GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Quinolinic Acid (Quin ) is a potent neurotoxin. Spirochetes induce microglia of brain (4% of brain mass) to convert tryptophane into this compound. Elevated in chronic neuroborreliosis in CSF. In brain tissue, 10 times increased over CNS level. Potent synergistic effect with ROS (Lyme spirochetes are potent ROS inducers. ROS are used by macrophags and other white cells to kill spirochetes)
Quin effects:
Interference with neurotransmitter production Damage to synaptic connections Brain atrophy/cerebral volume loss Neuronal death
Quin Treatment:
Chlorella and CGF in high doses (Biopure) Cilantro and Detox Foot bath Mucuna Powder Zinc: prevents hippocampal damage from Quin Copper (at low doses) reduces strital GABA depletion and blocks oxidative injury to neurons -- use combination 30 mg zinc picolinate with 2 mg copper Resveratrol from Japanese Knotweed (Source Naturals, 500 mg whole herb/capsule. Use 3-4 caps 3-4 times/day) Phospholipid Exchange (Biopure): EDTA, alpha lipic acid prevent ROS damage. Phospholipids repair toxic injury and work as a shuttle agent to bring other toxin binding substances to deep tissue places. 1 tbsp/day. KMT microcurrent therapy Lymphatic drainage and colon hydrotherapy
Take care.
(Notes from a Dr. K. Seminar)
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
Thanks for posting this information, Gigi.
I have been a little confused about zinc. I read somewhere that zinc is either too high or that it is somehow being 'misused' in the body in cases of lyme.
I have noticed a difference when supplementing with copper, both for my daughter and myself. We tested low for it, but not for zinc. Somehow, I think my daughter is more energetic. But too still too early to tell.
Maybe we can better utilize zinc now that copper is coming back up?
My daughter did once have all the signs of being 'neurotoxic' due to confused thinking and erratic emotions. Various supplements have helped along with the foot detox baths.
Also... macuna powder is from mung beans? Is it effective to simply eat mung beans? It is a recommended staple of an ayurvedic doctor we used to see.
Thank you.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Yes, protection against QUIN neurotoxicity is important, thanks for bringing it up GiGi! Quinolinic acid is no joke for lyme sufferers! Protect yourself before you wreck yourself!!
I wouldn't doubt if QUIN-mediated degeneration of hypothalamic orexin neurons(5) could be responsible for the narcoleptic-like fatigue symptoms that some Lyme sufferer's have.
Selenium(8), melatonin(2)(3), and S-Allylcysteine(1), protect against QUIN neurotoxicity. I'm not sure what form of selenium is best, right now I'm taking L-selenomethionine, but I think Methylselenocysteine may be superior. I take time-released melatonin at night for protection sometimes too.
I think NMDA antagonists protect too, like magnesium, zinc, and L-Theanine(7).
Copper also protects against QUIN, but I avoid it because of reports of it being elevated in people with Autism and ADHD, and therefore having a negative effect in such people.
Oh, and Gaba(A) agonistic drugs(5) (Brand names: valium, xanax, klonopin, xyrem, ambien, etc) that cause stimulation of Gaba(A) receptors will also protect against QUIN. However, I think that the rebound-effect from when they wear off, may leave you more vulnerable to QUIN toxicity than before.
Also since QUIN toxicity is dependent on Nitric Oxide Synthase(9), NO Synthase inducers like L-Deprenyl, and Resveratrol will protect against some QUIN damage as well. Ginkgo might induce NOS as well, I can't remember for sure though.
---------- ---------- ---------- "Although neurologic dysfunction occurs frequently in patients with Lyme borreliosis, it is rarely possible to demonstrate the causative organism within the neuraxis.
This discordance could arise if neurologic symptoms were actually due to soluble neuromodulators produced in response to infection.
Since immune stimulation is associated with the production of quinolinic acid (QUIN), an excitotoxin and N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) agonist, we measured levels of CSF and serum QUIN, and lymphokines.
Samples were obtained from 16 patients with CNS Borrelia burgdorferi infection, eight patients with Lyme encephalopathy (confusion without intra-CNS inflammation), and 45 controls. CSF QUIN was substantially elevated in patients with CNS Lyme and correlated strongly with CSF leukocytosis.
In patients with encephalopathy, serum QUIN was elevated with corresponding increments in CSF QUIN. Lymphokine concentrations were not consistently elevated. We conclude that CSF QUIN is significantly elevated in B burgdorferi infection--dramatically in patients with CNS inflammation, less in encephalopathy.
The presence of this known agonist of NMDA synaptic function--a receptor involved in learning, memory, and synaptic plasticity--may contribute to the neurologic and cognitive deficits seen in many Lyme disease patients."(6) ---------- ---------- ----------
-------------------- "You know, the worst, meanest, nastiest, ticks in the world are politicks," - Steve Nostrum Posts: 242 | From South NJ | Registered: Dec 2006
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Nice posts! Excellent points. All missed by most doctors and patients alike. Appreciate very much the reminder and kudos to Eric on having such strong sources to support his statements! Nice
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
there's a lot of info on QUIN mediation (or whatever it's called) in Buhner's Healing Lyme book. I seem to recall that another herb besides resveratrol helps deal with it- it's one of the add-on herbs from his expanded protocl, that I personally dont' take so I'm unfamiliar with the effects.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
Thanks!
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
Eric said:
quote:Copper also protects against QUIN, but I avoid it because of reports of it being elevated in people with Autism and ADHD, and therefore having a negative effect in such people.
Copper can most definately be toxic/dangerous in high and possibly moderate levels, as I am not sure what the threshold is. And I have read that it can be behind some of children's behavioral problems. But if we are low in copper this can also be a real concern. I think it has a correlation with aneurisms, but it can interfere with health in other ways also.
In lyme disease, there is a real displacement or imbalance of minerals, and it is not consistent with each individual, or at least it does not seem so. So it seems worthwhile to understand which direction we are in with copper. Our health is changing for the better with homeopathic supplementation.
I will try to bring up a separate topic at some point for a more in-depth discussion.
Thank you for the rest of the research/links you provided, and to Gigi for starting this topic. Very helpful
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
quote: Quin Treatment: Resveratrol from Japanese Knotweed (Source Naturals, 500 mg whole herb/capsule. Use 3-4 caps 3-4 times/day)
The most amazing thing happened to me when I took Resveratrol. I could think the way I used to.
However, this was short lived, as I developed kidney pain, and I stopped the Resveratrol.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
Hmmm? I wonder - could autism and ADHD and high copper tie into my cell phone theory here?
Robert Becker points out in his books that copper is an excellent 'conductor' and pretty much everywhere. It's very hard to develop a copper defiency because most foods have some.
But the reason I bring this up is because we're basically antennas here on earth. But with cell phones and wireless sending off signals of their own, are autism and ADHD merely the result of the body's desperation to hear through those crazy signals?
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posted
I know this is an older post, but I guess I missed it before. Do want to add one point.
I believe that elevated quinolinic acid is one of the reasons many Lyme patients have adverse reactions to SSRI's. The purpose of these drugs is to keep serotonin more active. Serotonin is made from tryptophan. It is my understanding that infections and more specifically brain infections cause the body to convert tryptophan into quinolinic acid by an alternative metabolic pathway.
Hubby can take 5HTP for sleep without problems if he takes Resveratrol.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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valymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7076
posted
I have been out of resveratrol for about two months now after taking it for 5 months along with other herbs/supplements.
I have absolutely no short term memory and find myself taking too many seconds to recall the next word in a sentence.
Interesting this post came up from Gigi 'cause I went to my Buhner book yesterday to see what I could find on neurotoxins.
Posts: 1240 | From Centreville,VA | Registered: Mar 2005
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