i'm confused about something. a lot of people have been diagnosed with lyme and most with fibro.
someone said lyme is a disease and fibro is a symptom.
that about right?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
You got it. Lyme causes fibromyalgia, if you ask me.
Lyme is a disease and FM is a syndrome. ( with no known cause.. )
Posted by dmc (Member # 5102) on :
Tis the same with multiple sclerosis....Lyme is the cause for me. MS is a syndrome...a collection of symptoms...demylination of nerve sheaths is one of them. Ahh, MS.
There is a cause.
Those who have a MS diagnosis whom I've told to get a PROPER lyme test have all been positive. Go figure. I don't even have a medical degree.
Must be the archaic "common sense" doctors lose in school.
Posted by daise (Member # 13622) on :
Hi!
Yes, fibro is a state of the body and is both a sign and a symptom. Seems a whole lot of fibro is caused by Lyme.
Yet a small accident, like a car accident, can cause fibro, as well. Is that due to a state of the body--a neurological state? Or is that due to more Lyme germs crossing the blood brain barrier at the time of the jolt of the accident?
PCP's seem to call any big muscle pain, fibro. Yet a rheumatologist diagnoses it according to specific criteria: you must have 11 out of 18 "tender points." I've never had that.
daise Posted by lymednva (Member # 9098) on :
I still have 11 tender points, if that really matters. The pain is caused by Lyme.
I agree with the others that Lyme is a disease that has a known cause. The others mentioned along with Lupus, ALS, are syndromes.
Syndromes are a list of symptoms with no known cause. Hmmm...doesn't take much thinking, even for a Lyme brain, to figure out that the cause could easily be Lyme.
And the tests that most doctors use to rule out Lyme are pretty much worthless.
Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
Well it is sort of like asking what is the difference between anxiety and Lyme. Anxiety is a symptom, with a root cause.
My LLMD defines fibro as a symptom - fibrous tissue pain. In that case many lymies have fibro. Fibro is not a disease in itself, only a symptom, like anxiety or any other Lyme symptom. Lyme is simply the cause of the symptom(s).
Take care.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by daise: Yet a small accident, like a car accident, can cause fibro, as well.
That's what they tell FM patients. Doesn't make sense, does it?!
Trauma of any sort can cause latent Lyme to become full-blown. Seems pretty simple to me.
Posted by Karol (Member # 15831) on :
Lymetoo this is interesting to me as all of my symptoms started after a fall at work, banged my head, hit the ground and all hell broke loose.
That was 5 years ago, July 2003 and I have had nothing but major problems since.
Posted by daise (Member # 13622) on :
TuTu,
Yes, trauma. I had a big wake-up call about that, getting very nearly all Lyme signs and symptoms all within the hour, including Bell's, after a bulls-eye rash nine years before with no Lyme symptoms.
I did have severe hypothyropidism. In my mind, it caused Lyme to come out of hiding.
Suddenly my neck went very badly out of alignment with my spine: did the trauma of this cause an opportunity for Lyme boogers to pour into my brain?
Did my neck go out of alignment because my neck and shoulder muscles atrophied?
So instead of fibro, I got Bell's? Maybe?
Enjoy the day.
daise Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
hi there
i agree with everyone else's comments...it's a SYNDROME; lyme is a disease
fyi, i have 18 of 18 tender, pressure points from fibro!!
i went to a talk NOT advertised as lyme meeting 5 yrs. ago, because talker was going to talk about fibro, cfs, irritable bowel/bladder syndrome, and MS ... guess what it was lyme.
THAT'S why i heard of IGENEX's western blot igm/igg and was the FIRST in my area to be tested for this, and with positives GALORE!
Posted by daise (Member # 13622) on :
Dearest BettyG,
18 out of 18.
daise Posted by NJLyme82 (Member # 15683) on :
The same concept may be applied to CFS as well.
When are these doctors going to open up their eyes?!
It's all Lyme disease.
How could this sort of medical ignorance exist in the year 2008 in what is suppsoed to be one of the most medically advanced nations in the world?
I just don't get it.
Posted by cantgiveupyet (Member # 8165) on :
i had a fall too :-( three days before all heck broke loose.
I feel down three steps, and landed smack on my back. Only visable sign of the fall was a bruised left big toe.
My neck got stiff, and symptoms were added one by one.
So much went on that summer of 05, so , so much. two rounds of bronchitis exactly two months apart, the fall, vacation in the poconos, stress.
and here i am.
i didnt have fibro symptoms in the beginning, dr said it was anxiety then tried to operate on my neck.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I think Fibromyalgia was invented to give people (mainly doctors) an excuse of something to say as to why many people were becoming ill.
Tender points as a diagnosis - what a f-ing joke...
Certain forces in the world do not want people to know they have a tick borne illness that may have escaped from a laboratory or any number of other man made bacteria, viruses, etc.
Since Lyme mimics many other illnesses, they say you have CFS, Fibro, it's all in your head, fill in the blank, etc.
Some people may also have mycoplasmas, viruses, fungi, other bacteria, as well, which can cause these illnesses. It may not be Lyme from a spirochete in every case.
I guess Fibro became a "real" illness when they found out they could give people some pharmaceutical medication for it (ie: get paid).... otherwise, it's all in our heads.
Try getting some disability for these illnesses... good luck!
Posted by daise (Member # 13622) on :
Hi NJ Lyme,
Ya wanna help us? Terrific! Go to near the top of this page and click "forum home." Then click "Activism" and check out that list to learn about our plight and the plight of those who are hurting and don't know what they have.
We need our Lyme bills to pass in the House and Senate. Read about it there. We're fighting evil in politics, insurance, big pharma money and state medical boards.
Thank you!
daise Posted by daise (Member # 13622) on :
Sparkle,
quote: You wrote:
Tender points as a diagnosis - what a f-ing joke...
It's no joke to those who suffer from the tender points of fbromyalgia. It is real. It is often caused by Lyme.
Do you realize that you are denying the severe pain of many on this board?
daise
Posted by gicuenitro (Member # 14704) on :
My mother died shortly over 3 years ago and the only thing they told her before she passed was that she had fybro. Now that I have Lyme I know the real truth. I really believe that cfs, fybro etc...are all just symptoms of lyme. Severity and length depends just like everything else.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
daise - I don't mean that the pain from tender points is a joke to experience.
I mean it's a stupid way to diagnose a serious, life changing illness. I have endured great pain for many years. I know it's not a joke.
There are accurate tests in the world to diagnose illnesses. They use them all the time to analyze Lyme in mice for scientific studies.
Why aren't these techniques being use to analyze Lyme in people?
7 minutes in an ignorant doctor's office lead to 10+ years of suffering for me...
That's the f-ing joke... the joke is on all of us. We are the ones being treated like animals.
Sorry if I seem sarcastic... it's just very irritating to me.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
-
Sparke7 - Yes, what a joke - and I heard the cynicism in the tender point issue. I heard the "cruel" joke that was intended.
I guess that, depending on what tone our internal reader has at the moment - and "triggers" from past criticism, that words often jump out with various tones.
you also wrote: " . . . I think Fibromyalgia was invented to give people (mainly doctors) an excuse of something to say as to why many people were becoming ill. . . ."
EXACTLY -
I might also caution that although thousands of lyme patients received that as the first of many erroneous dx (CFS usually followed), there are many other chronic stealth infections, liver clearance issues and toxic conditions that can cause FM, with or without lyme being a player.
[ just a few other infections to consider as contributing to pain: all the TBD - tick-borne infections; Cpn; HHV-6 and HHV-7; mycoplasma; hepatitis; HIV; etc., etc.]
Sleep disorders, too, can contribute to FM . . . however, (assuming sleep habits and hygiene are good) poor sleep can often still be a symptom and part of a toxic state from infection, chemical exposure or liver dysfunction - or adrenal fatigue.
-
[ 17. June 2008, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Yes. I think that "Fibro" is or can be something different than a disease from a tick.
They just group all these people together & call it a "waste basket diagnosis"...
I think that there are quite a few bugs out there making people ill. We really need better diagnostics to pin-point the issue.
-----
There was an interesting show on Coast to Coast AM last night about chemtrails.
Reporter Will Thomas stated that the chemtrails are mostly barium & aluminum. What happens is, is that when this material floats down to earth, it can bring down bacteria from the upper atmosphere that we don't have here.
There are also planning to "test" bio-weapons mixed in with the "chaff" but there has been no solid evidence of this so far other than what people on the inside (undisclosed sources) report.
There's also alot of info about this on http://www.carnicom.com/ Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
daise,
yes 18 of 18.
when i was in short stay unit of hospital before my 1st back pain injection...steroids!! but i didn't know i have lyme back then.
dr. was doing the pressure point test on all 18 areas, and i was YELLING OUT IN PAIN AND CRYING MY HEART OUT.... pain was incredible.
nurse came to my short stay room telling me; Betty, you're scaring the other patients here with your yelling/crying! how dare she!?
FINALLY SHE CLOSED THE DOOR THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED AT BEGINNING!
Posted by daise (Member # 13622) on :
I hear you Betty!
PAIN.
Ducks and other medical people: How would you like to have fibromyalgia?
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