I have been taking Buhner's core herbs for about two weeks like the way described below, and it seems working:
I take one TSP of each Buhner's core herb and put in a cup filled with water, mix well and put at room temperature for 5-6 hours before drinking it followed by one full cup of water.
The purpose is to release active compounds from the powders as much as possible.
Herbs taken this way seem more potent and more effective.
[ 13. February 2007, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Dave6002 ]
Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
Is the taste awful? How do you know the herbs are more potent taken this way?
How did you come up with this idea?
I am going to start the protocol and will begin with andrographis. Have you had side effects from the herbs ?
Are you taking ABX with the herbs? Are you starting to feel better ? How long have you been on the herbs ?
Are you also doing rife ?
Thanks for sharing !
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
quote: Is the taste awful? How do you know the herbs are more potent taken this way?
It's OK and you can use a great amount of water or soups (as much as possible) to dilute the taste and also dilute the stomach acids which might destroy the active compounds in the herbs.
I took the herbs th usually way before and I didn't have much effects.
quote: How did you come up with this idea?
The active herb compounds are inside the Herbs, we need some way to release them, that's why we use alcohols to get tincture, hot boiling water to get tea... powders are better than cut form.
I tried tea form with obvious success.
quote: I am going to start the protocol and will begin with andrographis. Have you had side effects from the herbs ?
No, I didn't notice any obvious side effects except I felt stomachach about 30 minutes after I took the herbs. However, once I have doubled the amount of water, the side effect gone away.
quote: Are you taking ABX with the herbs? Are you starting to feel better ? How long have you been on the herbs ?
Yes. Most time I combine the two together. I have a big leap in my recovery. About one month, but I had taken herb on and off about a half year.
quote: Are you also doing rife ?
No. But if the herbs would fail, I might try it, cause I feel it might be the best way to cure Lyme once we find out the correct procedure.
Dave
Posted by Annxyz (Member # 9097) on :
An Observation: I put two andrgraphis tablets in a glass of water . THEY TOOK ABOUT THIRTY MINUTES TO DISSOLVE .
I get TWICE the HERX REACTION when I do this . My point ? I have to question how ell they dissolve in the gut . They seem MUCH more potent when dissolved in water and swigged down quickly ( have a CHASER !!! They taste AWFUL!!)
I think the andro is more efective dissolved , if you are taking tablets. For those taking capsules , the issue is irrelevant .)
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Dave -Interesting! Thanks for posting
So can you put capsules in water also to let them disolve too? Then I wonder what are the capsules purpose? Oy vey, I'm Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Awful doesn't begin to describe how BAD Andrographis tastes. I would QUIT taking Andrographis altogether IF I had to taste it again. I took FIVE bottles of tablets before I went to the capsules. UGH!!!
I know of NO reason WHY the herbs should be actually stronger in water than in capsules. As a matter of fact Buhner recommends the capsules as the BEST way to take MOST of the herbs. Only a few in tincture or tea form.
Having said that, the following is from Herb Lores different ways to take herbs:
* How do you take herbs? There are a number of ways to use herbs, both internally and externally. Herbs can be taken internally as a tea, a tincture (see above), in capsules, as an enema (always use lukewarm/warm water in an enema - never administer an enema cold), or as a suppository. Herbs can be applied externally in an herbal oil, salve, poultice, compress, in a bath soak or as a foot soak. (Some of the old herbalists from centuries past administered herbs to their clients in footbaths only. As strange as this sounds, the herbs were absorbed into the system surprisingly well and they got great results!
Pick your poison!
Jim Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
quote: Then I wonder what are the capsules purpose?
SO far I don't know any special reason except that it's easier to take and quantify than powder.
However, after capsules entered the digestion tract, they have to be disrupted to release their contents, the powder.
Our body cannot absorb the effective compounds in the powder directly.
These effective compounds have to be released from the powder first before they enter our circulation system.
And the releasing process takes time.
How long I don't know for sure.
We know that it takes long time to make tinctures.
So it's reasonable to put powder in water for awhile before you drinking it.
Dave
[ 10. February 2007, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Dave6002 ]
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
I wrote in another thread:
quote: i woke up with racing heart I have this recently and sometime pounding heart, along with poor sleep (only 3-5 hour straight) and stomach upset.
I had been improving till I started Mepron/Zith/Arte for 21 days and latter added sarsaparilla and Japanese knotweed.
I am confused whether it's a herx or flare or side effects.
In retrospect, I would attribute this down to herx from taking herbs this ways.
I never herxed on herbs before and didn't know if anybody herxed on herbs, at least JimBob never herxed on herbs.
This implies that taking herb like this is more potent and can cause herx.
Correspondingly, the dose should be reduced considerably at half or less.
It's worth to point out that the G.I function of lymies is compromised significantly. Therefore the uptake of nutrition as well as medicine is greatly compromised.
The bio-availability of herbs in capsule format might be low.
Food for thought
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Dave: We can't say I NEVER herxed on herbs, as THAT is not true. I have, BUT when I have taken them PROPERLY, I have herxed VERY LITTLE.
WHEN I mixed the wrong herbs, I herxed so bad I thought I was going to die. IT was scarey.
BUT for the most part, IF you take Sarsaparilla, Red Root and Milk Thistle WITH your herbs, you won't herx so bad.
IT HAS NOTHING to do with more killing YOUR way. It HAS TO DO WITH cleaning out your lymph system so you are not overtaxing it, and taking a chance on critical sickness or even death.
PLUS you FEEL better while doing what you need to do.
Jim Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
Sorry, Jim.
You inspired me a lot on herbs and I had the impression that you were so good on herbs hence never herx.
Anyway you have contributed greatly to this board on herbs and would continue to do so I am sure.
Herbs do have some advantages over abx in treating chronic illness like lyme.
Dave
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Yes, Dave, I agree with you 100% that herbs Do have some advantages over abx for treating Lyme.
You WILL feel better, FASTER with the herbs, USUALLY. Remember there are exceptions to every rule.
But I do feel much better taking herbs only. And herx much more when I have taken abx. I think it is the TOTAL regimen that makes the difference. AND you are doing more building rather than destroying when you take herbs instead of abx.
You DO have to experiment a little, AND IF it works for YOU, then so be it, and good luck.
Jim Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
Thanks, Jim.
I plan to go off abx.
I suspect that Tindamax I had taken for several months could be the culprit of the consistent numbness of my hands.
Now I think my main problem is Babesia. The tests (ELISA and FISH) for it were negative though. However, when I am off Arte. my heart would be racing or pounding during the night. When I resume the herb, the symptom would be reduced significantly. Still I think Arte alone is not the answer for Babs.
Now I seem stuck on what medicines I should use to treat Babs.
I had been on two rounds of Mepron/Zith/Arte regimen and didn't have any improvement but sliding.
In you opinion, what herbs should be used for Babs? I do take Artemisia annua whole herb.
By the way do you have Babs coinfection?
Thanks.
Dave
Posted by Annxyz (Member # 9097) on :
Dave, I am sorry the babesia is so entrenched . I do think with your determination you will find something that will work.
I have not tried quina ( by nutramedix ) but have read it is supposed to target babesia . You might do a search .
Have you tried rife ? I think Ernie finally got better with rife and I believe he may have had babesia .
Another herb that people here have posted about that is strong is teasel .
I am really wondering if Jim Bob's fast progress on herbs may have been somewhat related to the fact that he DID USE whole herbs .
Buhner does state that the whole herb is MOST EFFECTIVE and can attack more strains of pathogens ( if I recall correctly ) .
I am sending a prayer your way that you find a solution . Keep us posted please .
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Here's Buhner's writeup at Planet Thrive about babesia and herbs- it's in response to a question by Eric, who posts here as Polar Blast, I think:
Yes... I know someone who just started using cryptolepsis. I will try to find out how it is working, or see if they might post on the subject.
Claire
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
Thanks Ann and Maria for the information about other possible treatments for Babs.
Overall I am still improving, however, it seem hard to get rid of the babs symptoms.
Cryptolepsis has been successfully used against malaria.
I am doing more research on rife and thought it would be my next step if herbs fail.
Best wishes
Dave
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Dave: First off, I have never been tested. So did not know IF I had Babesia or not.
When I took Artemisinin all I did was get tired.
When I went to Artemisia annua, I did feel SOME herxes. I was on my third regimen of it when I also started Coptis and I had such bad reactions I quit all herbs for a few days and slowly re-introduced them into my system.
I did go back to the Coptis a few months later, but I have never gone back to the Artemisia annua, as of this writing.
I now don't take Coptis either. I went back to Andrographis.
I have not tried Cryptolepsis, but IF Buhner recommends it, go for it if you feel you really have Babesia. I was only taking the Artemisia annua just in case I did have it. I don't think I did.
Keep working at it. Don't keep up with abx for any length of time, they only make the ketes go into cyst form on MANY people. Pulse abx IF you are going to use them. But keep on taking the herbs both with or without the abx.
Jim Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
For babesiosis, Dr. K. seems to recommend either salt/C OR PC-Noni OR pulsed artemisinin high doses.
I used: PC-Noni, low amounts, my remaining babs symptoms disappeared quite fast.
Later I used the KMT too, but I don't think I had babs symptoms when I did that.
No artemisinin protocol helped me get rid of babs.
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