Hi everyone. I'm doing natural abx for lyme right now and was looking for a natural cyst buster. I read GSE grapefruit seed extract is a cyst buster.... any luck with it? Also-- are there any other cyst buster out there that are natural? Thanks so much
[ 07. May 2007, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: citruslyme ]
Posted by citruslyme (Member # 7851) on :
up for suggestions
Posted by Searching4Answers (Member # 11079) on :
I am interested too. Also, can you take grapefruit seed extract with Biaxin? I thought someone said you couldn't. Anyone know?
Posted by clpgotlyme (Member # 7875) on :
Citrus, I am going to try this as soon as I get used to my new antidepressant for migraine prevention (and mild depression). I have not been able to tolerate any other cyst-busters. Will post after I get started. Cindy
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
Look into proteolytic enzymes. Also bee products, and bee venom therapy. They are on my list for exploration, but I don't know enough about them yet to inform.
Posted by catalysT (Member # 10786) on :
bejoy - good pointing that out. I really think bromelain and serrapeptase are helping me in conjunction with my antibiotic. And I want to pursue bee venom therapy in the future when I have more money (if I were tougher, I'd get a free one by making one sting me in the neck!).
Not a lot is known about "cyst busters" really. I mean, if you think hydroxychloroquine (plaquenil), and metronidazole (flagyl) work well, than you can probably assume that other similar drugs/chemicals will work well too.
I'm assuming that some anti-malarial drugs and herbs/chemicals will work as well. This one plant and drug that I am currently very very interested in trying is Curcuma Xanthorhizza, aka Temu Lawak, aka Java Tumeric.
The chemical that I am most interested in, in it, is xanthorrhizol. I really wanted to get a supercritical CO2 extract of the plant, instead of taking the raw stuff, because I don't think massive phenols are good for leaky gut.
However, I think I'm going to order some from here soon anyway. It has shown a high in-vitro efficacy against babesia gibsoni, fungi, candida, malaria, and oral pathogens & bio-film.
So long as it is bio-available (I will probably add piperine/bioperine to increase the bioavail) and can get into the cell, I believe theres a good chance that this herb will be truly helpful for babesia, candida, cyst forms (and regular possibly) of Borrelia Burgdorferi (lyme), etc. It is also anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant, anti-viral, and is potentially useful in fighting cancer.
I was going to do a whole write-up post on it, but thanks for sorta bringing up the topic anyway citruslyme. Welp, I'll be glad to report back on how I feel on it. If anybody else decides to try it though, please post back what your experience with it is !!!
Antibacterial activity of xanthorrhizol from Curcuma xanthorrhiza against oral pathogens.
Xanthorrhizol: a potential antibacterial agent from Curcuma xanthorrhiza against Streptococcus mutans.
[ 08. May 2007, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: catalysT ]
Posted by citruslyme (Member # 7851) on :
Good idea Eric-- let us know how it goes. you are right antimalarials should do the job too. I am interested in Quina By www.nutramedix.com because Cowden uses it for his lyme protocal. It is mainly for babesia, but since it's an antiprotzoal, I am assuming it can bust the cyst form of lyme? I am having some success with Cowdens cumanda and samento so i am thinking about maybe adding quina as a cyst buster, but not sure how strong it would be?
Posted by citruslyme (Member # 7851) on :
searchin4-- yes I believe you can take GSE with abx. I believe someone here told me they were taking it via Dr H. I herxed super bad on it and am looking for some other cyst buster to also consider. up for ideas
Posted by lymewreck36 (Member # 4395) on :
I did the research on grapefruit seed for cyst busting. It appears that the way it is formulated actually renders the seed itself useless. It is the additives that seem to harm the cysts, and it is the additives that pollute your body with toxins you cannot get rid of. Let me see if I can find those links......
There is more to be found than just the two links I provided. I believe there are better links. Don't have time to look them all up right now, but that is a start.
If anyone can argue the use of GSE and its safety, I am open to hearing it as I need a cyst buster. I cannot take flagyl or tini.
HOpe that helps. Mary
Posted by catalysT (Member # 10786) on :
quote:Originally posted by lymewreck36: It is the additives that seem to harm the cysts, and it is the additives that pollute your body with toxins you cannot get rid of.
I pretty much came to the same conclusion about the additives/semi-synthetic byproducts being the more active anti-microbial constituents. I'm not sure that your body can't get rid of the chemicals though, what makes you think that, or that they are any worse than other pharmaceutical antibiotics?
Citruslyme - Yea, quina contains quinine which is anti-malarial, and could possibly be anti-lyme cyst.
There are various ways to attack plasmodium falciparum (malaria parasite), but if one drug attacks it one way, that does not necessarily mean it will also be effective against lyme cysts, it just happens that some anti-malarial/protozoal compounds seem to be somewhat effective against lyme cysts too.
Quinine looks fairly toxic/dangerous though, and I was going to try safer herbs/drugs before I really tried that.
I know quinine harbors the risk of tinnitus, amongst other things, which I won't take lightly after reading about it here. I am already on hydroxychloroquine (plaquenil) though, so adding quinine probably would make it more effective. But I'd still rather try safer chemicals/herbs first.
I (and scientists too) really have to do more research on how chemicals are effective cyst busters in the first place, so one could hypothesize more on how to go about breaking the cysts. We know for malaria that using multi-drug/herb combinations seem to be most effective.
The columbia research center's now open, hopefully something like that will come from there soon.
[ 08. May 2007, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: catalysT ]
Posted by lymewreck36 (Member # 4395) on :
Hi Eric. I wish I could be more specific, and once again I am in a hurry. I'll have to search out those other studies I looked at on this subject.
But I did look at them in detail, and did so with my husband who is a Ph.D. chemist. There is an additive that stays in the body, much like mercury does, and just builds up.
Hopefully tonight I can get back to this and find the links for you guys.
O.K. Here is one description of a grapefruit seed product: "Although described simply as Grapefruit Seed Extract, Citricidal is more complex: it is synthesized from the polyphenolic (flavonoid) compounds found in the mixture of grapefruit seeds and pulp that is left over from production of grapefruit juice. The manufacture is described as follows:
Grapefruit pulp and seed is dried and ground into a fine powder. The powder is dissolved in purified water and distilled to remove the fiber and pectin. The distilled slurry is spray dried at low temperatures forming a concentrated flavonoid powder.
This concentrated powder is dissolved in vegetable glycerine and heated. Food grade ammonium chloride and ascorbic acid are added, and this mixture is heated under pressure. The amount of ammonium chloride remaining in finished Citricidal is 15-19%; the amount of ascorbic acid remaining is 2.5-3.0%.
The ammoniated mixture undergoes catalytic conversion using natural catalysts, including hydrochloric acid and natural enzymes. There is no residue of hydrochloric acid after the reaction. The slurry is cooled, filtered, and treated with ultraviolet light.
The main active components in the finished product are a group of quaternary ammonium chlorides, including benzethonium chloride (illustrated here) or a compound nearly identical to it, that make up about 8-17% of the product. Benzethonium chloride is a well-known synthetic antiseptic agent; it is not added to the grapefruit extract, but is formed from the original grapefruit flavonoids by the ammoniation process. "
O.K. Here is a link regarding GSE toxicity issues.
I asked Stephen Buhner this question on Planet Thrive and he said that GSE isn't absorbed into the bloodstream, so unless you're only treating the gut, it will have little to no impact.
This was in an email response to my question, and supposedly the answer will be posted on the website, but so far I haven't seen it. It seems to take a long time for them to post things on that site...something I don't really understand.
Posted by citruslyme (Member # 7851) on :
That's strange when I took the GSE I felt it penetrated deep into my body and opened cysts in my spine! It made my spin sx a million times worse, swollen joints , hot, painfl, and contorted. Now I out it asside and the cysts closed again.
I wonder if it is a better cyst buster than flagyl? Also I wonder if it is safer than flagyl? I read flagyl can cause peripheral neuropathy.
Posted by lymewreck36 (Member # 4395) on :
I took high dose flagyl for a long time and ended up with permanent neuropathy that drives me crazy. Have to be very careful with flagyl and tini.
I wish I thought GSE were safe! I would love to try it. Some reports on cyst busting are circulating.