I Have had rochephine with very good results (but short lived). Now, I have a probably silly question: is it possible to have good results with Rocephine and zero with bicillin? are they not from the same family?
thank you
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
well, if you tell yourself you're going to have zero results, then yes, you probably will.
although they are in the same family of abx, they work different (in a synergistic fashion)
so, IMHO, i do believe you might see some results from bicillin that you did not see from rocephin.
every abx has a window of opportunity on the body when treating Bb, once wht windwo is over, its much less effective.
if you notice, you "herx" or your die off is increased intensely when you begin an abx (this is the experience of most people)
as time wears on, the die off either dies down and your sx return (which is generally confused as the "herx finally happening" or something different altogether.
hope it works out for you.
best of luck
humbly
derek
Posted by listenswithcare (Member # 10719) on :
For me, the bicillin is a bit slower to work out. Rocephin was more in-my-face and bicillin is a bit gentler. I think if I didn't go on bicillin after the Rocephin, I would have relapsed big time! I could feel some of my symptoms coming back, but over time, the Bicillin seems to be addressing these (but it took 2-3 months).
Robin
Posted by ldfighter (Member # 9405) on :
They are related but rocephin seems much more effective. Here's something interesting (from IDSA/AAN authors, years ago):
Luft BJ, Volkman DJ, Halperin JJ, Dattwyler RJ. New chemotherapeutic approaches in the treatment of Lyme borreliosis. Ann NY Acad Sci. 1988;539:352-61.
1. It was demonstrated that while B. burgdorferi may be sensitive to relatively small concentrations of penicillin and ceftriaxone, the organism is killed slowly. This implies that, as in syphilis, prolonged blood levels of these drugs may be necessary in order to ensure cure.
In contrast, the activity of tetracycline is more rapid in its action but is more dependent on drug concentration achieved. Unfortunately, the MIC and MBC for some strains are at or above the peak level achieved under optimal conditions.
2. Increasing the concentrations of penicillin or ceftriaxone above the MIC for the organism has little effect on the rate of killing. In contrast, the killing by tetracycline can be augmented by increasing concentrations of the drug.
3. Ceftriaxone is more active than penicillin, as measured by MIC, against the five strains of B. burgdorferi tested.
4. Ceftriaxone was efficacious in the treatment of Lyme borreliosis, which was recalcitrant to penicillin therapy. In a randomized trial comparing ceftriaxone to high-dose penicillin therapy, ceftriaxone was significantly more efficacious than penicillin in the treatment of the late complications of Lyme borreliosis.
PMID: 3056203
Posted by David95928 (Member # 3521) on :
I've not used Rocephin for Lyme but have been on Bicillin for a long time. However, from following this board for almost five years, I would say that Rocephin provides fairly rapid initial improvement but needs to be followed with something else. Bicillin is great for long-term improvement and stability.
Posted by sfcharm (Member # 9392) on :
Having done bicillin LA for six full months a a dose of 4.8 million units a week I can say I felt quite stable with all of my neuro symptoms. They did however not dissapear.
I'm now just starting my sixth month of Rocephin IV and feel that it is just starting to make a huge difference in my remaining neuro symptoms.
I still notice some myoclonus jerks from time to time but nothing like I experienced before.
I personally made great strides with bicillin at the large dose and am now seeing even greater ones with the Rocephin.
Barb
Posted by tosho (Member # 10191) on :
up
Posted by tdtid (Member # 10276) on :
Being on the Rocephin now, (been on 3 months so far) and will be atleast until my next appointment in 6 weeks, I do know I'll be getting off or changing soon.
With so much talk about relapsing after getting off the Rocephin, is there something that has had higher percentages of success by moving to next?
Cathy
Posted by Rianna (Member # 11038) on :
I have done both and for me they are TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
Herx's are very hard on Bicillin and it brought out my co-ifections but the physical gain was good.
Rocephin herx is all neuro so thats good too
In my personal opinion you should do both if you need IV as although they state they give the same effects they did not for me, they were totally different.
Without a doubt I will soon be adding Bicillin to my Rocephin as soon as my LLMD has finished treating my co-infections and will also add a macrolide and then a cyst buster - In fact I am of the opinion that I will now throw the kitchen sink at it to get better
Rianna
Posted by keltyl (Member # 14050) on :
I am doing 3 bicillin shots a week (for about 3 mos). Also on zith, plaq, and mepron. I saw a good change when I first started, but have gone back to the same fatigue. My LLMD did tell me he thought bicillin was the next best thing to rocephin. (????)
Posted by sfcharm (Member # 9392) on :
Having just attended the Lyme conferences out here in San Francisco I got a chance to attend a break out session with Dr. H from New York and Dr. B (retired).
Both were awesome. Dr. B said if he ever goes back to treating patients with lyme he would prescribe more Rocephin and for longer periods of time.
Dr. H said if he could pick only one regimen for treating lyme it would be: "bicillin LA, plaquenil and biaxin".
I've done both and can't say enough about either. They were both what I needed to be where I am today.
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