anyone push through with regular use and find relief of their pain in the long run?
thanks
derek
[ 31. December 2007, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: djf2005 ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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What is the brand of your sauna ?
Maybe decrease the time or frequency, be sure to add electrolytes and just the right amount of water ?
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Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
my sauna is a basic infrared sauna.
it has 5 ceramic heaters.
i did replace elctrolyes and always drink lots of water.
my thoughts are: something is being irritated from it.
i know it moves toxins around, and ****es borrelia off...
but, also, i have bartonella (or think so) from some of my severe sx, and babesia (although i think bartonella is the more prominent) and i wonder, what role does the sauna play in the BLO mechanism? (and babesiosis for that much?)
not to mention ALL the other stuff i have that is undx because of the complete abscence of reliable testing for lyme and any related illnesses.
i am not complaining, just wondering aloud.
so many difficult questions.
mainly i notice when i start sauna therapy in conjunction with my protocol that my upper body sx flare intensely, mainly severe burning shoulder blade pain, neck, and pressure in head from increased csf (i am guessing still dont know on that either..)
anyone who can provide any insight into any of this is more than welcome, please.
i am very interested in the answer to the increased csf pressure. many of us suffer with it yet we still dont know why? i dont understand.
my thoughts are maybe it (whatever bacteria, lyme, bart, babs, etc) actually invades and increases the csf pressure from inflaming the fluid itself)
has anyone who experiences regular head pressure feelings etc used DIAMOX and gotten any relief from it?
thanks again, and please, share so we can all heal
we have the resources we have the tools and the info, its like a puzzle, and we need to help one another put each other's puzzles together..
humbly,
derek
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I was going to the sauna about once a week.
I was using a very intense Korean sauna place that has several types of saunas along with a steam room & hot tubs.
My pain level got alot worse.
I thought it was the abx so I stopped them.
It may have been the sauna.
I have a theory that the sauna actually kills the spirochetes.
I have no idea if it's true, though.
I ordered some Nanotec Chitosan.
I'm waiting for it to arrive before I try the sauna again.
I think you really need to have something to detox from the spirochetes dying & the neurotoxins they release if you raise your body temperature.
Dr. B. from ILIADS has stated that raising the body temperature through exercise can "cure" Lyme - so, I figure the same is true via the sauna.
This is all just my own theories, though.
Good luck!
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
perhaps you are moving the toxins toward your head since you do sweat in the scalp area.
Posted by BOEJR (Member # 1734) on :
Hi Derek,
I hope that you are not over using the sauna, It can stimulate viral infections...
Happy New Year to all,
warmly,
Julia
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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I sent you a PM.
I was not sure if your reply "my sauna is a basic infrared sauna" says the brand is "basic"
there is one brand of Sauna that has had toxic glue exposed. A friend of mine had that problem and they would not take it back. I saw the plywood. Several others have had trouble, too.
Apparently not all the units had the cheap, bad wood, but many did.
excerpt: about High Tech Health saunas. I have never used one myself but I personally know more than a few multiple chemical sensitivity folks who bought a High Tech Health sauna and couldn't use it because they got sicker from the outgassing of formaldehyde (apparently some plywood or fiberboard or something behind the poplar) and possibly the glue.
cont'd at link
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Posted by ICEiam (Member # 7519) on :
I have a friend that swears that the Sauna and hot tub have helped her and she does both a few times a week.
My daugher took Diamox, didn't do a thing for her, but then, remember everyone is different.
Nothing at all has helped her severe head pain. It came on about a year ago and it never goes away. She has taken everything known to man trying to even take the edge off.
LLMD sent her to a pain center and they have her on Oxy and it doens't even take the pain away. The pain center has tried several different things also.
If anyone has any out of the ordinary ideas on how to help her head please let me/us know. I know lots of people here have the same problem.
Happy New Year
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
ICEY - I'm not sure if you mean pain in the head area or migraines...
How old is your daughter?
I tried bio-identical hormone replacement therapy & it really reduced the number of migraines I got. Could your daughter have any issues with hormone imbalance?
Oxycontin never helped my headaches.
I had a prescription for Relpax but it's expensive & Excedrin Migraine actually worked better for me.
Just my 2 cents...
Posted by amkdiaries (Member # 7035) on :
I was just about to spend $3000.00 on one but not if I am going to get worse. I know some people say they have gotten better but ir is interesting that on Saturday I used one for 20 minutes and on Monday my neuropathy was terrible.
Oh no another dead end!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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amkdiaries - can you check the brand of sauna agst the previous note above about some bad models from High Tech Health ?
was it infrared or a regular sauna. Infrared is less stressful if kept at lower temps than regular saunas. I think too high a temp can cause a lot of trouble for some people. Infrared is meant to be a lower heat causing far less stress on the heart.
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Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
In the beginning I would get worse symptoms from the FIR sauna. I would generally need to lie down afterward.
Now, I don't have that effect. I have used the sauna almost daily for 30 minutes, though as I've gotten busier because I feel better, I don't do it quite as often, but still several times per week.
My LLMD recommends using it daily .... he was happy to hear I had one, and after he knew, he said to use it daily.
My theory is that it both mobilizes toxins and causes some bacteria to die off because of increased body temperature. I took my temp. about an hour afterward once and it was elevated to 99 degrees.
Yes, they make you feel worse at first, but just like abx make you feel worse .... I think in the end, they will help with progress. If you can get rid of toxins through your skin, there will be fewer that go through your liver and kidneys.
You might bring it up to you LLMD to see what his theory is on why they make you feel worse. If you do, let me know, I'm curious .... I have an appt. next week, I'll try to remember to ask.
Mine is a Sunlight Sauna ... no glue.
Posted by jblral (Member # 8836) on :
My daughter's naturopath suggested that she NOT use the fir-sauna at this time (altho the ND recommends it to many people.) She says my daughter's body has difficulty detoxifying, and until the detox pathways can be opened up, using the sauna would not be good for her. This disease is so complex!
Posted by diana (Member # 7466) on :
Julia,
I have never heard that sauna treatments can stimulate viral infections..can you provide any additional information on this?
thanks,
Diana
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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this is not exactly what you asked for but if the sauna is a regular hot sauna and a person has a virus, perhaps the same reactions as exercise with a virus could make it worse.
It may depend on the heart rate and amount of exertion.
Just a thought. But the far infrared saunas are to be used at much lower temps.
It would be nice to see more about that if infrared is a problem with a virus.
EXCERPT:
when mice infected with Coxsackie B3 were forced to swim in a warm pool, the virulence of the virus was drastically augmented.
In fact, viral replication was augmented 530 times. This did horrendous things to the animals' hearts. We all know that to play squash with the flu can lead to heart attacks. Much the same danger can be courted by undertaking hard exercise with M.E. (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome)
The sauna I want to buy is an infrared sauna. I am only looking at brands that offer lifetime warranties and a trial period whereby you can return it within 30 days for a refund.
Also the ones I am looking at say they do not use toxic glues or veneers. I assume this is in writing.
The infrared waves are supposed to penetrate fat tissue and release toxins unlike the heat saunas found in most gyms. I seem to have a problem detoxing so I hope it helps.
Posted by Elizabeth in MN (Member # 8466) on :
My LLMD recommends using any kind of heat (including hot baths), since heat can kill spirochetes. She specifically recommends FIR because it makes you sweat fat, not saline sweat. According to her, neurotoxins get sweated out in fat, not saline.
So, as I understand it, FIR kills Spirochetes and decreases neurotoxins.
I find that, overall, FIR helps significantly with pain, and I do not seem to herx. But when you kill Spirochetes, you may herx, so be prepared for that.
I also had a response to this contribution by Keebler:
excerpt: about High Tech Health saunas. I have never used one myself but I personally know more than a few multiple chemical sensitivity folks who bought a High Tech Health sauna and couldn't use it because they got sicker from the outgassing of formaldehyde (apparently some plywood or fiberboard or something behind the poplar) and possibly the glue.
I purchased a High Tech Health sauna a year ago based on the recommendation of my naturopathic dentist and one of my LLMDs. I also did tons of my own research. I have never heard of this controversy before.
When I searched other messages in the thread quoted above, I saw that there were attempts by the company to explain that the information represented in this email was incorrect. They offered to show the poster personally that this was so.
When I searched that site more completely, I found that other families were happy with High Tech Health saunas. And there were some who were definitely not happy. I am perfectly satisfied with my High Tech Health FIR sauna, and don't see any evidence of glue or plywood or anything toxic.
If you're looking to invest in a FIR sauna, I suggest you do all the research you can, try to decide who you can believe, and find the best company and product for you and your family.
Good luck!
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
thanks to everyone for their responses.
my sauna has no toxic glues and materials and is the real deal.
imo i am not over treating, as i was doing 1-2 20 min sessions a week.
it seems it is more powerful (at least for me) that i had previously realized. due to the increased pain levels and everything else i am currently dealing with, i will be taking a a breka from it, again.
once i get back to a baseline with a lower level of pain, and and am able to figure out what is causing that pain (spesifically the sauna making it worse) ill then begin once more.
my viral panel is due back in any day julia, ill let you all know what i have active and what not.
hes testing the whole panel, so it will be interesting to see.
thanks again, hope you all had a good new year
derek
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
sorry i missed some of your replies-
iceIam- i spoke w dr c about diamox, he said until we can figure out what is causing the pressure, over medicating or using diamox isnt going to work, and, could prove to be dangerous. i hope your daughter finds relief soon. for me, i actually tie a bandana or a scarf around my forehead tightly, and, suprisingly, it provides immense relief. she may want to try that.
and EVERYBODY- please dont get the wrong idea here... my dr does NOT think its a bad conjunctive therapy, he thinks its GREAT. just too much for me right now. like i said, once i am back to a better baseline w a little less pain, I FULLY INTEND to use it again and get back to 3x week. imho, sweating can not be bad, its a great way to mobilize toxins as many of us including me cannot do aerobics... so please, dont misunderstand me. i think FIR sauna is great, and i hope i would reccomend it to anyone! thanks again guys!
happy new year!
derek
ps- ice, i am getting a SPECT scan this week in an effort top try to dx the head pressure feeling. my dr is really a man i greatly trust and respect, and his thoughts are this: its either direct brain inflamtion, increased csf pressure from neurotoxins, or actual mengeal inflamtion (the lining between the brain and scalp) these are just theories, but like i said, hopefully, with the spect scan, we will be better able to figure out what is causing it. it is by far the worst lyme sx and i hate it with a passion. learning to live with it is like living with an ox on your head
i will be sure to post my SPECT scan results and what my dr says. he seemed confident that once the results were in he'd have a solution to any of the possible reasons (such as increased csf, do a lumbar drain....NO NO, but yes, it may be the only way to get it down temporarily if that is the case....
please all of you PM me as it is easier for me to keep up with reposnes, questions that way.
my email is also added on my tag.
derek
Posted by HamDune (Member # 14139) on :
Any updates on FIR use from Derek or anyone else?
How have we all been responding to FIR sauna therapy?
I have Lyme and Bartonella and can personally say that so far (early into FIRS use) I am feeling worse and experiencing more fatigue and cognitive disturbances.
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
still am unable to use it unfortunately...
hope to be able to someday
makes nerve pain in back and shoulders unbearable, so for the time being its just sitting.
im actually going to sell it i think..
anyone in NE pa want a 1000$ FIR sauna for 500 bucks?
cheers
derek
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
FIR looks to allow the release of acetylcholine...which can cause a headache.
Our brain needs glucose too...lots...ongoing. Looks like FIR impacts glucose too in a round about way.
In a pinch, the brain can use ketones.
The ketogenic diet - Johns Hopkins - cured a child who had nonstop seizures. This real life story was into a movie, "First Do No Harm" with Meryl Streep as the mom.
Here's a good one...to rid some headaches...they give the botulism toxin which
inhibits acetylcholine release.
The anti-toxin to botulism is trivalent (3 "charges"). I think someday we will find we need something "trivalent" also to counter Bb.
"Delta" form of something...PKCD? (Bb has a "PKC inhibitor"...I think it might be the delta form of that enzyme.)
BTW...Bb can NOT break down acetylcholine. Levels of acetylcholine are directly related to "intelligence". The # of working receptors are key...we make more receptors as we "learn".
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
I was in my sunlight sauna yestrday fro 30 minutes.
My right side of my head and my right eye got blurry.It reminded me exactly the severe migranes -I thought I had 12 years ago.
It was exactly the pain and I know now was a herx.
I will see what is going to happen in the future .
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
During use of Sauna, or any exercise, anything, that stimulates circulation, as a good sauna does, heavy metals are being moved and often they do not all exit through sweat and breath, but also move upward, into the head/brain region. They cross our blood brain barrier easily, because most of us have a damaged one.
If you live on this earth and have not come from Mars yesterday, you are carrying heavy metals in the body.
I was not permitted to use a sauna during the early years of eliminating Lyme. Only once I had detoxed heavy metals and eliminated Lyme with other means, was it recommended to me to use our sauna.
I have posted many times on this subject here. Just do a search with my name and sauna.
Further, if you do use a sauna, once you are further along in general detox, you need to use mop-up/binding agents to bind the toxins, all neurotoxins, to prevent recirculation and toxin resettling in the body. They will keep going around and around as in a merry-go-round unless you catch them and move them out.
Agents: chlorella, apple pectin, cholestyramine if you can tolerate it, biositosterol, charcoal for brief periods only, etc. Do a search here. There are numerous posts on this subject also.
Good luck.
P.S. I am well and have been for many years now. Sauna keeps me now from accumulating daily exposure of environmental toxins.
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