read this. I am on this for 2 days and I feel WAY more herx then ever..but less painful herxing but EVERYwhere including my brain. people why waste your time with high priced drugs and super high doses when rox and batrim at easy to deal with dosing kills lyme. quickly. I will bet the supost failures here or wherever are due to co infections. kill the lyme first, then look for cos.
Roxithromycinin the treatment of Lyme disease--update and perspectives.Gasser R, Wendelin I, Reisinger E, Bergloff J, Feigl B, Schafhalter I, Eber B, Grisold M, Klein W. Klinische Physiologie, Medizinische Universitatsklinik Graz, Austria.
Spirochaetal infections have been successfully treated with penicillin; more recently, erythromycin has been used in cases with known penicillin allergy.
The discovery of the spirochaete Borrelia burgdorferi and the elaboration of a new generation of macrolides with properties that differ from older macrolides have led to new ways of treating spirochaetal disease with these compounds.
This paper presents data on the in vitro and in vivo efficacy of a combination of roxithromycin and co-trimoxazole against B. burgdorferi. In vitro (checkerboard technique; B. burgdorferi strain B31; modified BSK II medium) it was found that while roxithromycin showed excellent efficacy against B. burgdorferi (MIC 0.031 mg/l), co-trimoxazole had no effect.
However, the combination of both chemotherapeutics led to a minor synergistic effect, decreasing the MIC for roxithromycin by one dilution step at concentrations of co-trimoxazole from 256 to 8 mg/l. In addition, a clearly reduced growth of microorganisms was seen at concentrations of roxithromycin as low as 0.015 mg/l in combination with 256 to 4 mg/l co-trimoxazole, when compared to the positive controls. Most interestingly, however, the motility of B. burgdorferi was markedly reduced even when the two drugs were combined at very low concentrations.
In an in vivo, non-randomised, open, prospective pilot study it was found that of 17 patients with confirmed late Lyme borreliosis (stage II/III), treated with combined roxithromycin (300 mg b.i.d.) and co-trimoxazole for 5 weeks, 13 (76%) recovered completely by the end of treatment, and four continued to have symptoms on follow-up at 6 and 12 months. This success rate is similar to that seen with i.v. penicillin and ceftriaxone. It appears that the reduced motility of B. burgdorferi makes the pathogen more accessible to the immune system. offshore-pharma.com/cat--Macrolide--Macrolide.html PMID: 7782115 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
What are your dosing numbers--milligrams and times per day. Thanks.
Posted by Sojourner (Member # 9424) on :
My husband is currently on Roxy/bactrim ds and plaquenil combo. The week four herx has been intense with a lot of pain. There has been a lot of improvement too.
He takes 600mgs roxy per day.
I agree its a great drug. But I don't think there is a one drug fits all solution. What works for some doesn't for others. It's really trial and error.
Posted by CaliforniaLyme (Member # 7136) on :
Yes- GREAT choice James- Bactrim is great stuff!
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
the pinging has stopped now, but I feel something I never felt before. It feels like my entire CNS including my brain is shaking. I NEVER felt this on the other drugs. Anyone relate to that? BTW, its been going on for hours..I mean I am shaking a bit too...wow nerve damage is showing its face..i think that means the body is picking up on the prob and trying to heal.omgosh feels like my head a vibrating and my fingers are shaking. I WAS super tired for the past 5 weeks (1st time in the lyme thing...35 year infection and a reinfect and I think baba 5 years ago) Anyway is shaking a good sign...it feels like body trying to heal...
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
This is what prompted gasser to do the study, I Would take the bactrim first..I think it disables the bug preventing it from going into cyst form. (well...as gasser says) 600mg roxy and um.320/1600 bactrim..
I think thats DS 2 x a day
THE LANCET, VOL. 336, (NOV 10, 1990) p. 1189f.
Oral treatment of late borreliosis with roxithromycin plus co-trimoxazole
SIR, - Early, but not late, Lyme borreliosis has been successfully treated with oral antibiotics such as penicillins, erythromycin, and tetracycline. The possibility of an oral treatement is desirable, especially in view of the great difficulties that arise with long-lasting intravenous treatment in third-world countries.(1, 2) Various workers have shown relapses and failure of treatment in late Lyme borreliosis(adrodermatitits chronica atrophicans, arthritis, neuroborreliosis) even with high doses of intravenous penicillin or ceftriaxone. (2, 3) Treatment that is both orally applicable and effective is certainly needed.(2) Co-trimoxazole is a powerful antibiotic combination to which many microorganisms respond, including the spirochaete Treponema pallidum. Furthermore, it has been show that the new macrolides(such as roxithromycin) show a remarkable antimicrobial activity angaint B burgdorferi.(4,5) It is noteworthy that the blood/brain barrier is highly permeable to roxithromycin. A 30-year-old man infected with B burgdorferi 7 years ago was successfully treated with a combination of roxithromycin(300 mg twice daily) and trimethoprim/sulphamethoxazole(320 mg/1600 mg twice daily) after both intraveous penicillin(20 million IU daily ober 3 weeks) and later ceftriaxone 2 g twice daily for 3 weeks) had failed (figure {not included} ). Both intravenous penicillin and ceftriaxone reduced the symptoms transiently, while IgG remained positive. However, shortly after a 3-week course of roxithromycin/co-trimoxazole all symptoms disappeared and a recent assessment of IgG revealed a negative titre. The recovery of the patient's neurological disorders was strikingly rapid, possibly because of the high permeability of the blood/brain barrier to roxithromycin. Thus, albeit in only 1 patient, we have shown successful oral treatment of late Lyme borreliosis with a combination of roxithromycin and co-trimoxazole.
Robert Gasser, University Laboratory of Physiology, Osford OX1 3 PT, UK
Johann Dusleag, University Medical Clinic, Graz, Austria
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
I was told roxy is the ONLY marmaid that crosses BBB thats why 5 weeks killed it.
Posted by micul (Member # 6314) on :
Hey James, what's a marmaid?.....Is it kinda like a mermaid? Maybe you were thinking macrolide?
There was a thread on this just a few days ago. Gabrielle from Germany said that the actual results are poor....no better than with other macrolides.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
okay, so your going to believe heresay over a actual study that was done in a university setting?
Whats your buddies numbers...show his controls...etc..
roxy is the only one that readily crosses the BBB... But I also rotate in flagyl and daily amantadin (quineine like drug)
Posted by micul (Member # 6314) on :
Believe the numbers? Those are test numbers, and we all know that actual experiences over time never seem to pan out like the studies show.
The Gasser study was done in 1995....don't you think that if it worked like the small study says that it should, that every LLMD would have this combo in operation? Not to mention word of mouth between Lymies.
If the study is correct, you shouldn't have to be adding Flagyl or any of the other drugs that you are using to it either....you are changing the rules by doing this. Is it because you don't believe that it is enough by itself?
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
well def dif strains etc..co infections...various condition of the persons taking the pills. etc. The study never said it prevents them from converting into cysts. So..I am going to rotate in flagyl. The study was only done on 17 persons...so...not like major for sure, but def more then...oh...my friend tried it it didnt work. But common sense tells u that you NEED to get into the brain and the other related drugs dont get in there as good as roxy does.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
my point was to get a discussion going about the people who HAVE used this treatment drug. Alot of the common drugs used dont appear to cross the BBB. And it just dont make alot of sense that you have to dump TONS of high dose abx take them for like 6 months or longer and STILL not be cured. There has to be a way around this. I dont know if its worth anything but I noted my pings changed from very painful to barely painful but more of them when I started the roxy. And def opened up the brain I could feel it right away. I picture zithermax exploding the buggers, while roxy and bactrim make them paralized then gently kill them...thus releasaing less nerotoxins perhaps in the process? I swear I feel more activity then before..but much less pain.
Posted by Gabrielle (Member # 5329) on :
It is a common treatment protocol for Lyme here in Germany - our docs also read this publication.
I did this combo twice for 6 weeks each. It did nothing for me!
Others had nice improvements on it but in all the 4 years that I'm writing in the German Lyme forum I never heard of anyone been cured with it in 5 weeks. Actually, I don't know anyone who got cured by it even with longer treatment- but of course, I cannot know everybody. And maybe the cured ones never cared to report back?
Gasser says that the efficacy of Roxy + Bactrim can be compared with that of Ceftriaxone and penicillin. I want to add that I also don't know many chronic Lymies who have been cured with 5 weeks of Cef or penicillin. So, Gasser is probably right that the efficacy is the same...
I knew one Austrian woman who saw Prof. G. himself - it didn't cure her - she died of Lyme, etc. some time ago!
Still, it might be a very good combination for some of us - all depending on the mix of coinfections one has.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that it works for you - please report back.
Gabrielle
[ 21. December 2007, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: Gabrielle ]
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
Happy for you but that study was done in 1: Infection. 1995;23 Suppl 1:S39-43 Also in Austria . I have done biaxin by itself and with other abx's and also with Mepron & bactrim. And I have done them some stints 6 months at a time. Sorry its not a cure all which in time you will see unfortunatly. Good luck though. I will say this biaxin ,mepron and bactrim just about did me in had to drop after 3.5 months the mepron had drug induced fevers.
Oh and heres some good news but not so for lymies because immune systems are effected.
"When taken before a meal, roxithromycin is very rapidly absorbed, and diffused into most tissues and phagocytes. Due to the high concentration in phagocytes ((which very few lymies have)), roxithromycin is actively transported to the site of infection. During active phagocytosis, large concentrations of roxithromycin are released." Bummer
Mechanism of action Roxithromycin prevents bacteria from growing, by interfering with their protein synthesis. Roxithromycin binds to the subunit 50S of the bacterial ribosome, and thus inhibits the translocation of peptides. Roxithromycin has similar antimicrobial spectrum as erythromycin, but is more effective against certain gram-negative bacteria, particularly Legionella pneumophila. With that said I would still try Roxy and Bactrim together
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
A connection
Googled Roxithromycin-RL� - GlaxoSmithKline AustraliaRoxithromycin-RL is used to treat various infections caused by bacteria. For example: Acute pharyngitis (sore throat and discomfort when swallowing) ... www.gsk.com.au/products_prescription-medicines_detail.aspx?view=383 - 27k -
I'm allergic to sulfas, so can't do Bactrim...even sulfites in red wine make me start wheezing....
I wonder if I could do it by taking allergy pills continuously along w/the abx?
Posted by Gabrielle (Member # 5329) on :
BTW, James,
How are you doing? What was the outcome of your try with Roxy?
Gabrielle
Posted by Glassgal (Member # 668) on :
I took this combination in the 90s for a few months and it didn't cure me.
Ellen
Posted by Geneal (Member # 10375) on :
I don't understand the 3 week cure.
If bb is one of the slowest bacteria to replicate (ie once every 30 days)
Then how could 3 weeks do the job.
There are other drugs that cross the bbb.
Mino is one example. Yet there is no 3 week "cure" with mino.
I (believe) that is why if you are only treating Lyme,
It would be a minimum of 18 months to completely cover every replication cycle.
That is what I've read anyways.
Of course, this is just my rudimentary thinking.
I hope this works for you.....and you get well soon.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posted by adamm (Member # 11910) on :
That's just 18 months to clear the forms with cell walls.
After those are gone, there are still cysts, as well as L-forms (about
which you can do
nothing.)
Posted by bv (Member # 9578) on :
The original post is bogus. The study cited is 14 years old & subsequent studies say Roxy not effective against LD.
Posted by migs (Member # 16496) on :
3 weeks is optimistic but Roxithromycin does seem to have some literature behind it in fighting Lyme.
bv, What sources did you find stating it is NOT effective?
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