2) Take a capsule only twice per day instead of three times per day, as recommended.
Are any of you "cheating" in this manner?
Thanks Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
IF you cheat than you will definitly relaps and that will cost you more.
3 are still not enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I know. I would not cut back on dosage unless your body just can't tolerate it - and then would try to ramp up to suggested dose.
Cost, of course is a factor. It is extremely lower than the cost of the pharmaceuticals, but that is little comfort if the cost is still out of range.
I would suggest calling Hepapro and asking if they still have in place a program for low income patients. With proof of income, I was able to get a 25% discount when I took this a few years ago. It was still in place last year.
It might be that they can only offer a certain number of these discounts but ask about that. -
There are other brands that are less expensive. But not all are as good a quality. However, talk to your doctor about how you can design a program within your means that also has in place all the pieces of the puzzle.
As you may know artemesinin is not to be taking alone but, rather, in a formula (such as Hepapro's) and even then, as part of an overall protocol.
If you use another brand that is just art, you would need specific complements to that.
You might read what each of these authors says about treatment and that will help in your decision:
Singleton's "The Lyme Disease Solution"
Buhner's "Healing Lyme"
Zhang's " Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine"
(yeah, I know YOU have probably read all these already, but I wanted to have at least a basic list for those who are reading and new to this)
-
You may have already done that and still have chosen Hepapro's - talk to Dr. Z. himself then if you can only take this on a lower dose. He may have some helpful information for you, such as it may be better to cut out one day a week rather than lower the daily dose.
I don't know what the answer would be and I'd want to know what the doctors would say. Ask yours, and then, too, Dr. Z is very open to discussing any questions. He may know of other ways to approach this.
Do not try to decide on your own though. This is a serious situation and less than an effective treatment dose may be worse than no treatment at all.
Good luck in finding the answers and ways for this to work at full potential with the best quality that will fit your means. -
[ 04-19-2013, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Either do it right, or don't do it. There is no compromise with this protocol regarding appropriate dose.
When a treatment works, which this one does for the majority of patients who use it, pay the price. Those who don't stay the course and cut corners and do the treatment intermittently stay ill.
It has been whispered that higher dosing of HH, and Allicin, and Coptis are actually useful compared to what is currently noted in the book by Dr. Z, but contact him in that respect.
Posted by 8man12 (Member # 7664) on :
buy it from firstchineseherbs.com. it is about 15 dollars a pound...buy the 00 capsules start with three a day..it will last 6 months and it works..if you take 2 much your arms will tingle..etc..cut back..then work up...i take 5 a day...for 4 days then 2 off...lots of acidopholis...and you may want to take andriographis with it...i take it the same...those and HOME MADE colloidal silver gave me my life back... hope this helps...i challenge anyone to say it is not as good as the good docotors... oh forgot to tell you..i was bedfast 3 years...went from 190 to 138...had to be catherized..bag enamas..you name it..diagnosed ms...then ALS..given 6 months by 2 big teaching hospitals....that was 12 years ago... you can learn to make the silver on youtube..a 5th grader can do it....
Posted by Annxyz (Member # 9097) on :
Thanks 8man12 !! There are others here who used the First Chinese Art . I am not going to be ripped off by someone who promotes his product as superior ( $$$) for no real reason.
Others use Allergy Research Group . I am going to try the Artemesia extract that one of the members here had great luck with , and maybe enula.
There was a mamber here last year who used Zhang's art and felt the dose was too high and became extremely anxious about the results .
Herb Pharma and Horizon Herb have an art extract . I will try them .
Also , another member here got better using Seven Forest Formulas ( he and his wife regained health ) that are herbs .
If you do a search on " Seven Forest Formulas " you will find the posts that give info . He did not even use ABX and recovered . Worth a try .
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- First Chinese is an excellent resource.
Just do the math on dosage.
It is not the exact same product as the artmesinin. NOT the same thing.
They do carry a concentrate, but it is not listed as an extract, so the dosing may be different.
I have found Dr. Z's to be top quality. Yes, it is expensive. I do not believe it is a rip-off, but rather treating the growers, the gatherers, all those who work to get this from ground to capsule - well, they must be fairly compensated.
Attention to the soil conditions, etc. is also important to be sure of quality. There is much to consider when choosing products.
An extract is much more labor intensive to produce and requires more plant matter to produce.
And, this stuff is about $750. cheaper than one of the Rx that is often prescribed for one month's supply.
Other forms of artemesia, of course, can be used. Just know how to determine strength between different forms. And, some researchers say the less strong, raw herb has some qualities that an extract may not.
If the therapeutic dose is not achieved, AND if this is not accompanied with other anti-malaria support, artemesia (whatever form or dose) may not work.
Mono-therapy has been noted to fail in both malaria and babesia. Buhner's book, "Healing Lyme" is an excellent source to consult.
Olive leaf extract may be a good support in treat of babesia, BTW. But, as with all herbs, be sure the source is free of farm chemicals. -
[ 04-19-2013, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Jeni (Member # 16257) on :
How much is Dr. Zhang's protocol? I am considering it.
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I would read his book. The total price for the average patient is 2,000 dollars, start to finish if directions are followed.
Compared to the average patient on antibiotics, who spends about 10-20,000 for ongoing antibiotics, supplements, and doctors visits.
I've read the book. I can understand perfectly why he charges what he does, and it's simple. You get what you pay for. To ensure exact potency, exact purity, proper care, shipping, packaging, it's really not that expensive in contrast to other therapies.
This protocol has a 60% success rate based on available studies, with another 20% improving substantially but still having symptoms, and 20% not progressing much, if at all.
That's realistic, not a miracle cure.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
My LLMD has me taking 3 per day, 5 days per week. Have you taken pulsing into consideration? Art shouldn't be taken continually.
Posted by Nobody (Member # 16041) on :
I do 3 weeks on and one off, but I can't tolerate 3 of the Zhang in a day without the tingles in the extremities described here.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
I thought I had counterfeit art from swanson, but discovered, that it worked, but my iron was too far low to work.
Art at swanson is cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Whatever you do, please read the corresponding books first.
Olive leaf can be a help, but I am not certain of how, exactly, it would properly be incorporated into your treatment.
My guess is that the Buhner book would be good for you at this point - but first read Singleton's so you have the background knowledge. If you can, of course, the Schaller books about babesia, might offer you good information.
Topic: are there any alternative treatments for LD and co-infections that actually work?
electrolite - posted 22 July, 2008 -
[ 04-19-2013, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
Bump for those interested in alternatives
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Topic: RIFE Machine - Reference LINKS -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Whatever protocol one does, whether all Rx or all naturopathic - or a blend - this is probably the most important aspect of support to consider before even beginning:
OLIVE LEAF EXTRACT - LINKS -
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
I posted this because there are not too many stories of people as sick as 8man12 who got LOTS better .I have found similar stories across the net with people attributing their improvement to silver , and also to silver with herbs or anzymes like serra peptase and nattokinase .
I found quite a few, but one compelling story was at knowlyme . Google "colloidal silver knowlyme".
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
OLD THREAD ALERT
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- ann,
you say that "posted this because there are not too many stories of people as sick as 8man12 who got LOTS better ."
I could not read that thread but thanks for pointing that out. When I saw that you brough it up again "Bump for those interested in alternatives"
I Just wanted folks to have the best direct information above.
I still can't read the post you mentioned but it's good to consider silver, too, and look up past posts and find the safe ways to take it (the water it's made with is VERY important). -
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