I read Stephen Buhner's book "Healing Lyme". I was wondering if anyone has tried his protocol and what results you had.
Also where are the best places to purchase the herbs if I was to try it.
I did a search and found a lot of threads but not a lot of recent info. Thanks
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
i'm also interested in this. finally bought the book and wonder where to start
Posted by ashleygait (Member # 10398) on :
Hi guys--I started all of his supporting herbs (not the core protocol) about two weeks before starting IV rocephin. They made me feel 50% better. Then I felt awful again and I did the abx treatment.
I've just started the core protocol today though and i'm done with abx, for a long time I hope. I've heard of lots of people who do really well on this protocol and i look forward to being one of the many who advocate it for healing lyme...
Good lcuk to both of you!!
Ashley Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Here is Stephen Buhner's website - for questions you might have, etc.
I just found this important info: 1/14/2006 -- Are the capsules containig cat�s claw vegan?
Response From Raintree Nutrition: No, we use standard gelatine capsules. Many of the veggie caps don't break down in the stomach but pass into the bowel to digest. Cat's claw is a good example of why we don't use veggie caps. This plant needs sufficient stomach acid to break down the active alkaloid chemicals that are bound to tannins. If the veggie cap doesn't dissolve in the stomach, then you can't absorb the active alkaloid chemicals and the benefits and effectiveness is reduced. If you still don't want regular gelatin capsules, we sell cat's claw in a bulk powder for $18 instead. It is the same powder we put into capsules.
Another buddy of mine who was extremely sick for the same amount of time as myself also had tremendous recovery with antibiotics (can't remember which ones , different from mine) and Buhner herbs.
I'm guessing that I was spending about $100 a month on the herbs but I dont have the info in front of me because the dosages varied as time went on and I took more at a time. I was getting mine at myvitanet.com
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
Very good results. I've been about a year in his herbs. Now I'm only on andrographis, practically symptomless (just got some lung pressure sometimes).
I finally started gaining weight, first time since I fell sick in June 05. I didn't do it solo, I followed Dr. K.'s treatment too, but great part of my improvement came from herbs like andro, cats claw (whole), sarsaparilla and even astragalus.
Andrographis is my magic herb. I never stopped taking it since about January/ February, in low doses. It works!
Buhner's yahoo site is a good place to ask questions.
Selma
Posted by Life inLymbo (Member # 8388) on :
Thanks It's good to hear success stories, hopefully after I start the protocol I'll be able to add my own Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
This is good info for those with questions on Buhner's protocol.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
I'd been on Buhner, oral antibiotics, Welchol, and chlorella/bentonite for endotoxin absorption, but stopped the herbs for the last couple of months of antibiotics, and stopped the antibiotics in late November. At that point I felt 100% normal.
I was off of all of it for a month while waiting to see the LLMD and get CD-57 blood tests (and waiting to 'see what happens')- and after a month my exhaustion/pain symptoms came back quite strongly (not brainfog, though!). I was back to needing 12+ hours of sleep a day and other exhaustion problems.
SO I went back to just the Buhner core protocol and a lot of eleuthero (and a LOT of chlorella and anti-yeast stuff)- and I was amazed that my energy all came back within a few days.
I'm going to wait another month or so before updating my 'personal story' thread that I linked above.
I still have pain that I didn't have while on antibiotics, but the side effects of the antibiotic (azithromycin) were worse than the mild pain I"m in, and I'm sure I can do something about the pain whereas I couldn't control the antibiotic side effects.
I was absolutely amazed at how quickly the herbs brought the tiredness under control when I started up again. I do have some experience, from my unsuccessful early-disseminated Lyme treatment, with knowing how fast I respond to antibiotics when I'm taken off them and then put back on after symptoms resume. THis was faster (though maybe it's because I took antibiotics for a longer period of time).
The LLMD suggests taking the herbs a few months and then going off again to see what's happening, and are also looking at other factors (including toxic metals) to see why I got so sick in the first place.
Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
Thank you Maria, It is encouraging to see that there are other tools that we can try in this fight .
I am going to try Bihner's protocol at some point , and possibly rife and salt/C .
I am grateful that I do not have to solely rely on ABX as they tear my guts up .
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
Maria, congrats for your improvement.
I would just like to tell you not to stop his herbs if you feel they are still helping you. Everytime I stopped his herbs I got many symptoms back.
It's only recently (few weeks ago) that I dropped sarsaparilla and cat's claw, for example. I'm only on andro, but added teasel to deal with borrelia in my brain. But I'm now practically symptomless of lyme. Still in October, I couldnt stop his core protocol!
I stayed on his protocol for about 11 months!!! No long interruption of andrographis, sarsaparilla or cats claw. I can count on my fingers the days I stayed without these herbs druing these 11 months. The only herb I stopped was knotweed, because I felt I had allergy to it (it burned my mouth).
I owe A LOT to his core protocol. If you feel well after taking them, trust your gut.
I did loads of metal detox together with his herbs. I'm still on metal detox! I'm entering the second year of andrographis now (my 13th month!).
This is just my own opinion based on my experience.
Be well! Selma
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Antibiotics and herbs are by no means mutually exclusive. Buhner makes the point that some of these herbs are more effective with drugs than either herbs or drugs alone. I felt like I got a LOT better when I added the herbs to my antibiotic regimen initially.
Additionally, my LLMD and his colleagues at his medical office all believe that for maximum effectiveness of either treatment, it's important to figure out if anything else is wrong with the patient's immune system at the same time.
[ 04. January 2007, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: MariaA ]
Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
Maria and Selma, THANK YOU for sharing ! Your experience seems to be similar to JimBOb's. I am going to try the protocol too.
I can only stand the ABX so long til my digestive tract suffers .
PLEASE keep updating us periodically , sharing your progress. Many of us here desperately need to see others making strides toward a better life . Blessings to You, jen
Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
Maria and Selma,
How long were you on Buhner's protocol before you began to see you were feeling a little better ?
Also, do either of you use a rife machine?
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Jennifer,
I felt a speeding up of the improvements I was gaining from the antibiotics after I added Buhner core protocol herbs, and I think it took about 10 days before I felt these improvements. I kept taking the core protocol along with the antibiotics for two months and quit the herbs only because I was trying to figure out what some side effects were (which turned out to be antibiotics related)
recently, I felt ill a month after stopping the antibiotics (i'd stopped the herbs months before too).
I re-started the Buhner core protocol along with eleuthero, teasel, along with fresh garlic, diflucan, and oregano oil for yeast- and felt vast improvement within about 3 days of re-starting the herbs- no antibiotics this time.
Again that's AFTER wacking the disease with 6 months of antibiotics and 2 months of herbs. I wouldn't expect someone to feel such fast improvement if they hadn't already beaten it to remission like I had.
I'm not using Rife or any other therapy besides the ones I mentioned.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Gigi,
could you shorten the link to Buhner's website- it's what's making this page hard to read because the software stretches everything to match the long link. snipurl.com or tinyurl.com is one way to shorten links if you want to preserve the whole thing in a post and have the energy for the extra steps...
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Selma: WHY did you stop Sarsaparilla? IF I was going to save only ONE herb, THAT is the one I would NOT quit taking, IF and WHEN this is all over. There are far too many benefits that it gives us to quit it. I would quit Andrographis BEFORE I would quit Sarsaparilla.
May I suggest Stepahnia Root and Periwinkle tincture if you are having neural problems. Also, Devils Claw has been the "miracle" herb for me. I felt SOOOOOOOOO much better in a few days once I started it over 13 months ago. It and Sarsaparilla are the only two I am STILL taking at the maximum dosage that I used when I was taking my most herbs.
NO, I would NOT mix Stephania Root in water. Encapsulate it.
Most of us who have been doing herbs for quite awhile now, are buying our herbs from 1st Chinese Herbs out in Washington state.
I felt improvements in about 3 days, right in the beginning of using herbs over a year ago. It was like a miracle. I felt like I was going to die before that. When I started taking abx, I felt a lot worse. I went off the abx last February after about two months on them along with the herbs. The abx were killing my stomach. Herbs do not do that.
JWF has reported on this group that he and his wife have been on herbs for a little over 2 years and both were doing fine the last I heard. Maybe he can report in again.
Jim Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
Bump for Inquirers
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
I missed this thread sometime in January! Sorry.
How long to feel improvement? Quite fast, I would say, since I felt herxes, since the beginning. But I needed lots more of detox than core protocol. Adding chlorella and metal detox helped tons.
I had many ups and downs though, and only really stabilized after doing ART (ART measured the herbs for me). I also added the KMT machine.
Jim, I can continue with sarsaparilla, yes. It's because I only have it in tincture now (my pound of raintree came to an end). And the tincture does not work as well, I feel.
I'm always ART tested, so don't worry, the combination of herbs I use usually works well for me. I'm not too nuts about bacterial growth anymore, I feel some sort of stability there.
You're right that this is a herb to continue. But I don't have many lyme symptoms anymore. I quit andro too, 5 days ago. I've been 13 months on it!!! I'm on PC-Samento 4-8 drops a day. That's all.
I wonder if you never reacted so strong with andro because you didn't take the 10% andrographolide version... The andro tincture (that has low andrographolide) never reached the feet of a single capsule of standardized andro.
I'm dealing now with toxicity and bartonella, these are my main problems. The boneset hits me so strong usually, I can't take any more killers for the moment (than the few drops of samento...).
I don't have experience with this product, I just follow ART, as I told you. It's the second time I drop all CP herbs (except for these drops of Samento)... First time, it took hours to get a relapse. Last time I could stay 5 days without relapsing, this was a few months ago... Let's see how it goes this time.
It's true I have some head symptoms when I take boneset, don't know what they are, I feel drunk. I'll wait to try stephania, as it's also a killer... I'm on low killing mode for the moment.
Thanks for the tip of stephania (encapsulate). Selma
Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
Revisited For Those Asking About the Effectiveness of Buhner's Protocol
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
The point I was making was: I don't know IF I will ever get over Lyme completely since I have had it so long, but even IF I do, I do NOT plan to ever quit Sarsaparilla, IN CAPSULES.
It is not ONLY good for Lyme. It is good as a BLOOD CLEANSER, arthritis, skin Disorders, Syphllis, cancer, fever, digestive disorders, asthma, type 2 diabetes. Also good for dysentery, although LARGE doses can cause intestinal upset. Plus other uses.
Devil's Claw is good for the PAIN of Lyme Arthritis, also inflammation. I also noticed very good neural advantages when I first started taking it.
Jim Posted by jasonsmith (Member # 10914) on :
What's good "anti-yeast stuff"?
Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
To combat yeast : cumanda, an herb by nutramedix ( usually very effective ) ; caprylic acid , oregano oil capsules ; biotin; olive leaf extract .
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
alternately (or additionally):
garlic! (see the 'garlic juice threads) pau d' arco (it's common to find combination formulas that have this, garlic, caprylic acid, etc) goldenseal (short term) maybe spilanthes tincture
probiotics (acidophilus and other beneficial intestinal bacteria- it's very important to take these if you're on antibiotics, among other things, they keep yeast in check)
Posted by jasonsmith (Member # 10914) on :
Any websites you recommend to buy this probiotics and anti-yiest stuff at?
I don't want to buy a bunch of these. So, what would be the best probiotic and the best anti-yiest?
Thanks
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
I was on pure Pau d'arco for many months last year. It kept my skin funghi symptoms down. I did my own tincture, from raintree herb. But it didn't cure my skin funghi.
I was on frozen garlic for long too. It's less efficient for funghi than pau d'arco, for skin issues (that's the only funghi I have so far). The killing effect lasts shorter and is weaker.
Other types of garlic product made almost no difference (so far, the frozen garlic or pure garlic chewing are the best). But they were better for parasite cleansing than funghi cleansing in my experience.
I'm now on Rizols, also very powerful. I can't take pau d'arco for the moment, that's why I'm on rizols. But still not cured after more than 2 months of continuous use. I got a nasty stubborn funghi here...
I wonder about Cumanda... Is this stuff REALLY powerful? Has anyone got really rid of a stubborn candida with Cumanda??
And I also wonder if more metal detox is what's missing. I guess best funghi killers can do some of the job, but not all?
I'm on continuous metal detox for almost a year. My funghi is getting slowly better, but it's still there... I guess that Candida should be as stubborn as these skin funghi??
I still have metal intoxication symptoms when I'm on chelators, so I know I'm far from being free of metals.....
Selma
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Jim-Bob and other who use smilax(sarsparilla): Does it have to be taken away from other herbs, meds or supplements as it is a toxin cleaner?
Hiker
Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
I will let Jim Bob answer for himself , but I think it can be taken with food ( I do and so do others) and other herbs. Personally , I would NOT take most herbs at the same time I take drugs , just to prevent one blocking the effectiveness of the other . I do take herbs with vitamins and food and seem to have no problem .
Also , do not take calcium within two hours of taking meds , or they may not be absorbed .
Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
I will let Jim Bob answer for himself , but I think it can be taken with food ( I do and so do others) and other herbs. Personally , I would NOT take most herbs at the same time I take drugs , just to prevent one blocking the effectiveness of the other . I do take herbs with vitamins and food and seem to have no problem .
Also , do not take calcium within two hours of taking meds , or they may not be absorbed . Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
jason: I buy cumanda thru Susan Ambrosino's herb club . It is made by nutramedix and others here say it works for yeast . It does for me. It is not cheap, but lasts a long time. I believe it also kills some strains of lyme , so start on a couple of drops with water daily then raise the dose up to five or six drops.
I use jarrodophilus by Jarrow formulas , which can be purchased at Swnason vitamins ( on sale now ) or places like vitacost or vitaminshoppe. I think it is a good product . I also buy flavored kefir ( like a tart liquid yogurt ) at Drug Emporium. Drug Emporium carries ( often ) a lot of quality supplements , but vitacost or Swanson's are a little cheaper .
Kefir is a good probiotic and the taste is pleasant .
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
I take ALL my herbs together, WITH my meal. Usually AFTER the main course and just before the desert. I take my vitamins at the same time also.
I found when I was taking Amoxicillin for prostatitis the past three weeks, that it killed my gut, (stomach), when taking it with the food. AND found out that if I took it a half hour to one hour BEFORE the meal WITH MILK, I had a lot less problems with it. I took my last Amoxicillin on Saturday night. So far, NO pain.
Jim Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Jennifer,
flavored kefir is often high in sugar. Do you have any interest in making it yourself? I keep a jar of kefir grains (the culture forms little rubbery clumps or a colony) and I just add milk (or soymilk) to it every time I want some. A day or two later it's ready. Eventually when the culture grows big enough the speed with which it makes the kefir will increase.
It's a room-temperature ferment unlike yogurt so it's EXTREMELY easy to make, no special equipment needed. Two days later its done. YOu can flavor it and add stevia or another non-sugar of your choice.
Posted by Clancy (Member # 8774) on :
Selma, Could you describe your skin funghi? I get rashes on and off, but this latest was during a colon and heavy metal cleanse when I used a infrared sauna one time.
The rash is red and raised, doesn't itch, but feels irritated after being touched. Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks.
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
My feet fungi is like athlete's foot, itchy. But not in between toes, only on top (which doesn't seem like athlete's foot..). It just appears in winter months, and disappears in the first day of strong heat of the year.
Then I 'caught' something not itchy on my hands lately. I tested through it ART and everything is positive: fungi, borrelia and bartonela, so I cant' say what's this hand rash. Not usually itchy, it reacts with rizols...
Hubby got another funghi, only in his skin hair: his hair gets white. He's getting that in his armpits. Not itchy.
I guess there are dozens of skin fungi types... If not hundreds??
My feet funghi clearly get worse while I'm metal detoxing (taking stuff to pull metals off, intracellular).
Posted by Clancy (Member # 8774) on :
Thanks, Selma for the descriptions. I am not able to ART test, so I'll treat by trial and error with an anti-fungal cream. Thanks again.
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