I'm real limited on time right now to get this post in, so I'll ask you all to read my last reply on the weird dream post I did yesterday, and to read in Betty's CRP post where I replied there.
I know this is a big imposition folks, but if I don't get this out somehow right now before I get all caught up in the day, I'll forget. . .
I have these two really strong antibiotics up on my shelf leftover from last time's go around with massive infection du jour.
They have just recently expired, but since I'm being SO symptomatic right now, I'm very tempted to use them and see what happens.
I know when they initially put me on them last year when the colon flared up (cipro and flagyl), I was in the hospital and they were given IV. On day 3 in the hospital, I had what I now know is a major herx.
I actually got so much sicker than I was when I went in through the ER with a perforrated bowel - my white cells went from what was a scarier level to an even scarier one (23,000). That lasted through day 4 and then I turned the corner leaving the hospital on day 9.
Not sure this is a good idea, but then maybe the herx would get my doctor's attention again like the perforrated colon did. . .
Am I nuts to think this desparately?
Thanks and God bless, Barb
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Hey Moosie Loosey..
I am also having "time" problems too.. so I have not stopped to look up your other posts. Sorry!
But.. by simply seeing this post.. I have a few things to say.
NO!
Don't take any medications.. especially old ones.. especially if you ended up in the hospital... especially if they made you feel worse for whatever reason in the past.. and especially just to cause you to possibly herx and hope a doctor will notice it.
You need a LLMD or good doctor.. and supervision before taking antibiotics or any prescription drugs.. ALWAYS!
And if your doctor can't "see" there is a problem now.. he still won't see a "herx". Trust me.. they aren't that smart... and you could get in trouble (ill) doing it that way.
My best advise... Get a new doctor.
OK?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tincup: And if your doctor can't "see" there is a problem now.. he still won't see a "herx". Trust me.. they aren't that smart... and you could get in trouble (ill) doing it that way.
My best advise... Get a new doctor.
Yep!! Most drs don't even believe in herxes. If you got worse they'd blame it on something else.
Find an LLMD ASAP!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Moosie...I just read your post to Betty. Have you tried a gluten-free diet for your colon problems?
Posted by Areneli (Member # 6740) on :
Expired abx mostly are getting a little weaker in comparison to fresh stuff. With exception of tetracyklines that become toxic once expired.
Posted by Aniek (Member # 5374) on :
I'm giving you another reason for no. If you take too short a dose of antibiotics, you can do yourself more harm than good. You can cause bacteria to become resistant, and then you can't use that abx again to treat the Lyme.
Posted by charlie (Member # 25) on :
If you asked me for a list of abx I wouldn't take on my own, the two you mentioned would be at the top of the list.
Posted by liz28 (Member # 4946) on :
You aren't nuts for feeling desperate, but it sounds like you aren't thinking clearly about your options. Cipro does not do much for Lyme, and flagyl is only used on Lyme cysts.
It is not clear what your situation is, in terms of finances and medical treatment. But even if the two antibiotics you described were still viable, they would not help with a Lyme relapse. If they are not viable anymore, and have not been kept in a refrigerator, throw them out.
For now, see if you can get an ongoing doxycycline prescription for acne. That will at least get you some mild relief, until you can get to a better doctor. It's an inexpensive drug, and will not annoy your insurance company. Don't waste your time on ER visits and arguments with doctors, since you need to conserve your time and energy.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Areneli....what about minocycline? Can you use it after it's expired?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
So mino is in that class??
Posted by Areneli (Member # 6740) on :
I don't know for sure about Mino. But it is also possible as Mino belongs to a class of tetracyklines.
Posted by charlie (Member # 25) on :
TuTu...as far as I know anything that ends with 'cycline' is in the same family. I wouldn't think a few weeks would matter but I wouldn't take anything that was out of date for months or years.
Not only does flagyl often cause depression but it can mess your liver up.
And cipro has been reported to cause psychosis as well as tendonitis. It can also make you so sleepy you'll pass out while driving. They won't even let us bring it in from Mexico anymore(not that i want to)
I take amoxicillin and or biaxin and or bactrim(maybe dangerous too to some) whenever I have a flare up, I never found doxy to do much of anything.
But cipro and flagyl together....YIKES
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Thanks cave and areneli. Mino is the only abx I have sitting around here. Was keeping it for "emergencies."
I think the only expiration date is the one the drugstore puts on it. That's always one year from the filled date. Guess it's gotta go!
Posted by RoadRunner (Member # 380) on :
Int Microbiol 2002 Mar;5(1):25-31
An in vitro study of the susceptibility of mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to hydroxychloroquine. Brorson O, Brorson SH. Department of Microbiology, Vestfold Sentralsykehus, Tonsberg, Norway. In this work the susceptibility of mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) was studied. The minimal bactericidal concentration (MBC) of HCQ against the mobile spirochetes was > 32 microg/ml at 37 degrees C, and > 128 microg/ml at 30 degrees C. Incubation with HCQ significantly reduced the conversion of mobile spirochetes to cystic forms. When incubated at 37 degrees C, the MBC for young biologically active cysts (1-day old) was > 8 microg/ml, but it was > 32 microg/ml for old cysts (1-week old). Acridine orange staining, dark-field microscopy and transmission electron microscopy revealed that the contents of the cysts were partly degraded when the concentration of HCQ was > or = MBC. At high concentrations of HCQ (256 microg/ml) about 95% of the cysts were ruptured. When the concentration of HCQ was > or = MBC, core structures did not develop inside the cysts, and the amount of RNA in these cysts decreased significantly. Spirochetal structures inside the cysts dissolved in the presence of high concentrations of HCQ. When the concentration of HCQ was > or = MBC, the core structures inside the cysts were eliminated. These observations may be valuable in the treatment of resistant infections caused by B. burgdorferi, and suggest that a ******combination of HCQ and a macrolide antibiotic could eradicate both cystic and mobile forms of B. burgdorferi.****** PMID: 12102233 [PubMed
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