I'm having a lot of abdominal pains lately. They came on quite suddenly. Never had a problem before with my stomach or bowels but I suspect this is due to the long term antibiotics.
Pains are primarily on my right side just below my ribs but it moves around to my RT side and lower back. The happens all day long.
Tests so far (blood and stool samples, abdominal ultrasound, endoscope) all came back normal. I'm still waiting on biopsy results from the endoscope but everything appeared normal per the Gastro MD.
The pain doesn't respond to any over the counter therapies that I've tried so far (tums, pepto, gas-x). I take probotics daily.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Any ideas would be appreciated. I'm thinking it could be yeast.
Posted by POP (Member # 4111) on :
Hello Mathias, I am going through the same thing you are, mine started about a month ago. Mine started in my back and worked it`s way into my stomach, it moves back and forth, a lot of pain.
I`ve been on long term ABX on and off for years and I do probotics, I also tried Pepto, Gas-X all the over the counter with no relief. I have an appointment with my LLD tomorrow, I will ask him if it could be yeast.
I was going to make an appointment with a Gastro MD but I figured it would be to no avail. I hope to find the answer soon, I cannot take it anymore. If you find out anything PLEASE let me know, best of luck and God Bless. POP
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
mATHIAS, so sorry you and next poster are going thru this pain, discomfort, etc.
on your endoscope biopsy, were they looking for CELIAC DISEASE TOO; being allergic to GLUTEN: wheat, rye, oats, and barley foods? i sure hope so!
last year i found out after 30-35 years my sick gut was food allergies:
gluten, wheat and rye
casein--cow's milk, cheeses, egg whites, and garlic!
good luck; have food allergy testing; VERY COMMON W/LYME PATIENTS! Posted by DakotasMom01 (Member # 14141) on :
Your not alone in this. A few yrs ago I went through the same thing. With all test results fine/neg. I hope you feel better soon.
Posted by Curiouser (Member # 14128) on :
I've got the same thing. It was intermittent for a year and became constant 2 months ago.
And I haven't started treatment yet, so can't blame it on abx.
Had a u/s and CT w/contrast and nothing showed.
Digestive enzymes and hot lemon water helps to keep it down to a dull roar but it never goes away completely.
Was dx'd with gluten, dairy, corn, and sugar intolerances back in Oct.
Oddly enough, not long after I started eating a modified diet is when the pain became chronic. Go figure.
Will be getting test results back for dysbiosis, parasites, etc. back in a couple of weeks. Will let you know, if you're interested.
Been reading that Lyme can cause abdominal pain. Can't find much on why tho.
Posted by bunnyfluff (Member # 14117) on :
I was going to post the same thing...but my pain is the left side, just under the rib cage!
I had some spasm-y thing going on Sat night, which felt like a heart attack, but not my heart...if you get my drift. Then the next day until today, it feels like someone punched me in the stomach REALLY hard, and it is swollen, and hurts to touch the outside!!!
It doesn't hurt to eat, tho, so I am thinking it must be spleen or something. Cripes! I have never had this before.
What is going on? Can it just be some sort of flu?
Bunny
Posted by LymeCFIDSMCS (Member # 13573) on :
Me too!! Mine just started and I was just about to post a thread on this when I saw yours! I'm glad everyone posted as I was afraid I was having another bout of appendicitis. I had one that was cured with acupuncture a few years ago.
FYI, if you have stomach pains that start in the middle (around belly button) and then move to the lower right quadrant of your belly, it might be appendicitis.
Mine are right above my belly button right now. Owwwww.
Posted by improver (Member # 8380) on :
I am having pains at the bottom of my right ribs also. LLMD thinks it may be costochondritis. Had appendix out almost 14 years ago. Since the liver and gall bladder are in the area that I am having the pain I had an ultrasound which was neg.
My lower ribs sometimes feel tender to the touch.
Posted by Aniek (Member # 5374) on :
First thought about right side pain is gallbladder.
If the gallbladder turns out ok, then it could be the Sphincter of Odi, which is the duct that lets out the bile from the gallbladder. When it spasms, it mimics a gallbladder attack.
If it is neither of these, then think liver or pancreas.
I have had right abdominal pain for two years that we are pretty sure is chronic pancreatitis. I've had elevated pancreatic levels, but they do not always stay elevated in chronic pancreatitis.
Do you have problems digesting fat? Does the pain occur with fat intake? That suggests gallbladder, sphincter of odi or pancreas.
Any chance you took Ketek? My right abdominal pain started after Ketek.
Posted by POP (Member # 4111) on :
Hello Mathias and Gang, I went to my LLD today, my test results came back positive for Bartonella. Is this the reason why I`m having abdominal and back back? I don`t know.
I guess I find out soon, my doc put me on 2 different types of ABX. I hope this helps because the pain is out of hand. Has anyone else along the way been diagnosed with 4 different infections?
I was infected in 1992 with Lyme Disease, had multiple relapes through the years. Babesiosis in 1999, Ehrlichiosis in 2002 and now Bartonella, I can`t take it no more, out of work and out of my mind. POP
Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
I also get this pain on the left side though. Had similar tests run. My LLMD concluded that infammation is likely the cause (hurts more when I herx too) and shoudn't worry.
Posted by Mathias (Member # 5298) on :
Thanks so much for all the responses to this post. I appreciate it very much.
Here are my responses to your comments/thoughts/suggestions:
Have not been checked for celiac disease Have not been checked for yeast infection Haven't figured out a link to any food but that could be a possibility Pending endo biopsy results all came back negative Liver and pancreas enzymes were all normal when checked Liver, pancreas, spleen and gall bladder all looked normal on the u/s No problems digesting fat Have taken Ketek in the past, probably 18-24 months ago was the last time Lower rib cage does get sore from time to time Pain sometimes becomes bilateral but it is predominantly RT sided appendicitis is not something that I considred previously, don't know if the Gastro has considered it, u/s did not look at it.
MY PCP thought it could be gas (tried Gas-X and it didn't work) or possibly IBS.
I see the Gastro MD this Friday. I'm very curious to see what he thinks is going on now after all of these negative tests.
Posted by Aniek (Member # 5374) on :
My pancreatic levels were only elevated for a few months. They are now normal. When I've researched pancreatitis online, I found sites that said the levels do not always remain raised in chronic pancreatitis. Which means, you may not have tested when the levels were elevated.
I find it interesting that you were also on Ketek at some point, and we both have the right abdominal pain. Makes me wonder even more about the Ketek connection and my pain.
Posted by Mathias (Member # 5298) on :
Met with the doc. Celiac disease was R/O. He doesn't think it is yeast but did not perform any tests to R/O.
If the pain doesn't clear in a few weeks (just from using a different probotic) he wants me to get a CT scan to look at abdomen and my liver and pancreas. If the CT is clear then it is going to chalked up to IBS.
The pain in my back is the worst part. It is supposedly a "rebound" from what is going on in the front. Anyone ever experience or hear of that?
Posted by bunnyfluff (Member # 14117) on :
With the back pain involved I would actually guess "gall bladder". My friend described that as being like a knife/fist in the back, and knot the shoulder, sometimes, too.
Posted by ArtistDi (Member # 2297) on :
This just happened to me as well, and I have chronic pancreatitis, but when we checked my amaylase/lipase levels, it wasn't pancreatitis.
Like you, I did Carafate and Aciphex, without lots of improvement. My llmd and I discussed possible serum sickness from increasing my IVIG, but testing came back negative.
I started taking activated charcoal, and the pain went away. It could be a build up of toxins, or gastritis from years of antibiotic use. I was taking Valcyte and Diflucan orally, so went on a med holiday with those. Seems to help.
See what happens when you take some activated charcoal.
Posted by Aniek (Member # 5374) on :
Is this a GI doc or your LLMD? Whenever a GI doc can't make a diagnosis they chalk it up to irritable bowel...even when the symptoms don't fit.
These are the symptoms of IBS according to the NIH. If your symptoms don't fit, then decide whether you feel comfortable accepting IBS. My GI doc tried this, when my pain is in no way related to bowel movements.
The main symptoms of IBS are
* abdominal pain or discomfort in the abdomen, often relieved by or associated with a bowel movement * chronic diarrhea, constipation, or a combination of both
Other symptoms are
* whitish mucus in the stool * a swollen or bloated abdomen * the feeling that you have not finished a bowel movement
Posted by TheCrimeOfLyme (Member # 4019) on :
gallbladder
and you'll need a certain test for it. The HIDA scan ( which is the certain test) did NOT show my gallstones though. A simple xray did because they were the black kind of stones(nice and calcified). if they stop at the HIDA, request a simple xray.
I lost my gallbladder at 24 with seven stones. It took the doctors six months to even CONSIDER it was my gallbladder, so Im just giving you a heads up. Your pain is in ALL the right places.
If you are into alternative things, Hulda Clark has a great liver flush for this. Beats having your gallbladder removed and the gamuts of problems ( waving) that CAN come from it in ******SOME ********* people ( waving again).
Posted by dontlikeliver (Member # 4749) on :
I've had the same for about 6 weeks now and off all meds and relapsed pretty bad too. Even stopped Cowden and Nystatin and not even doing any Diflucan as everything was aggravating it.
Pain that is burning/grinding under right rib cage pretty high up and also on and off in center between ribs like a pressure of someone pressing up. Sometimes with nausea and burning pain and sometimes without. Pain also sometimes radiates to back and around chest.
had ultrasound of gallbladder, liver, pancreas and kidneys and all clear.
Waiting for Endoscopy now.
Such a pain, literally, and scary when you're relapsing back into hell because of it.
Posted by lymeinhell (Member # 4622) on :
My $ are on Gallbladder. Watched 2 family members go through the same thing. COL is right - I'd get a HIDA scan.
(just my 2 cents!)
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mathias: Met with the doc. Celiac disease was R/O. He doesn't think it is yeast but did not perform any tests to R/O.
HOW did he rule it (celiac) out????
Ducks are clueless when it comes to yeast. You say you've been taking probiotics. What brand, how much??
How's your anti-yeast diet coming along??
I'd still bet on the gallbladder and agree with Julie that you should get a HIDA Scan.
DIET, DIET, DIET is the key. Then, be sure to follow the 5 step plan outlined below. It was developed by my naturopath. It works.
"Successful control and elminiation of a Candida Albicans overgrowth requires a multifaceted program as described below. Failure to follow ALL the steps simultaneously will result in slow progress and will lengthen healing time significantly. The program should be tailored to the individual and must balance the need to eliminate the Candida and deprive it of its food source while insuring proper nutrition for the individual."
Five Steps to Candida Elimination:
1. You must starve it into submission by eliminating its food source.
2. You must kill it with anti-fungal herbs and supplements. [e.g....garlic, onion, caprylic acid, Pau D'Arco capsules or tea, clove, grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, tea tree oil, Echinacea, Goldenseal, black walnut, MSM, barberry root, uva ursi, neem leaf, biotin]
3. You must reestablish the proper balance and quantity of probiotic bacteria in the digestive tract. [...multi-strain lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidus capsules with FOS should be taken between meals to maximize repopulation of the digestive tract by beneficial bacteria.]
4. You must reestablish proper levels of all B vitamins (yeast free) and utilize other immune enhancing supplements to boost immune system function. [e.g ... B complex vitamins (yeast free), biotin, beta 1-3 glucan, colostrum, maitake mushroom, vitamins A, C, E, zinc and selenium]
5. You must cleanse and heal the digestive tract to promote proper elimination of toxins and Candida and assimilation of nutrients. [e.g...chlorophyll, MSM, omega 3 fatty acids found in flax seed and salmon oils, GLA found in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils. Pantothenic acid, digestive enzymes between meals]
Posted by improver (Member # 8380) on :
I stopped all meds last week from this stupid pain. It has reduced but I am feeling it a little today. I have a HIDA scan this week so we will see.
Sometimes I think it gets a little better with eating. I know another lymie that is going through the same thing. Maybe it's gallbladder season... Posted by dontlikeliver (Member # 4749) on :
Both my LLMD and my PCP suggested gallbladder ultrasound, which was done by a third consultant at the hospital.
If an ultrasound is so useless in finding gallbladder problems, then why has this HIDA scan or whatever, never been mentioned or suggested. Is there some kind of gallbladder conspiracy also? It's exhausting enough fighting for Lyme treatment, but if there is now a simiilar situation with gallbladders and diagnosing problems in there, I am going to scream.
Posted by CaliforniaLyme (Member # 7136) on :
Spleens can literally BURST from babesiosis- my spleen hurt like CRAZY when I was sick- and pain -
the SIDE DOESN'T MATTER because pain is quote often REFERRED from one side to the otehr!!
neurologically, the body tends to be symetrical it is common for gallbladder pain to surface on opposite side of where the gb is- which is the spleen- andvice versa- so if you get gb pain and your gb checks out fine, a good internist will look at your spleen()!!+!)!
Posted by improver (Member # 8380) on :
DLL, I think they do an ultrasound first looking for stones and checking size of organs in that area. The HIDA is more for checking gallbladder function and sometimes they see something they may have missed in the ultrasound.
It seems that insurance companies want an ultrasound done first since it's cheaper. Just my take on this. I have been reading up since I am on step 2 and getting the HIDA soon.
Posted by Aniek (Member # 5374) on :
improver is basically correct. The ultrasound will show gallstones. The HIDA scan shows functioning.
Gallstones are much more common that a non-functioning gallbladder without stones. So they check for stones first. If there are continued symptoms, then doctors will order a HIDA scan.
Posted by SouthernCO (Member # 11167) on :
Aniek, you said:
"If the gallbladder turns out ok, then it could be the Sphincter of Odi, which is the duct that lets out the bile from the gallbladder. When it spasms, it mimics a gallbladder attack."
Where did you find this information? As you and I have discussed before, opiod and opiate pain medications can cause this exact symptom plus an elevation of the amylase blood count.
When I was taking 40mg/day Oxycontin (and several years of Fentanyl patches, morphine, etc.), I ended up in the hosp 4 days with pancreatitis.
The manufacturer's insert states that these meds can cause elevation of amylase and/or spasm of Sphincter of Oddi.
Having been off of opioids/opiates for several months, the attacks have not recurred.
Guess it will take a few successful lawsuits to get this information to the ignorant drs.
Posted by Aniek (Member # 5374) on :
SouthernCO,
I was told that by multiple doctors (my LLMD, a gatroentrologist and two surgeons) when we couldn't figure out what was causing my pain.
They said the only way to definitively diagnose the Sphincter of Odi syndrome is to do an endoscopy and look. However, the endoscopy itself can cause pancreatitis and the GI doctor and surgeon weren't comfortable with taking the chance on me.
I tried a drug which was supposed to stop spasms but it didn't make much of a difference and made me tired. So I just stay away from eating fat.
I take vicodin, but not large doses. There is no pattern between the vicodin and the pain.
Posted by SouthernCO (Member # 11167) on :
Hi Aniek:
What a strange coincidence it was:
The same day I posted my experience with opiate/opioid drugs causing spasm in in Sphincter of Oddi, an episode of "Mystery Diagnosis" (or Diagnosis X, not sure which) showed the story of a woman with similar symptoms who had a defect in the Sphincter of Oddi.
She had several surgeries including gallbladder removal which did not help the problem.
Finally, a dr who had seen the problem before was able to diagnose it, and the surgery was successful.
Thanks for the information. You are very lucky that you had competent drs. I was lucky enough to read the fine print on the oxycontin manufacturer's insert.
The last dr (gastroenterology) I talked to told me that I was crazy. I was so angry I didn't even show him the cautions about oxycontin.
Posted by Mathias (Member # 5298) on :
Holy cow, that a lot of posts. Thanks for keeping this topic up.
The latest on my situation:
The pain got so bad the past three day that I went ahead and had the CT scan right away. Got the results today and it showed nothing everything looks perfect.
I have never heard of a HIDA but was told my gallbladder looked ok from the U/S and CT.
I'll also look into activated charcoal.
This gastro doc is not an LLMD. Agree that he will chalk it up to IBS if he cannot find a diagnosis, agree that he had no clue about yeast.
I don't think it is IBS, I don't have enough of the symptoms.
I do see the gastro again tomorrow and will ask more questions about the gallbladder. I get that same advice from other people as well that is sounds gallbladderish.
The good news is that I see my LLMD on Tuesday. All of these R/O's lend more strength to this being related to my infection or some collateral problem (yeast or something else). I think he may have some better ideas as to what to do for me at this visit.
I've been also thinking I may finally may need an antibiotic switch. I've been on low dose Doryx since August 05 for mycoplasma fermentans. It has done a real good job of keeping me in good health. Perhaps it is finally stopping to work and I need something new.
The think that I cannot figure out is I've never had this symptom before... so it doesn't seem like a typical relapse.
Posted by bunnyfluff (Member # 14117) on :
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