Upon re-reading my llmd's overall instructions I see "follow the yeast-free/sugar-free diet" highlighted.
I'm not sure I can add the stress of a diet on top of all the other crap I'm going thru, but I do feel compelled to ask...
What IS a yeast-free/sugar-free diet, and is it REALLY that important in the treatment of lyme/coinfections?
My effort in this so far has been limited to stopping beer consumption...which is actually a pretty big deal for me.
I've got 3 young kids, work full time, and I lack the time and patience for multiple meal prep...
Do most of you follow yeast-free/sugar-free diets?
Is this sort of diet necessary for antibiotic effectiveness, or is this for preventing candida or other yeast infections?
LM
[ 17. October 2007, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: LocalMan ]
Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
please do a search for this.
It has been mentioned numerous times. If you dont do this, you might have trouble down the road. I for example will have a beer and feel hugover or have a doughnut and have stabbing pains in my feet and also feel hungover.
If you want, you can wait untill you get to that point.
For me its all veggies and meat. Nothing else.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
If you don't follow the diet, you'll be sorry sooner or later. May as well bypass all the additional agony candida can cause.
I followed the yest/free-sugar free diet for months. After slipping up and eating cake I got horrible nerve pain throughout my body and developed systemic yeast.
I now follow the diet again and am still dealing with the yeast. yeast can make you feel awful too, dont risk it, follow the diet. It is hard at first but necessary for your overall health.
Posted by LocalMan (Member # 11648) on :
Thanks for your input,
Candida really sucks, right? Do probiotics help prevent that? How do you know for sure when you have it? I suddenly have a weird tase in my mouth...paranoia?
This leads to next question:
Is this diet primarily addressing candida and neuro symptoms (very bad yes agreed) or does it reduce the effect of the antibio treatment itself? (zith/mepron/plaquinil)
So you really only eat meat and veggies?!
OK that's 3 of you on it...many more?
LM
Posted by meg (Member # 22) on :
Local...
Probiotics help, but don't cure Candida. Diet and probiotics will.
"Successful control and elminiation of a Candida Albicans overgrowth requires a multifaceted program as described below. Failure to follow ALL the steps simultaneously will result in slow progress and will lengthen healing time significantly. The program should be tailored to the individual and must balance the need to eliminate the Candida and deprive it of its food source while insuring proper nutrition for the individual."
Five Steps to Candida Elimination:
1. You must starve it into submission by eliminating its food source.
2. You must kill it with anti-fungal herbs and supplements. [e.g....garlic, onion, caprylic acid, Pau D'Arco capsules or tea, clove, grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, tea tree oil, Echinacea, Goldenseal, black walnut, MSM, barberry root, uva ursi, neem leaf, biotin]
3. You must reestablish the proper balance and quantity of probiotic bacteria in the digestive tract. [...multi-strain lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidus capsules with FOS should be taken between meals to maximize repopulation of the digestive tract by beneficial bacteria.]
4. You must reestablish proper levels of all B vitamins (yeast free) and utilize other immune enhancing supplements to boost immune system function. [e.g ... B complex vitamins (yeast free), biotin, beta 1-3 glucan, colostrum, maitake mushroom, vitamins A, C, E, zinc and selenium]
5. You must cleanse and heal the digestive tract to promote proper elimination of toxins and Candida and assimilation of nutrients. [e.g...chlorophyll, MSM, omega 3 fatty acids found in flax seed and salmon oils, GLA found in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils. Pantothenic acid, digestive enzymes between meals] lyme disease in Europe is http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EuroLyme/
Candida causes a condition known as Leaky Gut Syndrome. Literally, the candida eats through the intestinal lining (which is porous already). It creates large holes that allow things into your bloodstream that were never meant to be there like parasites, bacterias & fungi.
Once in your system, these microbes can reek total havoc. You will think it is lyme when it is actually the leaky gut.
For me, diet reduced my swelling and joint pain by 50% within 2 weeks. I was on a vegan diet (no meat, dairy, eggs). I sought out a doctor trained in nutrition and leaky gut. He bloodtested me for food allergies (skin prick is no good). The results of this test told me what to avoid and what I could eat. I was able to add meat back into my diet.
Eating foods that grew that way is the safest way to eat until you uncover your food allergies. Don't think food allergies just give you a stomach ache or cause your throat to swell. I had none of that, but you let me eat dairy and within 2 hrs I will not be able to move my joints.
Diet's effect on disease is real and serious. Also, by eating healthy, you help your own immune system aid in the killing of the bugs and that reduces your sick time and your need for abx.
As a society, we have forgotten how to eat. Think about what you eat in a day. How much of it is not processed and actually grew that way?
Grew that way means fruits, veggies, meats and nuts. Figs grew that way, fig newtons did not.
Sugar is really bad but Stevia is a very good substitute. I use it for everything I would have used sugar for. It is very sweet and you only use half of what you would use in sugar. Stevia is a ground up herb and therefore not stripped or heavily processed. Just ground up.
Sorry we couldn't tell you to continue as is. At first it is hard giving up those old favorites and figuring out a new way to eat. But soon you will be as comfortable eating this way as you were before.
Good luck. If you could give up the beer you must have good determination. Remember you are doing this to get well.
Luvs
Posted by beachcomber (Member # 5320) on :
LM:
Do your best with the diet. I would say no sugar is the best & first step to take. Do not beat yourself up if you slip on the diet or are out and have to eat what is placed in front of you to be polite. You can't live in a bubble.
I have had systemic yeast. It is horrible - almost as bad as LD for me. I dropped 63 pounds because I could not eat without getting ill.
I am now treating for Candida (again) because I went overseas and had little choice about what I could eat. I also had some wine in the evenings. I sure had fun being a "normal" person. No regrets. Buuuuuut, I now have thrush, diarrhea, weight loss, rash, headaches etc. My stomach & intestines are on fire. I have to take Diflucan & Nystatin and eat veggies, whole grains and protein until things normalize, or at least get back to my LD normal level.
You will figure out how strict you need to be. We are all different. Enjoy life as much as you can. Don't make a big deal out of your diet, especially with friends. Just eat what you can tolerate (trial & error) and say no thanks to what you intuitively feel will make you sicker. Don't obsess. I did obsess for a bit and it drove my family up the wall. I was a pain in the ***** to be around during meals. I have stopped doing that and my life is less stressful.
Hope this helps.
Bc
Posted by AZURE WISH (Member # 804) on :
I sort of follow it.
I dont eat any junk food. And I dont drink anything with sugar in it. Mostly I drink water and tea (no sugar)
But I eat some cereal and some pasta and some fruit. Very little bread.
I have problems maintaining my weight. If I cut out all the carbs (like the pasta and cereal) and/ dairy I would loose alot of weight.
My body just feels better if I eat some fruit....so I do. but I dont drink fruit juices cuz if you look at them alot of them are loaded with sugars with a little bit of juice.
Good probotics should help prevent yeast replacing the good bacteria that the abx kill.
This might be hard to believe but I found it doesnt really take that long being "off" junkfood before my body didnt want it anymore.
Maybe a week and all cravings gone...even for chocolate candy. We got some for halloween....its just sitting there and I really dont even want it.
This is just my expereince though. Just please realize that yeast can make you feel really sick and many of the symptoms can overlap lyme ones so if I can prevent it I try.
Best wishes
Posted by zil (Member # 12048) on :
My LLMD has me taking Nystatin tabs 4 times daily to prevent yeast as well as recommending probiotics and avoiding sugars. As long as I'm on antibiotics, as well as anytime in the future he recommends nystatin at the same time.
I gave up sugar and use stevia to sweeten my ice tea.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by zil: My LLMD has me taking Nystatin tabs 4 times daily to prevent yeast as well as recommending probiotics and avoiding sugars. As long as I'm on antibiotics, as well as anytime in the future he recommends nystatin at the same time.
I gave up sugar and use stevia to sweeten my ice tea.
Ditto to both the nystatin and the stevia!! Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
I agree the diet is very important.
Following a good diet will help you heal faster, in my opinion and a bad diet will keep you from healing - per many LLMD's.
I also agree that we are not perfect and I would think it's impossible not to slip up. And if there are days that you have problems eating - just eat what you can and worry about the diet when your tummy is better.
Getting rid of the beer was a great thing. (hard, huh) I can't believe I haven't had wine or beer in a year. I drank twice since I started treatment and learned my lesson! A week long hangover is no fun.
If you can, eat as much veggies and fruit, leans meats and whole grains only. The sugar, sugar substitutes (except Stevia), white flour and processed foods are the worst. Organic is best.
If you like Pasta try the Gia Russa brand (Whole Wheat) You won't even notice that it's whole wheat. And look in the freezer for Ezekial Bread - probably by the organic stuff. It's Organic and made from sprouted grains. It's better than bread and some people with problem yeast can even eat it. They also make english muffins, hamburger buns and wraps.
Costco is pretty good with their Organic stuff. I buy my organic oatmeal and milk there super cheap.
Every day I have a fruit smoothie with Organic Plain Yogurt and berries (again from Costco - super price but not organic). It's a big treat and legal for me as I don't have yeast. When I eat fruit I try to also have something with it to lower the glycemic level (like a small handful of nuts)
Posted by LocalMan (Member # 11648) on :
Thanks for the replies.
My normal diet is not "bad"...I am a competitive distance runner and seem to avoid junk pretty easlily most of the time anyway.
I rarely eat candy or sweets, cake (?) or other heavy-sugar stuff, but ironically since cutting out beer (and starting mepron) my kids have been amazed to see me have desert after dinner on occasion. So much for THAT bonding experience.
Since I normally work out pretty hard/long outside in a very dry climate I have developed an addiction to Gatorade...my bod needs the electrolytes..so I now need to figure out a non-sugared electrolyte drink.
Otherwise going on a real no yeast/no sugar diet will be a real challenge for me...my wife does most of the food prep and she has 3 young ones to cook for too...I think cooking special for me would flip her out. I wish I could get her to read these posts!
LM
Posted by CaliforniaLyme (Member # 7136) on :
I don't follow any kind of diet in that regard.
With SOME people it matters a GREAT deal. So it is worth it to TRY and see how it matters to your health. A % of our local group watches their diets carefully in this regard but by no means everyone!!!
Remember that many regulars on this board tend to be the longtime chronics so you are not necessarily getting a representative sample of normal Lyme patients. Any board or support group tends to be weighted toward longtime chronics...
Probiotics ARE very important and perhaps being rigorous with them can lend more flexibility with diet in some people. That's my experience in watching people, there are different types- people who are very delicately balancing everything, people who are very lucky and don't worry re yeast (me so far*)!
I DO eat a great many anti-bacterial, healthy herbs from our garden- sage, rosemary, oregano, thyme, sage, sage, rosemary, rosemary... and lots of tomatoes- those are things I consciously EAT MORE of since Lyme because I believe they are good for me- so in that way I have a Lyme diet!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But I also eat cheeseburgers and ice cream sundaes- frequently- Take care, Sincerely, Sarah
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
For sugar free electrolytes, go to the health food store and look for "Emer`gen C" packets. They have one called "Electro Mix".
NO sugar and it tastes fine!
If you'll get some Theralac, you'll be able to cheat on your diet more often... Posted by CaliforniaLyme (Member # 7136) on :
SO many people use Theralac I keep wanting to try it!!!!!!!! It is probably the most popular probiotic out there in LymeLand*_)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by dch1112 (Member # 13148) on :
Lymetoo,
Do you follow any of the Theralac "Dose Programs".
Or simply take one a day? And what time of day?.... with meals?
thanks!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I take one at night when I'm not on abx, two every other day if I AM on abx....just my own routine!
The one during the day, I just make sure it's at least 2 hrs away from any abx.
If I feel yeasty, I'll take 2 a day for awhile and then back down to one.
Posted by LocalMan (Member # 11648) on :
Yeah I'm doing Theralac and Emergen-C (C-version...haven't tired thew electrolyte version...I used to do the glucosomine version till they discontinued it)
LM
Posted by LuLuFlorida (Member # 12066) on :
I also should add that I got systemis yeast after only 3 weeks of IV rocephin. I take about 20 probiotics daily and use multiple different brands. I also take an-anti yeast herbal blend. Some people are jsut more prone to yeast then others, but trust me, no matter how safe you are you can still develop candida.
Posted by LocalMan (Member # 11648) on :
Ok I'm obviously a newbie to the diet realm
So if I want to go hardcore (almost impossible for me but)
No white flour..ie Pizza (family has it all the time) No fruit juices...is unsweetened ok? IS fruit itself supposed to be bad? I eat a ton of bananas... No pasta (except some whole-wheat?) I eat wheaties and granola...no? I don't add sugar to anything but coffee...no?
What about say, oatmeal cookies...if made with "stevia" ok?
And last but not least...is nystatin a prescription anti-yeast drug or ?
I am concerned about the whole yeast issue but don't know how hard-core I can go.
LM
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
LM
Be real hardcore for a couple of weeks to clear out your system. Eat only veggies and low sugar fruits such as blueberries, strawberries, cherries. Don't even eat meat for 2 weeks just to clear your system. (I am not vegetarian)
After 2 weeks start adding back one thing every few days. For instance, wheat for 3 days. See how your body reacts.
After you have cleared your system of your allergic foods, you will see how good it feels to be without the side effects of the food allergies. Then when you do eat an offending food, you will know it because you will be aware of the negative feeling. For my husband, yeast makes his arm start itching and he looks like that commercial where people are scratching at high speed. This will happen within minutes of eating the offending food.
For me, I will get bloated, gassy and sometimes my veins will actually rise up like a mountain on a road map and break out in a red rash along the vein. This usually happens on my arm.
Some foods will not cause that reaction but will cause my joints to stiffen up. This happens within 2 hrs of eating the food and the vein nightmare happens within minutes.
The elimination diet is what you want to look for. It is the cheapest way to find out your allergic foods but also the toughest and slowest. A bloodtest is much easier.
Be aware too that your food allergies can develop and even change at any time. To try to avoid developing allergies, it is said to rotate what you eat to just 1 day out of every four. So you can eat all the pasta you want on Monday but don't have it again until Friday. That is assuming you are not allergic to it. Remember, this is just concerning food allergies. Avoiding yeast to starve candida is another thing altogether. And sugar is just plain bad for us sick people. It suppresses the immune system and feeds the bad guys.
It is a real challenge at first, but once you know what to avoid, your diet can ease up quite a bit. One of my allergies is diary so eating sundaes would put me in a world of pain. Lucky Calif that she doesn't seem to have any problems there.
Luvs
Posted by radfaraf (Member # 11909) on :
If thinking of getting both caprylic acid and grapefruit seed extract for Candida. How much should I be taking of each at a time? A few drops? A teaspoon? I know that I would want to start out with at little as possible at first, but around how much would I work my way up to?
Posted by dch1112 (Member # 13148) on :
I'm still confused on the whole food allergy thing.
Are you saying it is the Lyme that causes food allergies due to a weakened immune system?
Or do most people have food allergies but it doesn't manifest itself until being infected?
thanks so much!
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
Hi again Local Man:
You can find Whole Wheat Pizza at some places, but it's not easy to find. Boboli makes a whole wheat pizza crust. You can buy the reg. for the kids or maybe they would like the whole wheat.
I don't drink fruit juice (due to the sugar) but I really don't eliminate any fruit. I don't have high candida levels after one and a half years into treatment. With bananas I make sure they aren't real ripe.
You can try Stevia in your coffee (coffee/caffeine is also taboo but I have a cup every am - I mean we already gave up beer, right?) A small amount of sugar won't hurt you. Better than asparame for sure.
The oatmeal cookies with whole wheat bread and stevia I think sound great.
I think (my opinion and I'm not a doctor) that the folks that don't keep a good diet will take longer to heal. Regardless of whether or not it makes you feel bad it "feeds" the Lyme and we want to kill the Lyme.
Having said all this I did have a brownie yesterday. You can't be perfect everyday.
You sound like you are going to do fine.
Hang in there.
Molly
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by LocalMan:
No white flour..ie Pizza (family has it all the time) right
No fruit juices...is unsweetened ok? Read the label...probably not OK
IS fruit itself supposed to be bad? I eat a ton of bananas... not good .. granny smith apples are OK
No pasta (except some whole-wheat?) and not too much of it
I eat wheaties and granola...no? not good ..
I don't add sugar to anything but coffee...no? stevia
What about say, oatmeal cookies...if made with "stevia" ok? probably
And last but not least...is nystatin a prescription anti-yeast drug or ? kills yeast
DIET, DIET, DIET is the key. Then, be sure to follow the 5 step plan outlined below. It was developed by my naturopath. It works.
"Successful control and elminiation of a Candida Albicans overgrowth requires a multifaceted program as described below. Failure to follow ALL the steps simultaneously will result in slow progress and will lengthen healing time significantly. The program should be tailored to the individual and must balance the need to eliminate the Candida and deprive it of its food source while insuring proper nutrition for the individual."
Five Steps to Candida Elimination:
1. You must starve it into submission by eliminating its food source.
2. You must kill it with anti-fungal herbs and supplements. [e.g....garlic, onion, caprylic acid, Pau D'Arco capsules or tea, clove, grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, tea tree oil, Echinacea, Goldenseal, black walnut, MSM, barberry root, uva ursi, neem leaf, biotin]
3. You must reestablish the proper balance and quantity of probiotic bacteria in the digestive tract. [...multi-strain lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidus capsules with FOS should be taken between meals to maximize repopulation of the digestive tract by beneficial bacteria.]
4. You must reestablish proper levels of all B vitamins (yeast free) and utilize other immune enhancing supplements to boost immune system function. [e.g ... B complex vitamins (yeast free), biotin, beta 1-3 glucan, colostrum, maitake mushroom, vitamins A, C, E, zinc and selenium]
5. You must cleanse and heal the digestive tract to promote proper elimination of toxins and Candida and assimilation of nutrients. [e.g...chlorophyll, MSM, omega 3 fatty acids found in flax seed and salmon oils, GLA found in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils. Pantothenic acid, digestive enzymes between meals] lyme disease in Europe is http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EuroLyme/ Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
Here is how the doctors have explained food allergies (sensitivities actually) to me:
Your gut gets damaged by either bugs, abx, stress and/or poor diet. Now partially digested foods enter the bloodstream where they are seen as foreign invaders. The pain it manifests is dependent upon how your body deals with it. For me, I get joint pain and swelling. Also gas and bloat.
Food sensitivities are not for life although food allergies are. Celiac disease (gluten intolerence) can develop at anytime and is permanent, so those of us who are sick should eat gluten (wheat, rye, barley & oats) sparingly if at all.
Once you heal your gut, then lots of other symptoms including food sensitivities will disappear. Rotating foods every 4 days is a great way to avoid developing allergies. We develop sensitivities to our favorite foods because we eat them daily. Food allergies are the ones where you have fullblown swelling and other severe reactions immediately following eating the offending food and this type of allergy is for life.
This is my understanding of food sensitivity such as most of us suffer here.
Luvs
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
Hey LM and others,
Check out Cave's post titled Dr B's excerise recommendations. Here is a quote about diet.
Diet also plays an important role. This is the time for the very best of health habits. I recommend light, low fat food, with high quality nutritional value, absolute abstention from alcohol, elimination of caffeine, a decrease in sugar and starch intake, and if applicable, a serious committent to weight loss. Smoking is completely out!!!
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