Not CDC + , but looks like lyme as some are specific bands for lyme. What do you all think ? Looks like i will try to get a app on the wifes next visit to LLMD . Doc
Posted by feelfit (Member # 12770) on :
up
Posted by disturbedme (Member # 12346) on :
I'd say yes.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Yes, the +/- is the same as IND. It's a weak positive, which can indicate that you have been fighting this a long time.
So if the 83-93 were POSITIVE then that's a dead ringer.
"Many would say the " +/-" equivocal ["IND"] bands are not significant. The problem I have with that, is that there are "-" negative bands. The lab has no trouble calling some bands negative. So they must be seeing something when they put "+/-" at some bands.
The only thing that makes sense, is that there is a little bit of that antibody present in your serum. If the "+/-" equivocal is reported on the borrelia associated bands, it is usually significant, in my clinical experience. This is a strong clue that I am on the right track."
================
dr c of mo:
"The significant antibodies, in my opinion, are the 18, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 39, 58, 66 and 93."
The bands: (not sure why band 34 is not discussed here. Go to the above link and read all of the responses to the original posting. There is info there on bands 34 and 41)
30: Possibly a variant of outer surface protein A.
41: Flagella or tail. This is how Borrelia burgdorferi moves around, by moving the flagella. Many bacteria have flagella. This is the most common borreliosis antibody.
----------------- 83: This is the DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi. It is the same thing as the 93, based upon the medical literature. But laboratories vary in assigning significance to the 83 versus the 93.
93: The DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi.
Hope this helps!! Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I'd say yes. My LLMD told me that IgG band 31 indicates you've had it a while.
Posted by doc (Member # 14471) on :
tkx L too, ya read that several times as we went through this with my wife 3 months ago. thanks tho. Doc
Posted by Geneal (Member # 10375) on :
Well I concur with the Lymenet experts here.
My husband didn't start feeling bad for about 6-7 months after I had been diagnosed.
Then he thought it was testosterone.
I had an Igenex WB done on him and suprise, suprise.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posted by timaca (Member # 6911) on :
Igenex offers a confirmation if you test positive on band 30 or 31...to make sure it isn't a viral infection.
Did you get that test too?
I honestly think it may not be lyme based on your results. Sorry, I don't think you have enough positive bands on your IgG. A prominent LLMD does not count the IND bands...and with band 30 being positive...well you could have a viral infection instead.
Best, Timaca
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
It's the IgM that indicates chronic LYME infection, not the IgG as most drs think. [not LLMD's however]
Posted by timaca (Member # 6911) on :
Lymetoo~ I spoke with a prominent LLMD (who you would know) and he doesn't put much weight into the IgMs if someone has been ill for some time. He looks more at C6 peptide and IgG western blot for lyme.
Since lyme tests aren't that good, and viral infections (and other things like low B12) can cause similar symptoms, it is REALLY important to screen for everything before jumping to a diagnosis. Otherwise, you end up treating the wrong thing.
He has only 1 positive band on the IgM. Granted, it is a lyme specific band, but there is no way in the world I would say "he has lyme" based on one band.
Get tested for eveything you can think of, including B12, celiac, viruses and lyme (which he has been tested for). See what looks most likely and treat that.
The lyme doesn't look most likely to me. I would look elsewhere first. Maybe repeat the lyme tests at Stonybrook lab for further info. Run viral labs at Focus. Test for B12 and celiac at the local lab, and then make a decision.
Best, Timaca
Posted by doc (Member # 14471) on :
just wonder y 3/4s of your post push virus virus virus to everyone. is this a problom u have run into with many posters ?
Posted by doc (Member # 14471) on :
My LLMD is 1 of the best . Ill wait for his input and go from there . tkx for all the input , Doc
[ 10. April 2008, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: doc ]
Posted by Geneal (Member # 10375) on :
Just my humble two cents.
I only had IgM band 23 on my Quest WB.
Was diagnosed with Lyme by a local duck and not a LLMD.
My LLMD seconded the diagnosis adding in babesia and bartonella.
Did fantastic on doxy for first 4 months after getting past a 45 day herx.
Had been tested for viral infections at the same time my Quest WB was run.
Into treatment about 8 months before LLMD ran another viral panel.
EB and CMV with very high titers.
I did 6 months of valcyte.
At the end my LLMD asked if I had felt better.
Honestly.....not really.
He believes that EB and CMV are co-infections triggered by Lyme that depresses the immune system.
Mind you, I had 55 out of 75 symptoms from a Lyme symptom list prior to testing.
The local duck tested me for everything.
So....I think it is reasonable to treat viral infections as co-infections.
I find it unlikely in my case that I contracted EB and CMV 8 months into treatment.
However, this is just my opinion. Others may not have had Lyme and just viral infections.
My last CMV and EB were admittedly much lower than 8 months ago.
However, I still feel joint pain, brain fog, etc.
I think if you are symptomatic and have that WB then let your LLMD diagnose you.
He/she may treat viral infections as part of your overall treatment protocol.
Like mine did.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posted by timaca (Member # 6911) on :
Hi doc~
What Geneal says is good advice....
I think both lyme and viruses suppress the immune system, allowing other pathogens to grow. Thus we end up with a bunch of things that are making us ill.
The reason I am "pushing" the viruses, is that there is no way to tell the difference via symptoms if one has a viral infection or a lyme infection. The symptoms for the two infections are the same. Unfortunately, I find that people on this board can sometimes jump at a lyme diagnosis...when it may not be an appropriate diagnosis.
What I don't want to see happen is someone jumping at a lyme diagnosis. (Or jumping at any diagnosis for that matter....be it lyme or viral or B12 etc).
Get thoroughly checked out. Go with what looks most likely for your treatment.
Good luck Timaca
Posted by timaca (Member # 6911) on :
Geneal~
Valtrex is more effective agains EBV than valcyte is. If your titers to EBV are still significantly elevated, it may be worth a trial of valtrex.
A friend of mine just went to Stanford, and that is what the doctor has recommended for her.
Her HHV-6 titer did drop on the valcyte (she was on it 9 months). Her EBV titer was still elevated.
Best, Timaca
Posted by adamm (Member # 11910) on :
Looks like you have lyme
Posted by Geneal (Member # 10375) on :
Dear Timaca,
I hope to never take another viral med again.
I hated the weekly, then bi-weekly, then monthly blood work.
I am a ninny about needles though.
It was also fun with two small children bumping me and moving me
While the nurse was sticking in the needle.
Thanks for the advice though.
I hope when I really kick the Lyme, my immune system will step in
And kick the other stuff back into latency.
Glad that I tried it though.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posted by doc (Member # 14471) on :
thanks all, Im sure my LLMD will cover all the bases & we will go from there . be a while before i can get in tho as he is very busy.
will let u all no how it goes, Doc
Posted by Raymond (Member # 13980) on :
timaca,
On your EBV titre IgM positive or IgGtitres positive? I believe the difference is that 89-90% of people have had EBV and it only is active if your IgM tires are elevated.
Now this being said you would think the same applies for lyme, however; Melissa Kaplan who replaced M. Goss indicates this is not always the case for lyme and that IgM = Current IgG could equal exposure past infection or current infection
Posted by timaca (Member # 6911) on :
Raymond, my IgG titers for EBV went from 1:320 to 1:5120 in two different draws. 1:320 may indicate active infection, for it to jump so high between draws is quite suspicious for active infection. My IgM is negative.
Best, Timaca
Posted by Raymond (Member # 13980) on :
With people saying a +/- is a positive sign or a negative sign and there has been no agreement as to this, my question is if Igenex say it's specificity is 96% and sensativity is 67-70% couldn't that mean ita lso misses 30-33% of an actual reading so those +/- could be a +?
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