission electron microscopy revealed that, when the concentration of TZ was > or = MBC, the contents of the cysts were partly degraded, core structures did not develop inside the young cysts, and the amount of RNA in these cysts decreased significantly. When cysts were exposed to TZ, both the spirochetal structures and core structures inside the cysts dissolved, and the production of blebs was significantly reduced. These observations may be valuable in the treatment of resistant infections caused by B. burgdorferi, and suggest that a combination of TZ and a macrolide antibiotic could eradicate both cystic and mobile forms of B. burgdorferi.
PMID: 15248163
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Thanks to each of you for your additional information!
Yes, I was told that a DVD WILL be made available of the LDA meeting yesterday, and the ILADS meeting tomorrow. Why there will not be one for the meeting today...well, we have no clue, and hope that is false information.
I would also like to echo the warning about trying ANYTHING -Rx or otherwise- that has NOT been approved by your healthcare provider!
And...I also noticed an error on my part:
``There was a very detailed study on the specific strains of Bb and what ABX worked the best for each strain.''
Forgive me...obviously Bb is ONE strain of Borellia.
My best, Melanie
Posted by Andie333 (Member # 7370) on :
thanks, all, for reports from the conference.
Really good, fascinating information!
Andie
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I believe DVDs will be available of Friday's LDA event. There was no video of the presenters today. There will be tomorrow and I understand it will focus largely on treatment, testing, etc. and sounds like the DVD will be very useful.
As for the grapefruit seed extract, I personally would have little reservation about trying it. However, the comments were made in the context of an in-vitro experiment (outside the body) with no statement about whether or not the same effect might be seen internally. Though it may be worth a try, this should be taken in context of the experiment and not as a treatment recommendation.
To confirm for cave76, yes it was grapeFRUIT seed extract, not grape seed extract.
Today's sessions were much more applicable to the patient population in my opinion than much of the LDA event yesterday. However, I have not seen any breaking news that most/many of us here are not already aware of. Hopefully tomorrow....
Posted by Michelle M (Member # 7200) on :
Just superb stuff.
Amazing what great medical and research minds can do when they are interesting in helping us rather than harming us.
If only it were so in all circles.
I bow down to all attendees and LymeNet reporters!!
Michelle
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
SForsgren said:
quote: As for the grapefruit seed extract, I personally would have little reservation about trying it. However, the comments were made in the context of an in-vitro experiment (outside the body) with no statement about whether or not the same effect might be seen internally. Though it may be worth a try, this should be taken in context of the experiment and not as a treatment recommendation.
Yes, somebody got to try, otherwise, how do we know whether it is effective in vivo(in the body) for Lyme disease.
Remember, normally for an unknown bacterial infection, the bacteria would be recovered and cultured, then be tested against a panel of known antibiotics to find out which antibiotic will kill the bacteria in vitro． Ｔhis is called Antibiotic Susceptibility Test.
If an effective abx is found, the abx will be given to the patient.
This procedure is agreed through the medical community.
Definitely, the abx has been gone through a series of in vitro tests according to FDA regulations:
These tests would include mutagenesis, carcinogenesis, toxicity, effectiveness using bacteria, yeast, cell culture, mouse model, monkey model, then preclinical trial and phase-I to III of clinical trial.
These tests are used to evaluate the effectiveness and safety of the new drug.
Once the benefits outweigh the side effects of the drug, the FDA ｗｏｕｌｄ ａｐｐｒｏｖｅ ｔｈｅ ｕｓｅｏA 350; ｔｈｅ ｄｒｕｇ ｏｎ ｈｕｍａｎ bｏｄｙ ;．
OK, in response to Dave's question above -- I can give you a totally subjective, personal and unscientific answer.
I have been taking GSE (which was already in the house, rarely used but fairly new) since reading this thread last night. Just two capsules last night, and one this morning, another this evening.
Irrational exuberance, perhaps, since the data was based only on an in-vitro test. But I figured it couldn't hurt much, since I had taken it in the past to stem yeast infections without problems.
Feel like I am herxing fairly strongly today. I have not had that feeling in several weeks, and after two bouts of lyme and several rounds of ABX treatments, believe that I recognize the symptoms of a die-off reaction. Just my experience, but wanted to share.
Posted by LYMESCIENCE (Member # 9259) on :
I agree, the extract should be taken, but only by those of us who have extrodinairily broad knowledge bases concerning their disease, their medicines, and what to do in case of emergency.
If after these human tests are voluntarily done, only under a doctors supervision, then should the rest of the Lymnet community engage in using this as a drug.
I'm not against its use, but we must have reports in from TRUSTED members of the lymenet community. That includes adverse events, the age, sex, and location of those trying the medicine, and what other meds were taken with the extract.
We need trustable data, and data that is reproduceable, but knowing the Boroson's, I'd estimate the comment was made in the context of a plausable human consumed drug.
However, we must also take into account that they also produced a study confirming the anti cyst properties of Pepto Bismal. However, not that much Pepto Bismal is absorbed from the gastro tract..... this led to some quacks infusing Lymies with the stuff in Mexico, consequently, some people died.
Proceed with caution, not because the research is wrong, but because there are many variables involved in medicine, and only those with an extensive knowledge of the risks VOLUNTAIRILY taken, and under a doctors supervision, should start the "clinical" trials we so desperatly need.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Katcon...would you please edit out the dr's name? Thanks!
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
Vermont_Lymie, thanks for sharing your experience on GSE.
Grapefruit Seed Extract
Grapefruit seed extract (GSE) is a natural broad-spectrum antibiotic. It has also been shown effective against some viruses and Candida yeast. This extract has been studied for use against Staphylococcus (Staph), Streptococcus (Strep), Salmonella, Chlamydia trachomatis, Herpes simplex 1, Influenza A2, and the measles virus. It can also be used as a non-toxic hand sanitizer. A Brazilian study found it to be almost as effective for skin disinfection as commercially available surgical soap.
Note: Those sensitive to citrus can develop an allergy to grapefruit seed.
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
Pharmazie. 1999 Jun;54(6):452-6. Related Articles, Links
Aspects of the antimicrobial efficacy of grapefruit seed extract and its relation to preservative substances contained.
von Woedtke T, Schluter B, Pflegel P, Lindequist U, Julich WD.
Institute of Pharmacy, Ernst Moritz Arndt University, Greifswald, Germany.
The antimicrobial efficacy as well as the content of preservative agents of six commercially available grapefruit seed extracts were examined. Five of the six extracts showed a high growth inhibiting activity against the test germs Bacillus subtilis SBUG 14, Micrococcus flavus SBUG 16, Staphylococcus aureus SBUG 11, Serratia marcescens SBUG 9, Escherichia coli SBUG 17, Proteus mirabilis SBUG 47, and Candida maltosa SBUG 700. In all of the antimicrobial active grapefruit seed extracts, the preservative benzethonium chloride was detected by thin layer chromatography. Additionally, three extracts contained the preserving substances triclosan and methyl parabene. In only one of the grapefruit seed extracts tested no preservative agent was found. However, with this extract as well as with several self-made extracts from seed and juiceless pulp of grapefruits (Citrus paradisi) no antimicrobial activity could be detected (standard serial broth dilution assay, agar diffusion test). Thus, it is concluded that the potent as well as nearly universal antimicrobial activity being attributed to grapefruit seed extract is merely due to the synthetic preservative agents contained within. Natural products with antimicrobial activity do not appear to be present.
PMID: 10399191 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :
Well, that is a shocker. It is the preservative not the grapefruit seed extract?
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
Development and validation of an HPLC/UV/MS method for simultaneous determination of 18 preservatives in grapefruit seed extract
Ganzera M, Aberham A, Stuppner H Source: JOURNAL OF AGRICULTURAL AND FOOD CHEMISTRY 54 -11-: 3768-3772 MAY 31 2006
Abstract: Grapefruit seed extracts are used in cosmetics, food supplements, and pesticides because of their antimicrobial properties, but suspicions about the true nature of the active compounds arose when synthetic disinfectants such as benzethonium or benzalkonium chloride were found in commercial products. The HPLC method presented herein allows the quality assessment -qualitative and quantitative- of these products for the first time. On the basis of a standard mixture of 18 preservatives most relevant for food and grapefruit products, a method was developed allowing the baseline separation of all compounds within 40 min. Optimum results were obtained with a C-8 stationary phase and a solvent system comprising aqueous trifluoroacetic acid, acetonitrile, and 2-propanol. The assay was fully validated and shown to be sensitive -LOD <= 12.1 ng on-column-, accurate -recovery rates >= 96.1%-, repeatable -sigma-rel- <= 3.5%-, precise -intra-day variation <= 4.5%, interday variation <= 4.1%-, and rugged. Without any modifications the method could be adopted for LC-MS experiments, where the compounds of interest were directly assignable in positive ESI mode. The quantitative results of several products for ecofarming confirmed previous studies, as seven out of nine specimens were adulterated with preservatives in varying composition. The samples either contained benzethonium chloride -2.5-176.9 mg/mL- or benzalkonium chloride -138.2-236.3 mg/ mL-,together with smaller amounts of 4-hydroxybenzoic acid esters, benzoic acid, and salicylic acid.
Addresses: Ganzera M -reprint author-, Innsbruck Univ, Inst Pharm, Inrain 52, Innsbruck, A-6020 Austria Innsbruck Univ, Inst Pharm, Innsbruck, A-6020 Austria
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
Identification of benzalkonium chloride in commercial grapefruit seed extracts Takeoka GR, Dao LT, Wong RY, Harden LA Source: JOURNAL OF AGRICULTURAL AND FOOD CHEMISTRY 53 --19--: 7630-7636 SEP 21 2005
Abstract: Commercial grapefruit seed extracts --GSE-- were extracted with chloroform. The solvent was evaporated, and the resulting solid was subsequently analyzed by high-performance liquid chromatography --HPLC--, electrospray ionization mass spectrometry --ESI/MS--, tandem mass spectrometry --ESI/MS/MS--, and elemental analysis --by proton-induced X-ray emission analysis--. Three major constituents were observed by HPLC and were identified as benzyldimethyldodecylammonium chloride, benzyldimethyltetradecylammonium chloride, and benzyldimethylhexadecylammonium chloride. This mixture of homologues is commonly known as benzalkonium chloride, a widely used synthetic antimicrobial ingredient used in cleaning and disinfection agents.
Addresses: Takeoka GR --reprint author--, USDA, ARS, Western Reg Res Ctr, 800 Buchanan St, Albany, CA 94710 USA USDA, ARS, Western Reg Res Ctr, Albany, CA 94710 USA
Posted by micul (Member # 6314) on :
Question: Is it actually the preservative that has the antimicobial power, or is it merely that it is keeping intact the antimicrobial power of the GSE...that it is keeping it from oxidizing and loosing it's strength? I think that it is the latter.
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
There is alot of useful information coming back from the conference other than the GSE> I don't want to harp but share with you all my personal experinces .
For what its worth I take GSE but pusle it.
The only side effect I notice is dry eye.
I only take one at present in the am.(not a large dose)
I am on NO other meds at this point or herbs. Just my usual some supps & my rife. Yes. It could be a herx from my rife but never had this herx symptom non stop before from the rife.
Usually I herx for 3-4 days when I rife . Wait for the herx to clear then rife again. A definite pattern.
The GSE I have been having head pressure & headaches from it on & off everyday since I started the GSE. Is it a real herx or a side effect from this supplument? Its anyones guess.
****I think EVRYONE should talk to their LLMD before starting any herb or supp.*****
I do not have a LLMD thanks to the medical boards now & am self treating.
Take care
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
did you know it? Benzethonium chloride in extracts of grapefruit seeds
In 1997 the cantonal laboratories of Basle have detected high concentrations of benzethonium chloride in various extracts of grapefruit seeds and subsequently withdrawn the incriminated products from the market. These extracts are recommended as alternative medicines for a broad range of ailments, and there is an increasing demand for these extracts by the general public.
Benzethonium chloride is a disinfectant contained mainly in cleansing agents but also in locally active medications .
Cationic detergents are more toxic than other detergents. Toxicity of concentrated solutions is based upon their caustic action and upon their systemic toxic effects. Symptoms after dermal application of a concentrated solution are irritation, dermatitis, and bullous lesions. Contamination of the eye may lead from mild discomfort to corneal lesions depending on the concentration. Oral application of concentrated solutions leads to caustic burns of the oral and esophageal mucosa, nausea, emesis, abdominal pain, diarrhea, pulmonary edema, hypotension, metabolic acidosis, and depression of the central nervous system , seizures, and death. Ingestion of small amounts of a diluted solution <<0.1%> is not likely to cause acute effects.
Grapefruit seed extracts containing benzethonium chloride in concentrations of 7-11% represent a major health risk if larger amounts of a concentrated solution are ingested . Exposure of the skin or the eye may cause toxic symptoms. There are no symptoms to be expected if only a few drops diluted in water are ingested.
7-11-2005 hku
Posted by trails (Member # 1620) on :
up for more news and tired insomiacs just getting back!
Posted by TNhayley (Member # 8249) on :
Hoping for new news soon, but in the meantime, I was just researching drugs for clinicals and ran across this on wikipedia:
This page has a list of drugs that are known to be affected by grapefruit .
These interactions are generally caused by the fruit's naringin, bergamottin, and dihydroxybergamottin interfering with the enzyme cytochrome P450 isoform CYP3A4 in the intestine.
However, bioactive compounds in grapefuit juice may also interefer with p-glycoprotein and organic anion transporting polypeptides (OATPs) either increasing or decreasing bioavailability of a number of drugs.
The list is ordered by its most common chemical name, followed by alternate chemical names and various trade names.
This is an incomplete list and should not be used to verify whether a drug is safe
The following drugs definitely interact with CYP3A4:
That was wonderful information posted. Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.
Because I have read such broad ranges of scientific literature, I can infer another use for the extract based upon David's Post.
Let me read them once more, just to make sure I understand correctly, all of the science.
Then, I'll link together a completely different part of medical science for why this herb could serve a double purpose, and a much needed double purpose at that.
Thanks Dave, and others for taking what I had to say, and putting your words into science. It bennifits us all!
Gimme a day or so, to specify the peramaters of my search, so I can post some correlary information. Others, can take that information and find other connections.......my friends, this is evolution in action.
Lyme, shmime, that SOB of an infection is going down for the count, and here at Lymenet, we're gonna keep giving left and right hooks until the last bell sounds.
Posted by summerlove (Member # 10428) on :
this is from wikipedia.com Grapefruit can have a number of interactions with certain drugs, increasing the potency of many compounds. Grapefruit has components that inhibit the production of a particular enzyme in the liver. Thus, it is this effect that increases the rate of absorption of several drugs.
That being said.. I am 100% sure that GSE killed a nasty sinus infection I had. I wasn't on any other drugs. I was told it is antimicrobial, antifungal, and antiviral. I used the liquid GSE and puts drops of it into empty capsules. It tastes bad if you put it in water but is very concentrated in the drop-form. Don't get it on your skin w/out diluting it first, or it will get irritated. I also soak my toothbrush in a GSE solution and use it to clean, kill mold spores etc. It is very acidic
[ 23. October 2006, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: summerlove ]
Posted by summerlove (Member # 10428) on :
Using the Nutribiotic product for a while. No preservatives, long shelf life. Dried,ground dissolved in purified water, distilled etc. Got a bit nervous when I read this so I called them. Product has been around for 30yrs.
Posted by aiden424 (Member # 7633) on :
quote:Originally posted by summerlove: Here's more GSE info.
I have the GSE liguid too. Be careful with it and mix it carefully. For nasal spray it says to put one drop into an ounce of water. I accidentally put two drops in and it really burned.
I also have the throat spray which works good when I feel like I'm getting a cold.
Kathy
Posted by RobertAS (Member # 10444) on :
quote:Originally posted by JeffM: How much grapefuit seed extract?
My LLMD won't know about this. I'd like someone who does know to talk about typical dosages, where you buy it, etc.
I have been using the Nutribiotic GSE line both as a topical and internal "germ killer" for a couple of years. I train in Danzan Ryu Jujitsu (grappling), and have seen / contracted some bugs from the constant contact. We started cleaning the mats with diluted GSE and I found out it was available as a health supplement and have been using it both internally and on my skin ever since. I use the Nutribiotic line. I don't know about how it compares to others. I started using this first and haven't found a reason to change.
Simply put, the stuff works. Any skin irritation I have gets a few sprays and it goes away within days. I haven't had any staph or other weird bug since we started using it. I also use the Nutribiotic Defense plus cold preventative along with the nasal spray all winter. It works.
I`m a www shopper and have found www.allhealthtrends.com to be the quickest shipper. I haven't been able to find it cheaper anywhere else.
I was initially skeptical, but have seen it work on my own skin.
Best Regards
Posted by Virginia of Yore (Member # 3269) on :
Those wanting to try Grapefruit Seed Extract might want to be aware of this 1999 study which found it was the *preservatives* in GSE that seemed to be responsible for the antimicrobial effect. I've used it (a couple of different brands) along with my abx combos--it has been no cure for me. (Sorry if the spacing below is messed up --something's awry in my cut/paste computer dept.)
Pharmazie 1999 Jun;54(6):452-6 Aspects of the antimicrobial efficacy of grapefruit seed extract and its relation to preservative substances contained.
von Woedtke T, Schluter B, Pflegel P, Lindequist U, Julich WD.
Institute of Pharmacy, Ernst Moritz Arndt University, Greifswald, Germany.
The antimicrobial efficacy as well as the content of preservative agents of six commercially available grapefruit seed extracts were examined. Five of the six extracts showed a high growth inhibiting activity against the test germs Bacillus subtilis SBUG 14, Micrococcus flavus SBUG 16, Staphylococcus aureus SBUG 11, Serratia marcescens SBUG 9, Escherichia coli SBUG 17, Proteus mirabilis SBUG 47, and Candida maltosa SBUG 700. In all of the antimicrobial active grapefruit seed extracts, the preservative benzethonium chloride was detected by thin layer chromatography. Additionally, three extracts contained the preserving substances triclosan and methyl parabene. In only one of the grapefruit seed extracts tested no preservative agent was found. However, with this extract as well as with several self-made extracts from seed and juiceless pulp of grapefruits (Citrus paradisi) no antimicrobial activity could be detected (standard serial broth dilution assay, agar diffusion test). Thus, it is concluded that the potent as well as nearly universal antimicrobial activity being attributed to grapefruit seed extract is merely due to the synthetic preservative agents contained within. Natural products with antimicrobial activity do not appear to be present.
PMID: 10399191 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by Virginia of Yore (Member # 3269) on :
Sorry, guys! I hadn't noticed this was a two page posting thread, and posted the above article (already posted on page two of this thread) after reading the first page only...duh. Bedtime for Bonzo.
Posted by aiden424 (Member # 7633) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Virginia of Yore: [QB] Those wanting to try Grapefruit Seed Extract might want to be aware of this 1999 study which found it was the *preservatives* in GSE that seemed to be responsible for the antimicrobial effect. I've used it (a couple of different brands) along with my abx combos--it has been no cure for me.
The grapefruit seed extract that I have doesn't have any preservatives in it. It's the best thing I've ever used to clear up sinus problems.
Kathy
Posted by humanbeing (Member # 8572) on :
Sorry I haven't given my report but took me awhile to recover and to be honest...there is so much to tell but I don't have the best brainpower to put it together...
Scientists from Isis Pharmaceutical in CA are developing a revolutionary PCR testing method which will be able to identify an infectious microbe within 6 hours of inserting the sample...
Bb and coinfections are on the hit list.. but this technology is developed primarily for the super bugs like MRSA, and other bad hosp infections...
-----------------------
"Beta-Lactam Antibodies offer Neuroprotection by Increasing Glutamate Transporter Expression"
Neurologist from John Hopkins. His team focuses mostly on ALS-funded by the NIH. "Glutamate is the principal excitatory neurotranmitter in the nervous system." When synaptic glutamate is not functioning it results in acute and chronic neurological disorders including ALS, stroke , etc...
They used a blinded screen of 1040 approved drugs from all classes to see which if any could affect the expression of GLT1 and its functional activity...it was shocking to them that ceftriaxon or b-lactoms as a class came out on top...
"Ceftriaxone was neuro-protective in vitro when used in ischaemic injury or neruon degeneration...when used in an animal model of ALS, the drug delayed loss of neurons aned muscle strengh and increased mouse survival.
"Thus these studies provide a class of potential neurotherapeutics that act to modulate the expression of glutamate neurotransmitter transporters via gene activation."
(We all guessed this would happen)
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"Laboratory Diagnosis of Lyme Disease in Europe" This Austrian dermatologists discussed how LB is more difficult to diagnosi in Surope because of the heterogenetiy of borrelia sp. comprising seven Osp A serotypes. B. afzelii is the most often detected followed by B. gerinii and Bb sensu stricto.
The German society of microbiology has published guidelines...they also use methods of blood, tissue and other fluid PCR but mostly the EM...
They also use a two tiered system and as far as getting treatment if you don't have a positive test...forget it.
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"Babesia microti Causes Down Regulation of Cytokines and Increased Severity of Lyme Arthritis"
From Kansas, Dept of Dianostic Med/Pathobiology, Vet Medicine...this professor studies mice comparing severity of illness in just Bb or Babesia and Bb...
Significant increases in severity of carditis and arthritis were found in coinfected mice. Also, cytokine levels were measured in lymph nodes and spleen for interferon gamma and tumor necrosis factor ans well as Interleukin 4 and 10...
Also, sig increase of the tumor necrosis factor and reduction in the expression of interleukin 4 seen in coinfected mice. ------------------------------------------- Taking a break be back soon...
Posted by humanbeing (Member # 8572) on :
Continued from LDA Conference:
"Tissue Response to Chronic Borrelia Infectin"
This Prof. of Neurology did money and mice studies. Basically he found that monkeys are less susceptible to persisitent infection than mice.
"The most important response of mammalian hosts to infection is the production of specific antibody that in the majority of cases clears the infection. The failure of ths antibody response leads to persistant infection, which can lead to tissue injury most notably in the heart."
Other tid bits from him...he works with the NIH...majority of his patient practise if with MS. When asked if he saw LD among his MS pts he said "I am much more likely to see LD that is really MS" (I am not kiddin ya)
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"Medical Hypothesis: Links Between Bb and Dementia"
This awsome pathologist from NY. He was the first investigator in the world to invoke the concept of the "cyst" form for Borrelia based on model pf Treponemal kete cyst form. He was the first investigator to publish images of Bb ketes without corkscrw...
His slides of plaques of alzheimers disease look exactly like plaques seen in syphillis and LD.
His paper "Plaques of Alzheimer's disease originate from cysts of Bb, the Lyme disease spirochete" was published in "medical Hypotheses Vol 67 issue 3 pg592.
---------------------------------
Be back later...time for dinner Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Thanks Humanbeing
Great job & awesome photos! Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :
The part about monkeys being less susceptible to persistent infection than mice.....
I wonder how they infected those monkeys? It has been noticed that needle infected animals are less likely to get the full force of an infection. This is because tick saliva contains compounds that catalyze the infection process. So, if the monkeys were needle infected from a culture of spirochetes which presumably did not include the saliva, then this could be an explanation for what the researcher observed. Seems it would be premature to say monkeys are less susceptible, especially if they were needle infected.
Posted by humanbeing (Member # 8572) on :
"Cystic Forms and Antimicrobial Therapy" This Microbiologist from Norway had great slides of all the forms of Bb including up to 5 structurally differnet bacteria.
"Blebs arranged as strings of pearls melted together to form thin filamentous structures. Within some cysts, spirochestes appeared to multiply. Core structures within some cysts appeared to produce blebs."
"Cyst formation has also been demonstrated in the presence of antibiotcs, complement, lysozyme, H202 and when exposed to antibiotics, cysts can be induced both in vitro and in vivo. Using silver impregnation and immunochemical staining, cystic material has been demonstrated in every animal and human tissue infected by Bb."
He found that cystic forms were sensitive invitro to metronidazole and tinidazole...also hydroxychloroquine and bismuth in an invivo achievable concentration.
"We are now treating patients with chronic lyme disease with a combination of metronidazole, tinidazole, or hydroxychloroquine in combination with a macrolid or doxycylin. Results are promising."
--------------------------------
"Looking Beyond Lyme: Differential Diagnosis"
This talk was from a prominent chief of ID in NY. He was very good natured about the "camps" and whatnot. Treats a lot of lyme but also works patients up for a million other things...here is a list of what I could write fast enough:
------------------------------------------
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Thanks Human! Posted by JRWagner (Member # 3229) on :
Well now...what a delightfully refreshing post. I feel as if I walked into the Valley Of Knowledge...
Seriously...Melanie...thank you for this info, and thanks to all the rest of YOUZE GUYZ and GOILS for da stuff yuze put in hea.
VERY INTERESTING!!!
Note: Grapefruit Seed Extract does not necessarily have the same properties as Grapefruit Juice, etc.
From the rebuttal studies Dave noted, it looks like the Seed has not flowered into a promised treatment.
However...we do not know the purity of the GSE that was used in the research, ie., did the sample contain the preservatives or not?
HUH??? DID IT??? WELL...I am not hearing any answers out there!
Could someone contact the Dr. responsible? I do not know who he or she is, or I sure as H... would.
This was truly a great post...the type we should have here alla da tyme....
Tanks!
Peace, Love and Wellness, JRW
Posted by JRWagner (Member # 3229) on :
Up...this is an important post!
Posted by nellypointis (Member # 1719) on :
Has anybody tried to crush grapefruit seeds themselvesand put the mush directly onto a plate with bacteria growing in it?
In that way you have the strength of the fresh GSE but not the possible presertvatives that are supposed to preserve the potency of the GSE, but that may also be the only active antibacterial agents in the industial made GSE.
Crushing Grapefruit seeds is not a task requiring great skill.
Maybe the Brorson could do this for us all. They've got the slides with the bugs, the know how, I'll offer to go to Norway to crush the seeds myself if need be (never been to Norway, might like it, if carrying my bag of grapefruits around doesn't get to me after a while:))
Nelly
Note: Grapefruit Seed Extract does not necessarily have the same properties as Grapefruit Juice, etc.
From the rebuttal studies Dave noted, it looks like the Seed has not flowered into a promised treatment.
However...we do not know the purity of the GSE that was used in the research, ie., did the sample contain the preservatives or not?
HUH??? DID IT??? WELL...I am not hearing any answers out there!
Could someone contact the Dr. responsible? I do not know who he or she is, or I sure as H... would.
This was truly a great post...the type we should have here alla da tyme....
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