I am wondering, if rife machines get rid of lyme by causing DNA damage, can it also damage normal healthy cells. I don't see why not.
I bought the book on rife and haven't had a chance to get reading it. I have surgery again a week from today, so probably when I can't run all over with the kids, I'll be able to get through the book.
Just wondering though. Anyone have any research on this?
Thanks a head of time.
Mary
Posted by CaliforniaLyme (Member # 7136) on :
It is something I FREQUENTLY WORRY ABOUT!!! On behalf of others-
Posted by sizzled (Member # 1357) on :
I worry about this too.
Especially since the original papers of Royal Rife were never found. These machines are being built on theory from his works.
His machine CURED cancers but there hasn't been true research since. Perhaps, the same forces that persecuted Royal are still present.
Do ya think? Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
Since it has never been reported to cause cancer I do not know why anyone would would pick cancer to be a potential side effect.
Your cell phone runs much higher frequencies that are in the range to possibly cause cellular problems. Even that is not without dispute.
I know of several people that have used Rife in an attempt get rid of cancer. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
It works well for many with Lyme disease and has not, to my knowledge, caused any of the known side effects associated with other more conventional treatments.
Acetominophen the active ingredient in Tylenol and other pain relievers is one of the leading causes of liver failure and no one even mentions it. I am sure several here use it regularly.
Why worry about a side effect that is not even known to exist, when there are plenty of known ones in medicines you use every day?
D Bergy
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by sizzled: His machine CURED cancers but there hasn't been true research since. Perhaps, the same forces that persecuted Royal are still present.
Do ya think?
You got it! Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Yikes,I hope not.
But since I can no longer stomach my meds for My TBI's after 12 years of use, there's really no choice. The herbs are just as hard on my stomach now, so not an option for me.
It's comes down to rife & taking my chances with it or unchecked lyme disease & it's co-infections.
I think my TBI's will kill me faster than my rife machine. For me, I would rather take my chance with rife.
Rife may give me cancer someday but unchecked lyme disease will kill me for sure since I had heart involment. Don't really like either of my options.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by 5dana8: I think my TBI's will kill me faster than my rife machine. For me, I would rather take my chance with rife.
So true!! Posted by lymewreck36 (Member # 4395) on :
Hmmmm.....these answers, and I am grateful for every response, don't necessarily make me feel better about the cancer thing.
But, when the potential for cancer is weighed against the existant misery from lyme I suffer, I guess I cannot rule out rife.
Thanks, Mary
Posted by aiden424 (Member # 7633) on :
I'm not sure if a Rife machine causes cancer or not. I'm not sure if all the antibiotics and other meds I've tried will cause cancer either. I don't think we get any guarantees.
Kathy
Posted by lymewreck36 (Member # 4395) on :
Well, it is hard for me to believe that the cancer issue has not been fully addressed since there is a book on the market about rife. I'll have to look further into the book.
People talk about cell phones causing brain tumors, right?
Mary
Posted by lymewreck36 (Member # 4395) on :
o.k. just did a search on rife and I see I am not the first person to ask these questions. I'll have to read through all the previous posts on the subject.
Mary
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
quote:Well, it is hard for me to believe that the cancer issue has not been fully addressed since there is a book on the market about rife. I'll have to look further into the book.
There simply is no cancer issue to address.
It is an experimental treatment that has not been approved as a medical device by the FDA in the U.S.
Just as my Ginger has not been approved as a anti nausea drug.
It has no known harmful effects, but it has not been tested in a rigorous manner since it is not an approved medical treatment. Some unknown side effect is is possible as it is with anything else.
No one was exposed to a Rife machine frequencies more than Royal Rife and he lived a normal cancer free life until the end, although alcoholism likely played a role in his death.
Best Regards
D Bergy
Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :
Wasn't it Dr. B who use to voice concern about the use of rife? But then again you can always find a Dr. that has no problems with it.
With this disease seems you have to go down what ever avenue that makes you feel better.
Posted by citruslyme (Member # 7851) on :
when I was doing some research on cancer I checked that rife kills cancer...........but the article also cautioned that it can activate the bad cells as well. soooo I think it's something we need to caution with.
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
How can anyone know what Rife's side effects are, over the long term, unless it is studied? Clearly, it can do everything but ressurect the dead, or so the testimonials claim. Why is it so hard to accept that a medical device that powerful might not cause problems in some users? And if it did, who would the patients complain to, or sue? Ebay? And where would you find a lawyer to take the case?
Posted by robi (Member # 5547) on :
I do not think rife is a "fist option". However, if life is a living hell ............. why not try it?
robi
Posted by robi (Member # 5547) on :
quote:Originally posted by Greatcod: How can anyone know what Rife's side effects are, over the long term, unless it is studied?
I don't think you can. But what Lyme treatment has been studied long term? Last I heard there were studies saying long term ABX could cause cancer.
[QUOTE]Clearly, it can do everything but ressurect the dead, or so the testimonials claim. Why is it so hard to accept that a medical device that powerful might not cause problems in some users? [QUOTE] I don't think anyone is denying there could be problems.
[QUOTE]And if it did, who would the patients complain to, or sue? Ebay? And where would you find a lawyer to take the case? [QUOTE]
I suppose we have to be responsible for our own decisions and the outcome of those decisions. With ANY Lyme treatment I don't see any other way. Would you sue your LLMD if you got cancer? Why does someone else have to be responsible?
Please do not think I do not take this seriously, I do. And certainly developing cancer is a scary prospect.
The pain and brain fog from Lyme has made my previously happy, successful, life into a miserable one. I have tried years of ABX ........... it ain't working.
Also, I think there are many things we do that have been proven to be linked to cancer .......... lots of folks are doing those things .................. rife has not been proven to cause cancer ............... it is a fear but not a definite. Let's say you rife and take exceptional care of your body and diet. Are you at more or less risk of cancer than someone who smokes and does not rife? What about food additives, water contamination, etc. Who knows? Oh and then there are all the studies .............. do we really think they are accurate. How many studies turn out to be wrong?
All I am saying is, this is not reckless or an unreasonable risk at some point.
robi
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
A Rife machine is not a medical device. It is a frequency generator, often modified, that you can use for research however you wish.
It carries no guarantee, as to its effectiveness or possible side effects. I do not believe any other treatment does either.
It will likely never be studied, at least not in the U.S. because it simply does not make economic sense to spend millions in research to make thousands in profits in the hopes of selling them as an unpatentable medical devices.
The same applies to any non-profitable unpatentable herb, supplement, device, procedure, etc.
Profit drives treatments, cures, and the research behind them. So you can wait for research that is unlikely to come and wait for approval, and wait for the physicians to start using them.
Or, you can try it for yourself and accept the fact that there is a chance it may not work or that it could have some unknown side effect.
It is an individual decision that nobody can make for you. You are trading one risk for another, no matter what you do. I am not aware of any risk free treatments for Lyme. For us it made sense to use a method that had no known risk for Lyme disease. That left the unknown risk, if there is any. That was what we decided, but different people measure risk differently. I was satisfied that this was less risky than the other options we had available to us since they all carried known risks. We have not regretted that decision.
Please use whatever treatment method you are comfortable with. Rife is never going to be popular with the masses. The individual being treated has to live with the decision made, no one else.
D Bergy
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
Of course, Rife's advocates promote it as a medical device, one used to improve the condition of desperately sick people. That invites and deserves research and regulation. I suspect that very few people who buy one use it to do medical research, say on lab rats. They try to heal themseves. In the same way, people promote herbs as medicine, and again invite research, which is happening on a widescale basis, and regulation. Its all very serious business, and most people can see through the word games.
Posted by robi (Member # 5547) on :
I am not playing word games. I am not making a profit on rife machines. I don' think D bergy is either. Why are you invested in knocking what folks are using to try to get better? If you don't like it, don't use it. It is simple.
robi
Posted by Vanilla (Member # 11155) on :
I think Ben Laden has the rife papers with him at whatever Ritz Carlton he is holed up in.
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
Rife use frequencies fall into long radio waves, from 1 to 100,000Hz.
Because these frequencies have very long wave length, they have very low energy, too low to cause mutations in DNA.
On the other hand, it's known that some high frequencies can cause DNA mutations and cause cancers, like UV lights, Gamma rays and X-rays,which are emitted from radioactive materials.
These waves have much high frequencies, from 10,000,000,000,000,000 to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Hz.
Because these frequencies are very high, they have very short wave length, therefore very high energy, enough to cause mutations of DNA and cause cancers.
In conclusion, Rife frequencies don't have the energy to cause DNA mutations, hence Rife doesn't cause cancers.
Dave
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
All this is not a case of alternative treatments versus conventional medicine. They all have to answer the same questions. How effective are they? How cost effective are they? What are the side effects?
And there is no reason whatsoever to prevent any treatment, conventional or alternative, from being questioned. The alternative supporters seem eager to bash conventional medicine, but act as if their alternative treatments are above criticism.
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
For me it comes down to this: Untreated Lyme will kill me ...rife may or may not kill me. I did do IV & orals for 12 years but can no longer do so.
Like Robi & the others have said it is a personal choice.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
I am pragmatic and will use whatever is effective, allopathic or alternative, doesn't matter to me.
For what it's worth, I've used muscle testing for well over a decade because it has been very effective at helping me control my symptoms. I've tested for the safety of rife for myself and my husband and we are satisfied that it is safe for US. Doesn't mean it is safe for everyone but I am comfortable using it.
I think it's entirely possible that untreated lyme causes cancer in some people since immune system function is very important in cancer and as we know, lyme and co's bring down the immune system.
It is not uncommon for untreated lyme to include a diagnosis of fibromyalgia. A study involving 6569 people shows that fibromyalgia patients are 3X more likely to die from cancer. (Macfarlane GJ, et al. BMJ 2001; 323:1-5)
Cave wrote:
quote: Yep---- if I had late stage cancer, nothing else had worked, not even shark fin, I'd hook those electrodes right up!
Unfortunately this is what often happens. People wait until the cancer is advanced because they've tried everything else. Then they claim the alternative treatment does not work because it did not work for their loved one. We heard this a lot when my husband had cancer.
Cave wrote of the word testimonial:
quote: It would be interesting to see how many times that word appeared in PubMed articles.
As has been pointed out, studies don't happen on a lot of alternatives because the bucks aren't there. Many of the studies on PubMed are sponsored by groups that have an interest in the bucks. Anytime there is a financial interest in the outcome of a study, that study is susceptible to manipulation. I've no doubt that there are plenty of studies that have been manipulated. We've all read about them.
I like to use whatever info is available, including testimonials and studies and weight them along with logic, intuition and any other info I can muster. Terry
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
The question is-Does Rife cause cancer? And the answer is-Nobody knows.
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
It's known that the cancer-causing ability of electromagnetic radiations depends on how high the frequencies.
UV lights have 1E16 Hz of frequency, or 10,000,000,000,000,000Hz, can cause cancers, so can other electromagnetic radiations that have higher frequencies, such as X-rays and gamma-rays.
X-rays are widely used in medical diagnosis, such as chest X-ray and CT-scan.
There are concerns about radiation exposures when use X-rays.
While gamma-rays are exclusively used for cancer therapy.
Rife(EMEM and Coil machine) use 21 to 10,000Hz, usually below 1,000Hz.
Suppose we use 10,000Hz for riffing, which has 1E12 times less energy(1E16 divided by 10,000=1E12)than UV lights.
In another word, you need one thousand billion (1,000,000,000,000) times stronger electromagnetic radiations for Rife to cause cancers.
That's impossible for a Rife to reach that high energy.
So I don't think that Rife can cause cancers.
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
But isn't Rife also used to treat cancer? If it can damage or destroy a cancerous human cell, might it not also damage or destroy healthy human cells?
Posted by robi (Member # 5547) on :
quote:Originally posted by Greatcod: The alternative supporters seem eager to bash conventional medicine, but act as if their alternative treatments are above criticism.
Wow, I have not seen this. Hope you don't see me as bashing conventional, I have used it extensively.
just clarifying
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
Rife did use frequencies to treat cancer in mice. He never actually treated a human although humans were treated by doctors with his machine.
The frequencies target the virus that Rife identified as one cause of cancer. He did not say it was the only cause of cancer. Viruses and bacteria react to much lower frequencies than human cells. The virus or bacteria is the target in using frequencies for disease, not cells.
As stated earlier, the high frequencies required to have an negative effect on human cells are not attainable with the low power of a Rife machine. However it is possible to eliminate useful stomach bacteria, but as it grows back quickly it is not a big problem. I have not heard of any Lyme frequencies that produce this effect.
The most reliable place to get information on Rife is at the site listed below. There is lots of bogus information on the internet also. Unfortunately, Rife's name has become somewhat of a sideshow with lots of hype and questionable products sold under his name.
The current theory is that cancers are caused by gene mutations resulted from DNA damages caused by high frequency electromagnetic radiations, such as UV lights, X-rays and gamma rays, chemical carcinogens, e.g. present in tobacco smockings, and viruses that can insert their DNA into human DNAs.
In addition, bacterial infections can also cause cancers, like H. pylori can cause stomach cancers.
However, Rife frequencies do not have the energy to cause DNA damage.
So the statement that Rife can cause cancers has no theoretical bases.
Of course, Rife might have other unknown side effects.
However, right now, there are no reasons to believe that Rife has more side effects than other treatments, including abx, herbs.
Posted by efsd25 (Member # 2272) on :
Based upon Robert Becker's book "The Body Electric", certain frequences can cause DNA problems during mitosis/cell division. So I would not use rife techniques on children. However, older people with less cell growth, it's probably not a big deal.
That being said, I know of parents who used long term rife on their children and the kids have grown up just fine.
Also I agree with Dave6002 that the EM field strengths used in rife are low enough, that they will not hurt you. It is the frequency you need to be careful of. Do not rife with frequencies below 100 hertz. Our bodies use low frequencies between 1-30 hertz, so we don't want to mess with those, and Becker's research(The Body Electric) shows issues with 30-60 hertz.
Remember we are exposed to 60 hertz everyday( but low field strength), since that is what our USA power grid is at, and we are OK. So I would take Becker's book with a grain of salt.
Ernie
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
His book is very interesting. Most people are not aware that a child can grow the end of an amputated finger back if it is not sewn shut. I have won a few bets using that information from his book.
I would also be more hesitant to use Rife on children. They can react differently than adults to many things.
D Bergy
Posted by lymewreck36 (Member # 4395) on :
O.K. I got some really great stuff out of this discussion. And yes, I did say that I couldn't believe the cancer thing and rife had not been studied, since there was a book on the market about rife.
The moment after I hit the enter button and posted that, I thought to myself, what a stupid thing to say. I, of all people, ought to know that just about anything is in print, and research is not dictated by what is on the market.
Wow, brain cramp if ever there were one.
Mary
Posted by Just Me (Member # 11827) on :
There is no proven efficacy and safety for rifing, and the theory behind it is also not convincing, lacking logic. The burden of proof is on the rifers. I guess Brian Rosner is making enough money with his books and websites to fund scientific studies about the efficacy of rifing. The first studies can be in vitro and animal studies. Until such studies are done, we can only speculate if rifing really works.
Posted by charlie (Member # 25) on :
You nailed it Seamus, shouldn't be too difficult to do this if only in an amateur lab setting....
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
Maybe I think a little differently than the average person but when I see a whole group using Rife to treat Lyme disease and most of them get better, I tend to think maybe it works.
Or when I see my wife wracked with arthritis pain and fevers, rages, get back to normal in several months using nothing but a Rife device, I get the feeling that maybe it works.
While this is not an official double blind study I think I was given these powers of observation for some valid reason.
Then again as I said, I may not think the same way as most people.
D Bergy
Posted by efsd25 (Member # 2272) on :
D Bergy you say it so nicely! I agree with your comments and approach. I didn't wait for a double blind study, I just tried it, based on observations similar to yours.
Franky, most folks come around after they have tried antibiotics for a few years and plateaued at the same time going broke. I don't even try to convert, as they will convert themselves once they tire of abx. In the meantime I am just getting better.
Last year climbed Kilimanjaro with my family, this summer hoping to climb Mt. Rainier.
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