I was reasearching ticks in Europe since I was stationed in Lansthul,Ge. back in 93-94. I know Stars and Stripes issues an alert to Soldiers in 2007.
There was also an issue with ticks in 1991. Makes me really wonder what it was like when I was there. Since the public and Soldiers were obviously NOT aware of it.
I came across two subspecies of Borelia : B. garinii and B. afzelii
Has anyone else encountered these strains or heard of them? I am curious? Also, how can they dectect certain strands of Borelia? Or is that even possible? Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Most U.S. labs do not test for any strain other than Bb (and they do that so poorly)
Over the years, I've seen frequent references to the two strains you mentioned.
There are over 300 strains of borrelia world wide (but not that many tests).
Of course, as long as birds fly and mice stow-a-way on ships - and people travel - it would seem to make sense that we take a wider look especially at those who are sick with classic borrelia symptoms but have negative Bb tests.
There could be a different strain at work. And, strains, themselves, can mutate. News lately of a borrelia "clone" is interesting.
INTERNATIONAL LYME AND ASSOCIATED DISEASES SOCIETY
The ILADS treatment plan is more thorough than treatment "advice" in some of the PubMed abstracts on this subject.
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[ 13. July 2008, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
Yes I have BB garini ( can not recall but ) garini that atacks the CNS is band 30 and mine
is 30+++ from IGENEX...I got it in GERMNANY..
nO wthat you said 1991-than I can recall my numbness and right knee pain and very high fever in 1990 and again in 1995 ...that change the corner for bad since than I got sicker and siker.
Posted by Marz (Member # 3446) on :
Very interesting Nora. I got mine hiking with German friends there.
I'm wondering if you think your symptoms are any different from people who get it here.
Did you have a rash and if so was it typical bullseye?
My LLMD was never concerned about the difference in strains. I did test positive on IgeneX WB.
I don't think I'm as sick as people here. My German friends don't think they have borellia, as they refer to it there. But they have symptoms similar to mine.
When I returned home in 1992 and saw an MD, he said I couldn't have it because they don't have lyme in Germany. I ran across an article about the American military getting lyme after I saw him. It was probably written in 1991 or early 1992.
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Marz -- Actually the European strains usually cause more severe neurological symptoms -- maybe that is why your German friends don't think they have Lyme or Borrelia if they are not extrememly sick.
There is definitely Lyme in the Black Forest in Germany -- the conspiracy theory says that some of the German researchers brought the European strains to Plum Island in New York for biowarfare testing.
Two labs in the U.S. test for the European strains.
Bea Seibert
Posted by swedish lyme sufferer (Member # 14579) on :
Yes, those strains are well known in Europe.
Afzeli was a Swedish guy who found this sub type borrelia in the 1800' - in Sweden. Yes, it has been with us in Europe for a long time....
There were many cases of severe Lyme in the black forest in Germany in the 1930'. Shardt protocol was invented back then! Yes, in the 1930'! So Bb is not new, but it is now epidemic.
Although Bb is the most common strain in Europe.
Posted by Nora DeBoard (Member # 15600) on :
You hit the nail on the head. I was ALL over in Europe. Volksmarches , mountain biking and ran the trails all over the place. ....rain or shine!!!
I had no rash but started out with shin pain then back pain. Then the body aches. When I got to Ft. Bragg my symptoms got worse for me muscular wise. Then they hit my axular skeleton then my neuro.
Then when I was rebit it started all over again and spriled out of control much worse than before. My symptoms were so much worse than they ever were the first time neurologically for some reason.
Especially while in my apartment. I KNOW without a doubt it's because of the mold! Whichh I did not know. I just knew something was making me sicker. I knew it in my gut.
Thanks for the links.
Posted by galehane (Member # 15437) on :
hi swedish lyme sufferer schardt protocol? You mean the guy from w�rzburg with the fluconazole?In case you do it was not - late 90ies and early 2000. Gale
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
Yes european strsains caue neirological problems...I had only headaches and migranes severe...but physically was fine...sometimes neck pain.
Here were I got reinfected...BOY my entire body and joint compelty destroed and feel like 100years old and in severe pain ...
I have them both and I know ...you could never think of lyme JUST migranes ( when it was neurolyme).I recall my shin pains only.... and a severe headache 1995.
BB in USA destroyes completly the joint.I could not raise my arms to wear a shirt...and could not lift a grossery bag.Forget about the knees...it was hard to bend and GET UP !!!!!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Once in the brain, Bb can also cause severe neurological problems - neuroborreliosis.
It can affect people differently.
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Posted by swedish lyme sufferer (Member # 14579) on :
hi Gale!
Yes I know Shardt, but his protocol was inventied in the 30'! My german LLMD told me that Shardt protocol is really from the 1930'! But it was not called "shardt's protocol" back then of course.
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