How many people here have had a prior surgery before becoming ill?
I'm not a doctor but I think there is a connection.
My mom, sister and I are all Igenex positive IGM. But my mom is not sick. My sister and I became sick around the same time and we also got breast implants around the same time 7 years ago.
This timing seems odd and the fact my mom is not sick even though she is twice our age tells me there is more to this than Lyme alone. Something triggered my sister and I to get so ill (breast implants? surgery in general?) plus I had a spinal fusion for scoliosis with titanium rods when I was 13 whereas my mom had no surgeries.
I want to get my implants out but that would be another surgery and I don't know if its the surgery it self that makes you ill or the implants or both.
So if I could just get some responses to see how common it is to have had prior surgery (especially implanted devices)and now be symptomatic.
Im not doubting we are ill with Lyme. I think the Igenex test is picking up on a Lyme-like bacteria. I just think there are other factors involved that explain why people can test positive yet not be ill.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
my feeling (and i'm not an MD) is that removing the implants would be a wise decision. i've read/heard innumerable horror stories of women falling ill following breast implant surgery. in your case, perhaps the implants are stressing your immune system; one possible explanation for why you & your sister are ill, but your mother is not. of course, myriad factors contribute to who develops symptoms from lyme infection and who remains healthy - but i don't think your hypothesis is an implausible one.
(surgery in general is a stress on the system, yes; but i'm inclined to suspect the implants. maybe someone else can be of more assistance factually/scientifically.)
Posted by wxrock (Member # 13039) on :
The whole thing regarding implants and illness has been scientifically debunked. There's been extensive research done on this the last 15 years and there is not statistically significant relationship between having implants and increased occurance of any illness. Thus, the FDA has recently made silicone implants avialable again (saline implants have always been avaibable).
Once again, money hungery lawyers caused a needless ruckus where there was no science to support them. Sure, any given person can have issues with their implants--capsular contracture, problems with surgery, etc--but they do not cause disease. So, if you have them in and there are no obvious problems, why have another surgery to remove them?
FYI, I've studied all the research closely over the past decade because my wife has had implants for over 15 years.
Posted by bunnyfluff (Member # 14117) on :
I was ill before the implants.
The surgery can stress your body more, causing symptoms to initiate or flare. Like the people that suddenly have "Fibro" after a car wreck. There are organisms hiding out, and they just get jarred awake and into action, taking advantage of the body having less defense.
Implants and devices can cause problems for people, and everyone is different in their reactions.
To answer your general question about surgery, I had a C-section, hysterectomy, septoplasty, oral surgery before the implants......However.....I also had chicken pox as an adult, a blood transfusion, measles and mumps as a kid, and I was bit by a tick when I was about 12 (and maybe more before).
Pregnancies are well known to change things for women and their bodies. I work with a woman who is a self-confessed "big ole pot-head" prior to giving birth, and afterward she was allergic to marijuana!
I personally love my implants, and when I get better and get this lyme-weight off, I will look like Barbie once again!
Hope this helps your survey! Bunny
Posted by just don (Member # 1129) on :
I doubt the implants themselves are causing problems unless they are the OLDstyle and leaking.
I am MORE concerned with them giving you,,probably unknowingly, steroids as part of the surgery. They love to use that,,,think it is the be all end all wonder drug.
Maybe for others but NOT for LYMIES!!!
Unless your having specific problems another surgery is stress and exposure to stuff you dont NEED!!! (Thats MY vote!!) but still--just don--
Posted by KS (Member # 12549) on :
My LLMD told me that he sees a good number of patients who had recently had surgeries or given birth (like me) that don't recall a tick-bite or rash.
His theory is that many of us could have previously been infected but that our immune system was keeping it in check and then sugery/birth....whamo! It is either the immune system is somehow compromised or the body terrain changes enough so that the Bb comes out...or maybe a combination of the two.
Posted by sfcharm (Member # 9392) on :
I had three spinal cervical fusions. One in 91,93 and 2000. During the one in 2000 I had a stroke and lost use of my Right arm.
I then had bells palsy and by 2005 was very sick from something. It took one year and 20 Doctors to get me to a lyme diagnosis.
I've since seen my neurosurgeon and talked with him. He believes my stroke in 2000 was due to lyme. He believes in it since he summers in Conneticut.
I definitely believe there is a connection to surgery and the immune system going downhill afterwards.
Barb
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
i was bitten xmas 1969; got sick Jan. 70; dx with mono/EBV
79 was the 1st of 12-13 surgeries; gallbladder removed and I was in there for 10-12 days; MURPHY'S LAW EVERYDAY including a collapsed lung.
NO implants for this corn-fed Iowa gal! I had breast reduction in 86 losing 5.5 lbs. of boobs!
each surgery I had MANY complications; all before I knew I had chronic lyme since 1969 !!
last surgery 3-06, hip replacement surgery, gave them a sheet for fibro/cfs electives BEFORE SURGERY, and they complied including NO STEROIDS!
needless to say, I developed a blood clot and discovered this myself instead of MDS/RNS at hospital. Posted by linzlu (Member # 12818) on :
To wxrock, bunnyfluff and just don':
You mean like the kind of statistically signicant scientific studies like the ones on Lyme disease that say its cured in a month and there is no such thing as chronic Lyme and long-term treating is ineffective?
Why are you so quick to believe one group of doctors and studies but not the other? Studies on implants, drugs, vaccines, illnesses, etc rarely go beyond a 5-year followup because of the expense, time and difficulty.
Also people with any previous or current comorbid conditon are not included. So the TRUE long-term implications of many so-called 'safe' procedures are not really known. They are only known to a certain time frame and within a specific patient pool IF its even investigated.
I wish I could expain this better. I feel so sick. I was working on my master in biostatistics but now barely make it to a class.
I really fear my sister and I will never get well and the surgeries have permanently damaged our immune systems.
Keep in mind I have a unique perspective. With an ill sister who got ill at same time as me and and a mother who is positive just like me and my sister but not ill. The big difference between her and us is she has not had surgeries. Life stress, ageing, etc.. --yes. But not surgery.
Also I have no viruses, I'm negative for epstein-barr, herpes 1, 2 , 6, etc.. I know pretty rare! But the Lyme gave me such an OCD complex and social phobia I really didn't have much contact with other people to extent to really catch any of those.
But my sister is positive for all those but we are equally ill. I think the virus explanation is contributory but there is a deeper problem.
Don't you all see. They are WRONG! They are wrong about Lyme, they are wrong about breast implants and surgery too! They are WRONG most of the time but are too arrogant and brain-dead to see it. And we the public are the ones who are paying the ultimate price with our health.
Posted by wxrock (Member # 13039) on :
Right. And 9-11 was an "inside job." Pshaw!
Remember, your thoughts are POWERFUL...and with regard to personal health, your thinking can make you sick . So if you believe strongly enough that your implants are making you sick, you will begin to "experience" sickness...and connect all things that happen to you as being the results of your implants. Of course, that's called a study of one...which doesn't hold water.
so, change your thinking and beliefs...and change your life!
[ 07. February 2008, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: wxrock ]
Posted by tailz (Member # 10014) on :
I had my uterus and one ovary removed, but I was already going downhill prior to the surgery. I did have problems with anemia and bleeding after the surgery though.
Sometimes I wonder if I picked up staph in the hospital, and that caused my Lyme to flare. I did have a staph infection - I don't know - maybe I still do, but I'm tired of having to request my own tests - it's getting old.
Posted by tailz (Member # 10014) on :
linzlu, this may be the common denominator between you and your sister: EMF/RF exposure from cell phones, nearby cell phone towers, or wi-fi - or even a cordless phone.
That's why some people with Lyme don't become ill, and others do. If I had to do it over again, I would never spend 4 hours on the cordless phone listening to my friend. She disappeared on me anyway, and now I'm sick.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
right, wxrock. and all of us with chronic lyme are just thinking ourselves sick. the 'ducks' are right - it's all in our heads! we just need to snap out of it and we'll be fine!
(which is not to undermine the power of our thoughts. but what you are suggesting to the original poster is ridiculous and demeaning, in my opinion.)
Posted by linzlu (Member # 12818) on :
Thanks heiwalove:
That's the same stupid arguement the "ducks" say and its WRONG!
Thinking 9'11 was an inside job whether true or not has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
I'm trying to enlighten some people, learn from others and maybe look at this issue from a less narrow perspective.
One reason Igenex is not used by the mainstream medical community is because its results show a large amount positives even amonst people who are not diabled and 'relatively' healthy.
I'm NOT saying they are wrong! But there's more to this illness than Lyme. Ceratin indivuals get ill while a lot dont. Why? It is obvious to ask why. How can you not?
You can not believe everything doctors spoon feed you no more than you can believe what the government, your neighbors, etc.. tell you.
Even the best studies are limited. If you will read my posting at the start I listed some of the ways studies can be limited. They are NOT applicable to everyone. They have to be limited to have any kind of validity and get published.
Questioning an issue is not paranoid or crazy.
I just 'think' my hands and feet are burning, I just 'think' I have a fever, I just "think" my hair is falling out. I just 'think' I'm so faigued I can't move. I just 'think' I have a rash. I just 'think' I have chills and my knees hurt.
I can go on but my point is I can 'think' surgery and breast implants are playing roles in this illness. Maybe I'm right or maybe I'm wrong.
But knowing the TRUTH allows a person to make better choices about their health and treatment.
The sooner all variables of this illness are realized the sooner people can get better treatment and hopefully get well.
Posted by savebabe (Member # 9847) on :
One doc I saw in NYC was studying the relationship between breast implants and lupus, and found there was a link.
Personally I would have them removed and then detox.
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
I think I'm going to go the diplomatic route here:
I think the disease/illness is already in the body and that "maybe" it would have remained dormant but then the surgery causes it to "come out of hiding".
My LLMD is doing research about really low MSH levels (caused by an inabiity of the body to rid itself of biotoxins) and plastic surgery.
He discussed tummy tucks with a particular surgeon and why some of the patients healed nicely and quickly, whereas others took a very long time and had complications.
The difference "seemed" to be linked to patients with TBD's vrs patients without. So the research is still "in the works".
My conclusion: The disease is already in you and the procedure(s) sets it off.
Posted by jentytib (Member # 14375) on :
Here is what I think.
The implants are a foreign object in the body and the bugs like that and are attracted to that.
So if you have Lyme in your system and it has not presented itself yet, and you put an implant in there, symptoms my show up.
I had symptoms before I got my implants but was undiagnosed. I was believing it was all anxiety at that time.
I was bittern 14 years ago but things didn't go to crap for me till 3 years ago after the birth of my SEOCOND child.
I have only been on abx for 5 weeks and this damn numb patch on my boob comes and goes.
It showed up about 9 months after my surgery and never went away till I started the abx.
I had originally thought the numb area was the price you pay for a lift but since it goes away now, I think it is because of the Lyme.
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
yup, I agree with you, jentytib.
predisposition, then surgery, then exacerbation or presentation of disease.
Posted by wxrock (Member # 13039) on :
heiwalove, you haven't read my post correctly. I wasn't saying people with chronic lyme think themselves sick (although I'm sure a few do that don't really have lyme), but that women with implants can begin to think (eventually compulsively) that everything that happens to them is related to the implants. (since the scum lawyers created hysteria with NO real science to back up their claims).
Posted by bunnyfluff (Member # 14117) on :
linzlu.... WT?????
All I said is that I was sick before my implants. If this doesn't support the answers you were trying to get (ie: implants make people sick), then why did you ask?? I am only telling you what has happened to me. I have had my implants for 8 yrs, and I have no complaints.
Unbelieveably, I know LOTS and LOTS of women here in DFW with implants, most of whom are never sick a day in their lives.
If you honestly think they are a problem for YOU, REMOVE THEM!!
I like mine, and Lyme gave me Lyme. My implants just gave me great boobs.
Bunny
Posted by maureen2174 (Member # 11471) on :
Okay, totally not answering the question here or anything but I have always wanted implants. I was waiting until I was finished having children because of the breastfeeding factor (I have one son now, almost 3). If I do have more children (hopefully when I get better) I will probably not breastfeed, but still want implants!!!! I was small to begin with, and then breastfeeding my son for 18 months made me even smaller.....
So, advice is NOT to get boobs? I was hoping once I was done with this nightmare, I could give myself a present (LOL), probably not a good idea?
Oh, and I will most likely have to have c-sections with future children as well.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
okay, this is a whole other argument/discussion i realize, but seriously people, love the body you have! after going through the hell of lyme and learning how to care for and tend to your body lovingly, why would you risk that over something so superficial??
(and they say we don't need feminism anymore... )
love yourself!! as you are!! small boobs and all!
<3 Posted by Littlesprout (Member # 7406) on :
I would suggest contacting your local Breast Implant Support Group and get the "real" story about this. It is a cover up just like the Lyme cover up.
I know several women, who got sick from their implants. One had a sister who died from them. One had hers removed, sent them off for testing came back positive with mold and fungus (saline ones) Her doctor said they were a little dark when he removed them. When she saw them, they were very black.
There is a doctor in Dallas, TX (Environemental Health Clinic) who deals with women sick from the implants. That is the first thing he looks for. He says the FDA is full of BS. Just like the BS they are trying to feed the public about Lyme.
The ketes probably drill holes in the implants just like they do with our brains. Posted by Geneal (Member # 10375) on :
Here's a different take....
Your Mom is not the only one whom you inherited your genetics from.
I also believe that some people's genetic make-ups are "stronger" than others.
Is it possible then that your Mom (having a different genetic make up)
Is able to "handle the disease".
I've been wanting a face lift in a few years.
One because Lyme has really aged me and two
Because I am an old Mom with young children.
I don't want to go to an event for them and have someone ask them if I am their Grandmother.
I know though, in the back of my head, the probability of this causing
A relapse for me is pretty darn good.
Sooooo......vanity or illness? I haven't made my mind up on that yet.
If you think your breast implants interfere with your ability to get well,
Then by all means get them removed.
Everybody reacts differently to different things.
You need to do what you need to do to take care of you.
I hope you get to feeling better soon.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posted by canbravelyme (Member # 9785) on :
"but that women with implants can begin to think (eventually compulsively) that everything that happens to them is related to the implants. (since the scum lawyers created hysteria with NO real science to back up their claims)."
How about men with penile implants?
I truly believe that you are not aware of the sexist root of your considerations. I do get the sense that you're sincerely trying to help, but you're further perpetuating the very myth that you are proporting is the problem.
Lawyers creating hysteria for these "women". Did you know that hysteria is from the same root as the word uterus? And women used to undergo hystorectemies to treat their hysteria (ostensibly conversion disorder, or creating physical manifestations of disorders by a root cause of unexamined psychology?).
I believe now that I've been "converted" through the process of Lyme, that I had a naive point of view that illnesses were psychologically based. I do think there is some connection, but people are sick BECAUSE they are sick.
Did you know that bipolar disorder is treated with anti-epileptic medication. What does that tell you? Doesn't that suggest that there are undiagnosed seizures going on? So how different are the mechanics of epilepsy vs. bipolar disorder? We have no clue.
So I no longer believe that I have "control" of what happens to me through "The Secret" OR NLP OR EST or whatever.
If it were that simple, in this enlightened age, we would all be kings. Anything less is patronizing the masses.
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