I am curious has anyone gotten well NOT using a cyst buster like Flagyl?
Thanks in advance for your opinions.
Posted by micul (Member # 6314) on :
It is possible to feel much better without using Cyst busters, but you are only avoiding the inevitable because the cysts will turn into the active form as soon as abx is stopped, and each cyst can give birth to many keets.
The best way is to hit them from all directions at the same time so that they have no where to run and hide. Flagyl/Tini can be pulsed 4 or 5 days on, then 10 days off to give yourself some recoop time. Days On time can be increased as the cyst load comes down and Treatment is better tolerated.
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
I think Buhner's thought it that you get rid of the motile 'ketes, the immune system should be able to take care of the new ones. Not sure though. I think there are several folks who were on here who never used a cyst buster (California Lyme may have been one of those).
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
imo, entirely possible
Posted by ByronSBell 2007 (Member # 11496) on :
If you want to kill all the ants in an ant pile do you just kill the adults? Or do you kill the eggs too?
Common Sense....
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
I never used Flagyl or Tindamax but have been off and on plaquenil in the past years.
Not sure if plaquenil "counts" as a cyst buster?
I just asked my LLMD if he planned on doing any further cyst busting with me (since I'm now in remission) and he said "no".
Like everything with TBD's, no cookie cutter answers. Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
I wondered about Californialyme, I don't think she used one either.
I've been reading about cysts...according to what I am reading cysts for 1-24 hours after abx are introduced that is why lyme testing can also be negative.
My lyme tests are never negative it seems to very motile and active in my blood...3 years in a row I have had a positive WB. I keep thinking if it were in cyst form, I would start testing negative. But I am not sure.
I tend to also believe you can get well without Flagyl, although I also know many have a higher success rate using it.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
NOPE....!
Byron got it right!
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
The studies indicate that it's unlikely. The issue is simple. Without using medications or a therapy aimed at killing the bacterium at all growth stages, the infection will evade some or all of the therapy.
Posted by bunnyfluff (Member # 14117) on :
So what are your thoughts on Samento? Can this bust the cysts?
My Dr says Cumanda does~ there are Rife frequencys imprinted, and the Lyme "explode".
I had a terrible reaction to it.
I have know 2 ppl that used ony Rife and herbs. They are "better", but I do not know how long they were sick to begin with.
Bunny
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
its simply nonsense saying that you cannot get well if you do not use a cyst buster.
you may have a better chance of getting well with one depending on your circumstances, but making a blanket statement that w/o one you will stay sick is not accurate.
plaquenil is a good option as it has some mild cyst action and is not nearly as toxic as flagyl, cowden also covers cyst if i am correct.
id say if you are not getting well, then of course, look into other routes such as cyst drugs if you are not already taking them.
best of health.
derek
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I am wondering if LLMDs always used cyst busters or if years ago people got better without them while just on antibiotics?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Maybe someone can find the technical info, but I'm pretty sure they've only known about the cysts for the past 8-10 yrs.
Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
Well - I know Dr. Burrascano said before they were aware of co-infections they just treated and treated and treated lyme and people got well. Meaning the immune system did kill the co-infections. One LLMD I see agrees w/Burrascano...he says "bring down the lyme load and your immune system will take care of the co-infections" - does that mean cysts too?
I would assume they didn't know about cysts at this point either.
I mean do all Bb (all strains) just automatically go into cyst form when exposed to abx. It would almost make sense to start w/Flagyl like my son did in that case.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Lymetoo - I saw those articles - they were why I ended up asking this question. And on youtube they supposedly show Bb going into cyst form, yet they look nothing like the cysts at Lyme info, so makes me wonder if the you tube videos are real or fakes.
But...
I know this has been discussed - What about Grapefruit seed extract? Here is an article from pubmed:
The susceptibility of mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to tinidazole (TZ) was examined. The minimal bactericidal concentration (MBC) of TZ against the mobile spirochetes was >128 microg/ml at 37 degrees C in micro-oxic atmosphere when incubated for 14 days. TZ significantly reduced the conversion of mobile spirochetes to cystic forms during incubation. The MBC for older (10-months-old) cysts at 37 degrees C in a micro-oxic atmosphere was >0.5 microg/ml, but >0.125 microg/ml for young (1-day-old) cysts. Acridine orange staining, dark-field microscopy and transmission electron microscopy revealed that, when the concentration of TZ was > or = MBC, the contents of the cysts were partly degraded, core structures did not develop inside the young cysts, and the amount of RNA in these cysts decreased significantly. When cysts were exposed to TZ, both the spirochetal structures and core structures inside the cysts dissolved, and the production of blebs was significantly reduced. These observations may be valuable in the treatment of resistant infections caused by B. burgdorferi, and suggest that a combination of TZ and a macrolide antibiotic could eradicate both cystic and mobile forms of B. burgdorferi.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
so how long can you stay on flagyl without a break? why can't you take it continuously? is it because of the nerve damage?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
GSE may work, I don't know. Tinidazole is a good choice. I took that for awhile.
Randi.. yes, the possibility of nerve damage. Not sure how long you can stay on it. I took it for long periods of time.
Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
Lymetoo.... Do you know - if you have nerve problems (neuropathy) as I have...should people that experience nerve pain even take Flagyl?
My LLMD was well aware of my neuropathy but once suggested it. I said no because I didn't thing I should chance it.
Any info on this..???? I know in the Hope to Heal conf notes Burrascano says 2 weeks of Flagyl minimum.
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