posted
Okay, I'm plodding along with 500 mg. zithromax. Trying to manage gut stuff before I start Plaquenil.
Out of the blue the neuro symptoms flare. I can't think. I get confused while I'm trying to do stuff. I'm also light-headed and depressed. Listening to others talk is overwhelming. Came on fast.
So am I worse? doomed for dementia? herxing along? Does this pass?
It's very scarey,
wiserforit
Posts: 508 | From Banks of the Hudson | Registered: Jul 2006
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Wiser --
How long have you been taking the Zithro for?
Not thinking straight/general mental confusion is always a major part of herx symptoms for me...
And usually tapers off over the next 3-7 days...
Hang in there and consider calling your doctor tomorrow if no relief.
Hope you feel better!
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
First: get youself some probiotics lots every day. second: get stomach helper, protonix, prilosec, nexium, take every day third: should try to take plaquenil when 1&2 are in place, sooner than later.
rty to eat something prior to taking meds.
they call me dizzy dave if that helps.
this is propably not a herx but don't have enough history to tell you.
neuro problems are usually from babs, but bb can cross the blood brain barrier also.
more history and information would be helpful.
depression can be overwelming and destroy treatment,. a strong mind yeilds a strong\ body. the body can't heal itself if the mind thinks its doomed. antidepressant are probably in order, and from your demeaner, probably some antianxiety pills also.
sound more like a toxicity issue from the zithro.
i was feeling real good until i got iv tx. then my brain went dead, no memory,dizzy, bad eyes, ringing ears the works.
once the toxins clear you should feel a little better.
i use newspaper puzzles in the morning to monitor my neuro ststus for the day. if i can do the puzzle then my day is usually ok, if not then i monitor what my body is telling me.
if it needs to sleep i sleep. i always try to leave the house and shop or sit someplace pleasant rather than sitting in bed thinking i'm going to die(not true).
mediation or yoga is also very good during treatment. relax the mind.
exercise is the most important thing for a cure. without exercise, even minimal, the cure will take much longer. why? because exercise stimulates the endophins and epinephrine in the brain. this causes a cascade reaction for the body to feel better and better able to cure without meds.
the body and mind must be fit to get better.
search my post on exercise regime if interested.
docdave130
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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thanks for the replies. HX: I was on IV Rocephin for 3 1/2 months. One month off after unbearably bad and sudden herx reactions at the end. Onto 250 mg zith for 5 weeks, increased to 500 for the past three weeks.
I have difficulty herxing on probiotics. So, I'm downing plain yogurt twice a day. I've been taking prilosec ever since the Rocephin days... that makes about six months. Trying to watch diet; not perfect.
I have Bb and Babs and possibly Bart. LLMD is working with me slowly since I have hx of difficulty with most meds. Guess I'm over-wired!
I know my future holds Rifampin and possibly more IV Rocephin. LLMD has been holding off from Mepron... don't know exactly why, other than easing into everything else.
Sweat like crazy on the first month of zithro. That's stopped. Now the woozy neuro uncertainty is here.
I'm getting less patient,
wiserforit
Posts: 508 | From Banks of the Hudson | Registered: Jul 2006
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Hi Wiser.
NOT doomed for dementia.
TEMPORARY condition.
Familiar to most of us!
Which toothbrush is mine? Would you pass the white thing with holes in the top? Where are we? You see clearly the starting point and destination point in your mind but cannot for the life of you figure out how to connect the two. Sentences garble and jangle. Noise hurts. 20 beats behind in every conversation, too hard to even try. Hold a thought long enough to find paper? Ha, gone, never to return.
Yup.
It will pass. Please don't worry -- if possible, try to laugh about it. I used to try and hide it! But everyone saw through it.
Because by the time you add Mepron to that (and your doc might be waiting for the right time!), it's likely to be like multiplying it a coupla times.
Try and trust that it is NOT you, NOT permanent, and take comfort knowing you'll come out the other end still speaking English.. and hopefully feeling much better!
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
yup I tell my friends I'm tripping on abx
Posts: 169 | From former Philadelphian | Registered: Jun 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
1. Probiotics...lots
2. Ginkgo will help and/or CoQ10 if the brain fog cause is glutamate (too much).
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: 1. Probiotics...lots
2. Ginkgo will help and/or CoQ10 if the brain fog cause is glutamate (too much).
Marnie's right as rain -- but be sure & tell your doc about all supps, including herbs!! -- since CoQ10 is a no-no when you're on the Mepron wagon..
Best,
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
When will this end? ONE, I repeat, only ONE study said no CoQ10 with Mepron because the pathogen mutated.
Maybe the Mepron caused the mutation!
WE MAKE CoQ10. I repeat...our own bodies MAKE CoQ10.
If you shouldn't take CoQ10 with Mepron then perhaps we need to figure out a way to stop our own system from making this critical enzyme when we are on Mepron.
NOT!
CoQ10, also known as ubiquinone, is a naturally-occurring substance found in every cell of our bodies.
Our bodies make CoQ10, but production declines as we age since the liver loses its ability to synthesize CoQ10.
Certain Amino Acids, Vitamins, Minerals and Trace Elements are needed for the production of CoQ10. If any one is missing, it will inhibit the production of CoQ10. Natural sources include fatty fish, organ meats, and peanuts.
The following is very recent medical news from around the world:
Curr Opin Rheumatol. 2006 Nov;18(6):636-41
RECENT FINDINGS: The most recently described mitochondrial myopathies are due to defects in nuclear DNA,
including coenzyme Q10 deficiency
and mutations in genes controlling mitochondrial DNA abundance and structure, such as POLG, TK2, and MPV17. PMID: 17053512
Kardiologiia. 2006;46(8):11-3.
Normalization of plasma nitric oxide concentrations was achieved only with combination of coenzyme Q10 and simvastatin.
This fact may be explained by positive action of statins on endothelial function. PMID: 17047594
Steroids. 2006 Oct 10; Epub ahead of print
BACKGROUND: There is a growing awareness that oxidative stress may play a role in periodontal disease.
CONCLUSION: This investigation suggests that the catabolic effects of nicotine
could be reversed by the addition of antioxidants such as CoQ or Pycnogenol((R)) and phytoestrogens. PMID: 17045317
Neurology. 2006 Oct 10;67(7 Suppl 2):S30-8.
Drugs that are now under clinical scrutiny as neuroprotectant include molecules that combine one or more of the following properties: (1) monoamine oxidase inhibition (rasagiline, safinamide); (2) mitochondrial enhancement
(coenzyme Q10,
creatine); (3) antiapoptotic activity; (4) anti-inflammatory activity; (5) protein aggregation inhibition; (6) neurotrophic activity. In advanced Parkinson's disease, the combination of disease progression and l-dopa therapy leads to the development of motor response complications, particularly wearing off, on off, dyskinesias and dystonias. PMID: 17030738
J Card Fail. 2006 Aug;12(6):464-72
CONCLUSION: CoQ10 enhances systolic function in chronic heart failure, but its
effectiveness may be reduced with concomitant use of current standard therapies. PMID: 16911914
Am J Epidemiol. 2006 Aug 11; Epub ahead of print
These findings may indicate a role of lipids in the pathogenesis of Parkinson's disease.
Alternatively, they could reflect the strong correlation--especially in women--between levels of serum cholesterol and the antioxidant coenzyme Q10.
If confirmed, this would provide further support for an important role of oxidative stress in the pathogenesis of Parkinson's disease. PMID: 16905642
Biofactors. 2005;25(1-4):235-40
Coenzyme Q10 supplementation reduces corticosteroids dosage in patients with bronchial asthma.
Data show that patients with corticosteroid-dependent bronchial asthma have low plasma CoQ(10) concentrations that may contribute to their antioxidant imbalance and oxidative stress.
A reduction in the dosage of corticosteroids required by the patients following antioxidant supplementation was observed, indicating lower incidence of potential adverse effects of the drugs, decreased oxidative stress. This study also demonstrates the significant uptake of CoQ(10) by lung tissue in a rat model using hydrosoluble CoQ(10) (Q-Gel). PMID: 16873952
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: When will this end? ONE, I repeat, only ONE study said no CoQ10 with Mepron because the pathogen mutated.
"When will this end?" -- I guess I didn't even know it had begun.
I will break down right here and publicly admit that I recklessly, wantonly took my LLMD's advice without first having done a PubMed search of 84,204 possible word string combinations of CoQ10 AND mepron OR antimalarial WITHIN 10 words of such and such, etc. etc.
Have mercy on us lesser mortals.
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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RoadRunner
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-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Hey Um, what was your name??????????????????
TEMPORARY!!!!! WITH appropriate treatment!!!
I had really bad encephalopathy heading toward dementia. Couldn't remember my babys name and she was my world.
Couldn't drive anymore because people would HONK at me JUST because I was stopping at green lights and going through red ones (I got this idea they were switched, red means go green means stop). NASTY people!!!
Couldn't cook anymore because of those darn fires because I would forget I was cooking and go off somewhere else in the house and BEEP BEEP the fire alarm would go off!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And as far as driving anywhere, for months I'd been losing my car, wandering up and down aisles of cars limping and staggering with arthritis- is THAT my car? Is THAT my car? When I DID find it I would have to look inside through the window at personal articles to make sure, yes, it WAS really MY car, because I would forget what kind of car I had.
Forgot friends names all the time. Would stop talking to them and just STARE at them, "WHO THE HECK IS THIS PERSON?" Did same with husband (no wonder he gave up on me).
The thing that drove me crazy was I had a little one who would ask me for something from the kitchen and I would go into the kitchen and TA DA, I would forget why I was there~~! So I would either figure out something wrong- confabulation- "I am on my way to do laundry!!"
BEEP BEEP WRONG!!!
"Juice Mama? Juice?"
DARN.
Back to kitchen, repeating in head
JUICEJUICEJUICE
but I would forget. Be in kitchen again going, "Milk? Juice? Crackers?"
Strong feeling comes- MILK!!! YES MILK!!! Bring her MILK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Juice Mama?"
AGH!!!!!!!!!
Over and over and over, and we are not talking just walking back and forth, we are talking slowly, so slowly lurching from piece of furniture to the wall, leaning heavily on counter, in agony swaying, barely able to stay awake because I was seized by this somnolent fatigue-
and sometimes I would go back and forth six or seven times- and that would be my big exertion for day- I would be worn out- that was a huge day actually at that point-
The worst thing was that I could only hold something in my mind for a few seconds. So I would HAVE JUICE in my head and then it would slip away by the time I made it to the fridge. I COULD NOT keep it in my head that long no matter how much I tried. I ended up bringing the kiddo WITH me to kitchen at that point and she would tell me, because I could NOt keep it in my head that long.
After Iv Rocephin I was able to go back to work full time as a drug & alco counselor with the severely mentally ill and was able to remember every clients name and history easily, as I have always had a great memory excepting when I was sick.
So, yeah, temporary. THANK GOODNESS*)!*)!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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