Any ideas? Is there such a thing? I tried Nanotek Chitosan which is supposed to be one of the best and had a very bad experience though some others have benefited from it. Chlorella I cant take, gives me bad pains. What about zeolite? Apple pectin? Betasito.. something?
Thankx!
Posted by DakotasMom01 (Member # 14141) on :
Does anyone know? I would like to learn about this. Esp about the pectin. Thanks
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
My suggestion would be garlic and vitamin C.
No matter what doctor I talk to, whether lyme literate or not; whether intergrative or not, they always say garlic is a great chelator. It is antibacterial, antifungal, antiviral and a chelator. You can't overdose on it although you can keep your friends at bay.
Supposedly, the garlic that does not make you stink also is not effective medicinally.
I use fresh garlic. You can mince it and gulp down a couple cloves with water just like taking pills. That way you barely taste it. Or, you can juice it with other fresh veggies like carrots and celery.
It is said that eating fresh parsley after garlic kills the smell. So I do this and I add parsley to my juices. Immediately after I juice, I do reek of garlic per my husband but the odor goes away within 20 mins. Swallowing fresh minced garlic followed by chewing on a few sprigs of parsley seems to stop the odor before it begins.
I have asked every friend, family member and doctor if I smell of garlic and they all assure me I do not.
I personally feel there is more benefit to fresh garlic than to anything processed in a pill form. Just my personal feeling.
Vit C is excellent for so many things. It is said that a sick person can take and tolerate way more Vit C than a healthy person. You know when you have hit your tolerance level by your bowel movements. If you experience diarrhea, you have exceeded your appropriate limit. Back up to the mg you took just before diarrhea.
For me, I have taken as much as 6000mg daily without bowel intolerance. I don't know what my limit is but 6000mg was all I could seem to take in a day because I had to keep it away from chlorella. I'm no longer taking the chlorella.
Currently I am taking 2000mg Vit C and 2 to 3 cloves garlic daily and doing fine.
Luvs
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
Note: Vit C and garlic are not ALL I am doing. My last sentence was misleading. Sorry about that.
Posted by DakotasMom01 (Member # 14141) on :
Thank you Luvs!! I am taking 2000 mgs of Vit c now.I Was worried abt going higher, without more of a detox.
I will get some clove garlic and parsley today.I use alot of jarred mince garlic, but have not tried it as you suggested. Thanks again
Take care, dakotasmom
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
From what I have read, Vit C helps the body detox.
Some other really simple methods I use (because adequate detoxing is something my body struggles with)
1-deep breathing-yoga style-for 20 mins daily.
2-Rebounding-excellent for moving lymph glands and sinuses. I practice the deep breathing at the same time. A lot of toxins are removed by the lungs and the lymph glands.
3-Hot bath with Epsom Salts and Apple Cider Vinegar.
4-Drinks lots of water and eat plenty of veggies to keep the bladder and bowels moving.
At one time, my doctor was giving me bi-weekly IV's of glutathione which supports the liver and aids in detox. I did that for about a year. At the time I was so toxic I couldn't take an Epsom Salt bath without suffering horrific joint pain for the next 24 to 48 hrs. Kept me bedridden.
So at one time I was horribly toxic. Today I seem to be fine but practice the above to make sure I stay that way.
I would love to get an infared sauna too but I'm a little afraid of having a heart attack from it. I don't know why I have this fear.
Sweating is another really good detox.
Luvs
Posted by Peacesoul (Member # 13709) on :
What type of Vit C are you all taking? Just the dried pill form (citric Acid) or ester c form?
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
It's possible that garlic and Vit C can remove biotoxins but there is no evidence that it does to my knowledge.
I was on 2-4 grams of Vit C per day for years and based on my response to using cholestyramine as a binder, I'd say Vit C did little to nothing for binding this type of toxin. Also, my tests showed that my cells were full of debri which indicates that I had not been detoxing dead bug debri very well.
Biotoxins are a specific type of toxin that seem to require specific removal agents. Chelating the toxins is one thing but you need something to bind them and help get them out of the body so I don't know if the fact that garlic is a good chelator is going to solve the problem.
You may want to contact Dr. S. via his website to see if he has any suggestions. You might be able to get a response via submitting it as a question to the blog. http://www.biotoxin.info/contact_us
Besides cholestyramine, I've heard these may accomplish something similar but I have no way of knowing if they do or not. Beta-sitosterol Chlorrela NanoTek Chitosan modified citrus pectin
Terry
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Carob powder and also Sarsaparilla can help remove endotoxins.
I need to find the reference to Carob, but many references to Sarsaparilla (Smilax) for that as it was used long, long ago for similar spirochete infections
I think you would still need to take the supplements at a different time, however.
I'll work on this and come back later.
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Posted by daisys (Member # 11802) on :
This came up at my last appt.
My doctor would like me to be on cholestyramine, because it binds the toxins and gets them out of the system, but it has to be taken far from any meds and 3-4 times a day. I take so many piles of supps/meds, spaced from each other, there's no room to fit in the cholestyramine.
The next best thing is soluable fiber. He said apples and oatmeal are great for that. I'm gluten intolerant, so oatmeal's out for me. I do, however, make muffins with coconut flour which is almost entirely soluable fiber.
So, on doctor's orders, I eat 2-3 muffins and an apple a day! Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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As carob can be binding, lots of water, fiber good to prevent constipation. Carob has some wonderful minerals and good protein, carb, fat ratio. So it might bind to toxins while also nourishing. that would be the goal.
INFLAMMATION AND ITS ROLE IN DISEASE John G. Connor, M.Ac., L.Ac. - Updated Jan. 2005
See the section on Arginine, carob contains it.
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If I find the exact reference I was looking for, I'll come back and post it, but I think I'm toast for the day already.
Cheers !
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Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
what is rebounding, please? thanks.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
what is rebounding, please? thanks.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Rebounding is using a mini trampoline to get the lymph moving.
As I understand it, our lymph system does not have circulation on its own.
Only physical movement, massage - or sweating - can get this moving out the gunk.
For our purposes of moving lymph or gentle breathing, rebounding - as one ND told me - is not necessary jumping on a mini trampoline, but just standing and gently bouncing with feet not even leaving the surface.
If one cannot stand and keep balance, some models have a safety bar one can hold onto or you could position it near a tall kitchen counter, etc.
One can also just SIT on it and bounce with a gentle and steady rhythm.
Those with vertigo might opt for something like a round PT or exercise ball to sit on and gently bounce.
With my inner ear condition, although I used a mini tramp 20 years ago for an hour a day - well, now I can't do it at all without landing in bed, spinning for a week or more.
However, for those with good inner ear and good necks, this may be fun. Other than my inner ear condition, I asked a chiropractor if this might be good for me and he emphatically said, "not with your neck" - so those with any spinal considerations, check it out first.
I suppose as a person gets stronger they could move up to gently jogging on the trampoline, but aerobic levels are not encouraged during infections - as some doctors say.
Others may be able to do more - or less - but just keeping to what does not cause "payback" or setback or herx.
One doctor suggested that exercise be increased by just one minute a month.
This can be a topic with different advice. But it all boils down to the lymph getting moving without exercise intolerance causing too much stress.
I guess gentle walking or just moving around to some music would help, I'm not an expert.
One consideration if you buy a rebounder/min-trampoline is the smell of the vinyl safety cover or the coating of the tramp mat. the last one I bought a few years ago was gastily in smell. I had to give it away.
A PT ball might be bought used from a P.T. department. I traded a brand new one for a used one so it had off-gassed.
Waiting for summer - or if you live where you can really air it out - might be good.
More than 7000 schoolchildren are reputedly injured at this sport annually.
[Gymnastic school sport injuries--aspects of preventive measures]
another abstract: Rebounding exercise. Are the training effects sufficient for cardiorespiratory fitness?
(but - remember - for lymph movement, we aren't necessarily talking about cardio stuff. Although the tramp will help with breathing and that is good. Note that Dr. B has cautioned against aerobic exercise until endurance is stable. Obviously, people have different capacities, so listen to your body and doctor.)
I just got the Nanotek Chitosan - so, I'm going to give that a try.
I will be cautious due to a couple of warnings from you guys out there!
I have tried a drug called Welchol. I believe that it's similar to the chlorestramine.
I think it's for chloresterol but it can be used to bind toxins.
My doctor gave me some samples & he said to take it & then eat something with fat in it.
I think this causes the gall bladder to dump toxins into the stomach so the Welchol can absorb it.
It does cause constipation.
There's also the similar thing that you have to take it 2 hours before or after medicine - so, it was difficult trying to time all the medications I was on.
It's really funny - there must be some kind of syncronicity going on here!
I was driving down a street & I was on that street by accident but something told me to go down that street.
Someone was throwing out a practically brand new rebounder - a really good one.
I was like, "Great! Just what I wanted!".
So, I took it home & it's alot of fun.
I do it if I'm feeling up to it & I do feel better the next day.
I put on some music that's a specific time limit (3 or 5 minutes is about all I can handle right now) & I bounce gently.
My back is killing me - so, I have to be gentle.
I was just thinking - I should ask people on the message board if anyone else is doing this & how they react.
It's so hard since I haven't been able to exercise in such a long time.
This has been really helpful to get me into some kind of activity.
Also- dry brushing your skin towards your heart with a dry brush (natural bristle) helps the lymph, too.
Be careful with some of the herbs -
They may be OK for short durations but some are not meant to be taken for long periods of time.
I don't think the bottled garlic for cooking has any medicinal properties.
Garlic has 2 chemicals that when the garlic is mashed, produce the beneficial effects.
The 2 chemicals need to be used right away, otherwise they oxidize (I think that's the proper term) & become useless.
So, it's probably best to crush the garlic & take it right away.
I'm kind of doubtful that any of the commercial garlic pills are still vital.
I don't know if it can bind toxins, though.
It may be good in other ways.
How about psylium seeds or nutritional clay powder?
There are also some bowel cleansers that don't have psylium - I think they use cassia seeds & other herbs or something.
How about colonics & that sort of thing?
I never tried it & I don't know if that will actually decrease neurotoxins but some people swear by it.
Check "colonics", "bowel cleansing", or "intestinal cleansing" on Google for more info... there's lots of info.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
PS- I'm not so sure it's a good idea to megadose on any vitamin. There are actually no studies that I know of that study the long term effects of megadoses of vitamins. It may be harmful unless you really know you are deficient.
Some vitamins that do help with toxins are magnesium & glutathione. I believe that you have to take the precursors of glutathione (NAC & cystine) for it to work, though.
I've also heard that alpha-lipoic acid is an antioxidant.
You may need to spend some time studying about these supplements before doing anything with them.
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
My doctor had me on Perque Vitamin C.
For a long time now though I have simply purchased Vit C at my local healthfood store.
I do not believe Vit C can do any longterm damage. The body does not store it at all and any excess is simply passed out of the body.
I stopped the Vit C at one point for a month or so. Then a routine blood pressure check at doctor's office revealed 139/95. He took it again 30 days later and same results. He was about to put me on blood pressure medicine.
I jumped on the internet to see what natural foods I could take instead and whalla! I found that Vit C reduces blood pressure. So I bought some and started back on it. 30 days later, at the rheumatologist's office, blood pressure was 118/72.
I have not stopped supplementing Vit C since then and my blood pressure is always very good.
I am not afraid of overdosing garlic either. Keep in mind, I was very toxic and my toxin loads seem to be way down now as I am asymptomatic.
As for rebounding. I have rheumatoid arthritis. Talk about pain from bouncing. I couldn't do even the most gentle bouncing when I purchased my rebounder. BTW, my rebounder never smelled. At first I could only sit on it and bounce due to arthritis in knees and ankles. Gradually, I was able to stand and bounce gently for a few minutes.
Today, my arthritis is gone and I can rebound 20 to 30 mins daily. I am perfectly content to keep my feet on the mat when bouncing (not airborne). This is all the motion you need to move your lymph glands. But with feeling so good now, I do have to resist high intensity bouncing. It is fun and you can watch TV while bouncing because it doesn't make a lot of noice like a treadmill would.
I suffer severe stiff neck and the rebounding plus massage therapy totally eliminates this pain.
I purchased my rebounder from the following source.
I have no affiliation with these people and heard about them from another thread here at lymenet.
I know the rebounder helped me eliminate joint pain.
Luvs
Posted by DakotasMom01 (Member # 14141) on :
Thank you for all the info.
I don't have a good dr. So rx'd drugs are out for me. Mention Lyme or friends and they are ready to send you to a padded room, even with positve wb results. They think you should be cured after 3 mons of abx.
I will check with our health food store and see if they have some of the other items mentioned.
I do the epsom salt baths and foot soaks, with and without peroxide. And drink the warm lemon water.
My spine is too unstable to do rebounding.I can't do any sudden moves. I do other little things for exersizing.
Thank you, take care. Dakotasmom
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
Regarding the difficulties of chlorella...
There have been several discussions regarding the use of chlorella here. When people feel bad on chlorella, sometimes more has to be taken. This has to be evaluated carefully, however. I have also heard of others starting out with very small amounts and working up to larger amounts.
Chlorella is an amazing substance, not just for its' binding properties but for its' nutritional properties also. Very nourishing. Health conscious people who were not sick, whom I used to work with, took large amounts of it daily.
Important to purchase high quality chlorella.
Here is a link to a list of benefits of chlorella as well as a lengthy discussion.
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