Has anyone tried adding this, and what were your results?
Does it make our abx more effective, or can it actually cause a herx?
Currently in bart treatment and LLMD wants to add in a PPI. I am working my way back up to Levaquin slowly. Right now on Biaxin & Bactrim, pulsing flagyl. Will switch to a Rifampin combo shortly, then on to a Levaquin combo.
Any experience with PPIs?
Thanks, Cactus
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
I have no experience with taking proton pump inhibitors for bartonella. I took them with treatment for h. pylori.
I wanted to take them based on my research however my LLMD said that given my problems, the risk for C. Diff. would be too great.
I'm not a doctor but my understanding is that infections that are inside the cell are harder to kill. The proton pump inhibitor will keep the infection from leaving the cell. When the cell dies, the infection will die.
Some of the symptoms that I've had with proton pump inhibitors is that food would come out undigested due to the fact that they greatly reduce stomach acid. I'm guessing that's why there is a higher chance of C. Diff - less stomach acid.
Terry
Posted by teresambear (Member # 15061) on :
If you search prilosec on this site you will get some info. Best of Luck Teresa
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
PPI's are supposed to help the Levaquin work better. I took one when I took Levaquin. Dr. B recommends it in page 24 of his guidelines.
Posted by herxuk (Member # 15873) on :
I have been on 10 mg Omeprazole for 20 months. Too much
stomach acid destroys abx. I have had H Pylori thats why they
use a p pump makes abx more affective. You need some
stomach acid so I take a maintenance dose its a balancing act.
You get stronger herx though on a lower dose of abx.
But I have been OK. So yes will make abx more affective.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
I am going to go out on a limb and say that a PPI could be related to a EPI,(efflux pump inhibitor) a bug sump pump that purges out the abx so it cant kill it. Now we know why Dr B uses such high doses? overcome the sump pump? And another point, rem the ....zole drugs seem to be cyst busters? Guess what the chemical name of prilosec is? The ending is ....zole. Food for thought.
Posted by cactus (Member # 7347) on :
Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts on this. I remember seeing it in Dr B's guidelines, but didn't until you all reminded me
james, I noticed the "-zole" ending and wondered about that as well... Would be nice to think that there are some cysts meeting their doom.
Thanks again, all, and if anyone else has good/bad experiences, I'm up for hearing more.
Cactus
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
also notice how many antifungals end in azole
Posted by KauaiGoddess (Member # 11782) on :
Aloha,
so would 'everyone' in a non-medical opinion way say PPI are a good idea?
mahalos! Fawne
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
That was my point exactly, ZOLE....anti fungal, maybe a PPI is related, then you have this lyme Efflux pump, what if a PPI could be also acting as a EPI? That would hurt lyme.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
In other words, where right, but for the wrong reasons.????? just thinking, not saying I know any better. Just food for thought.
Posted by cactus (Member # 7347) on :
Fawne, it seems (from this thread & Dr B's guidelines) that the PPIs are most often used with Levaquin or maybe during bart treatment. (Aren't you on Lev now? I can't remember.)
If it makes abx more effective, then maybe they are helpful all around? TerryK's doc's concern about C. diff is a valid one, though. Guess we have to weigh the benefits.
I am not on Lev, but on Biaxin and Bactrim - this is day 2 with the PPI added. I do seem to be having a herx, but not sure if it would have happened w/out the PPI. Prior the PPI, I was feeling pretty well, but now am back on the herx train.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by KauaiGoddess: so would 'everyone' in a non-medical opinion way say PPI are a good idea?
No, I wouldn't and until someone proves it to me, I don't believe that it's an antifungal just because it ends in azole.
Taking acid reducers and even antacids can make the bile thicker, which creates stones.
I think I lost my GB to a PPI, not to abx. Now I have a possible stone in my bile duct. NOT a good thing.
I'd LOVE to get off my PPI, but I'm having severe acid for some reason.
PPI's can also make it more difficult to get rid of yeast... another problem of mine.
Fewer drugs is better in my book!
Posted by cactus (Member # 7347) on :
Thanks, Lymetoo. I was hoping to hear some drawbacks, too - and losing your GB is a huge one.
Mine is already gone, but can a PPI cause stones in the duct even without the GB?
That sounds so painful - I'm so sorry you're going through that now. Ouch.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
YES, YES, YES...Stones can form after the GB is out. OR.. one could have been left after surgery.
It's very painful... worse than GB pain. The scary part is that it can damage my pancreas and liver. Not happy about that at all!
I have to have another MRI next month. Going on vacation so I have to wait.
I'm better now and managing OK as long as I don't eat fats.
Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
I had horrible, horrible stomach issues w/LD..so bad I lost a lot of weight overnight.
I was put on Nexium...thank God..it saved my life, I could eat again..I was on Nexium (which is the BEST PPI) w/Biaxin and Amoxicillin, this combo kills H.pylori and Lyme.
It can cause certain vitamin deficiencies if taken long term, like me, I won't stop it, it helps me very much. So I am tested often for b12, which I do shots of and Vitamin D, which I also supplement.
Take care.
Posted by cactus (Member # 7347) on :
Lymetoo, thank you for telling me about this. It would be horrible to go through GB pain again, I hate that you have to do that. Hang in there and I hope it stays quiet while you're on vacation.
lymebytes, I didn't know it could cause vit deficiencies, so will keep an eye on that, too. I supplement both of those, too, because am already showing up deficient!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I also take B12 shots. Thank goodness!
Thanks for your concern, cactus. I think I'll manage OK as long as I behave myself. Pain is a great motivator!! Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Here's a link for those who are on PPIs long-term--it seems they inhibit the absorption of calcium and, therefore, can lead to hip fractures.
I know an elderly lady that developed osteoporosis after a number of years on Protonix, in spite of taking calcium and Vitamin D supplements.
The first article has a link to the original study also.
There are other sites that also say PPIs inhibit calcium absorption or at least certain forms of calcium.
Posted by cactus (Member # 7347) on :
Yikes, TF. Thanks for the heads up on calcium absorption. I already have concerns on that one, so adding in more risk factors is not good.
So now the question seems to be whether the PPIs increase our abx treatment sufficiently to justify using them while in bart treatment.
Thanks, everyone, for all your thoughts on this. Cactus
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by cactus: [QB] So now the question seems to be whether the PPIs increase our abx treatment sufficiently to justify using them while in bart treatment.
I personally would pass on that. It's like taking plaquenil with Biaxin .. I did fine without the plaquenil. The Biaxin still worked.
Posted by herxuk (Member # 15873) on :
cactus
As i said above you need some stomach acid. Iron and calcium need some to be absorbed. I had a stomach erosion
it killed the abx and friendly bacteria the kets loved that. They roard back. I have known of calcium issue for sometime
now. So it is not fresh news to me . I take the middle road.
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
I take it only b/c I am using levaquin to chase bart otherwise will not...
Posted by KauaiGoddess (Member # 11782) on :
Aloha,
catus- yes, I am currently on Levaquin (about 2 1/2 weeks in). thanks for your reply:)
Lymetoo- thanks for your reply as well...it's nice to hear both sides...sorry to hear about your GB and the stones...hope you enjoy your vacation!
At the moment I think I am going to keep on without it... I feel my body will tell me if it needs it...
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