About to start flagyl, and I've seen the stories about the side-effects...
I was just curious if it only hits the cyst form of lyme, or if it also kills the active form?
If more is needed, what are folks adding to get the now-opened cysts? Herbals preferred.
Thanks!
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
Hi Johnny, will you be pulsing or daily?
My LLMd uses Bicillin or a macrolide (Zith, Biaxin) in conjunction with the cyst-busters. or Bicillin, which goes after the motile forms of the spirochete.
Posted by johnnyb (Member # 7645) on :
Daily.
Starting slowly and going to ramp up.
Posted by migs (Member # 16496) on :
I have only been on it for about 4 days but I am taking 500mg twice a day (on top of 400mg Doxy, which I was already on for the past week).
Result in my head is great...suddenly I feel not so heavy and hungover all day.
Result in my body is horrible. My back and neck yesterday tightened right up and my right hand/wrist area feels like someone took a hammer to it.
Not sure what's happening to my body but I love having more energy.
Posted by maureen2174 (Member # 11471) on :
Johnny,
Does this mean that you stopped the zith/mepron? Are you going to only be taking flagyl without another abx for now?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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You mentioned herbals preferred. Totally understandable but I have so much more learning to do, especially about the cyst form and such things as GSE or allicin. I have two complementary books and neither directly addresses what to do about the cyst form.
I've never been on a abx protocol, but have read a bit. So, about whether flagyl is enough by itself, it appears not.
I have Singleton's book in front of me and, on p. 240, he states:
". . . if your Lyme-aware doctor believe that all three forms are likely present, then you may need a combination of three (or more) antibiotics to treat all three forms. . . ."
on p. 249-250, he explains further: " . . . metronidazole in combination with one or more of the above classes of drugs [abx] . . . the presence of cystic forms. . . ." end quotes. (Bolding is mine.)
He also states that tetracyclines (such as doxycycline, etc.) are not used with flagyl because they can make the latter ineffective (p. 250).
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He has other pages where he details the use of flagyl but to quote more would be pushing the boundaries of copyright and something might get lost in the translation. So, for safety, it's best to suggest getting the book.
This is not enough to go on, but the book offers far more of an explanation and cautions about side-effects.
This is not to be used in pregnancy.
Of course, ZERO alcohol while on flagyl, but that's pretty much out of the range anyway on lyme treatment. Cough syrups, mouthwashes, too, should be avoided as many contain alcohol.
I would caution against even using a few drops of an alcohol tincture.
And a note on this page in Singleton's book urging patients to find doctors: " . . . this type of antibiotic decision-making can be so complex, it is beyond the scope of this book . . . . "
--
As I understand it, when the cyst form is broken up it releases the spirochete forms, or morphs back into that.
These things can change shape at the flick of a switch so you have to treat all forms at the same time, or with some rotation, but flagyl is never a stand alone drug.
I think this is spelled out, however, in the ILADS Treatment Guidelines. www.ilads.org
I hope you can find a good doctor to help in all this.
On another note, Buhner states that starvation will cause the spirochete to go into cyst form. So, for everyone who thinks we can starve these things, they just curl up in the matter of one minute and wait (p. 54).
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This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, might hold many answers and suggestions for you:
- by Kenneth B. Singleton , MD; James A. Duke. Ph.D. (Foreword)
You can read more about it and see customer reviews at the link.
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[ 01. August 2008, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by kpa (Member # 12079) on :
I took a variety of abx with the direction to pulse Flagyl for 5 days per month at 500mg.
I could tolerate 250 for about 2 and 1/days then I got way too depressed.
I even skipped some months as my kids were sick and I couldn't face taking care of them with such a herx. My son, who was 13 could also go about 3 days at 250mg then start crying with discouragement. Our llmd said to stop when he was that bad.
Seems like each of us is so different that we have to follow drs protocol, then adjust as needes.
So we did what we could and improved a lot with just that.
Hope this is of some help...
Best Wishes, kpa
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
i took biaxin, flagyl, and levaquin at the same time.
it bout near killed me......
i had to stop all and am now starting over at much lower doses...
Posted by CherylSue (Member # 13077) on :
I started flagyl last week beginning with 1/8 pill for two days and ramping up to 1/4 pill the third day. Oh, my, the black depression was awful. I was sobbing off/on all day. I stopped.
I asked my LLMD for an Rx for Tindimax. I started 1/8 pill yesterday. Oh, boy, I could barely sleep last night for the anxiety and insomnia. I rested most of the day, and I'm finally come out of it.
I'm wondering if I just can't detox this stuff. I need a cyst buster, but plaquenil does the same thing. I get these emotional herxes, and once I stop the medicine, I'm ok in a few days. I have neurological Lyme, so maybe I'm more sensitive. I love Doxycyline, the happy drug. Cefuroxime axetel isn't bad either for the brain.
Does anyone else get these awful emotional herxes on Flagyl or Tinazidole?
CherylSue
Posted by migs (Member # 16496) on :
Keebler- or anyone else really
Regarding Doxy making flagyl ineffective...
I take 400mg Doxy with 1000mg Flagyl and I read this and called an LLMD to inquire if my treatment was sound. He told me that Flagyl also traps Tetracyclines in the body and makes it so taking 400mg Doxy is like taking 600mg Doxy.
His opinion was that I should stick with it.
Have you heard that as well? I can't find any literature on what he told me.
[ 06. August 2008, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: migs ]
Posted by johnnyb (Member # 7645) on :
Thanks everyone. Appreciate the responses. More research to do.