My daughter has just returned from San Francisco, after 1+ years of hard core antibiotics and herbal alternatives. I am new to Lymenet, so please bear with me.
Dr. S in San Francisco insists that Flagyl is used for the treatment of babesia, as well as lyme. Has anyone else cured their babesia this way?? She has the west coast strain.
Also, we need to find a LLMD in the Minneapolis area, and hopefully a pain mgmt dr for neuropathy. She is currrently taking Norco, Lyrica, but needs increasing doses just to get out of bed.
p.s. She has started artemisia (sp?) tincture. Herxes are bad, but trying to work up to recommended 15 drops 2 x day. (Dr. B in Santa Rosa's advice).
Has anyone had similar experiences? Did "art" help??
[ 21. August 2008, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: minneapolismom ]
Posted by Marcie (Member # 10070) on :
My doctor says that flagyl fights babesia too. I am not sure if I belevie him. I do not think
that flagyl will get rid of babesia on it's own. I would say mepron with zithro or biaxin is the
best choice of drug for babesia. Maybe you can ask the doc about using those combos instead and pulse the flagyl.
Babesia is a tough bug to get rid of.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Never heard of it curing babesia.
I took clindamycin/quinine ... over a period of two years. Off and on.
Then finished it off with zithromax and artemisinin. Only took about 2 months of that.
I'm so glad your daughter now knows what she is dealing with and has a great chance at getting WELL!!!
Posted by groovy2 (Member # 6304) on :
Hi M Mom
Flagyl dose not cure Babs but is part of the treatment-- it stirs up the bugs and makes them come out from hiding
I took Seroquel for about 2 months for sleep- It was Really Dinging me out- The generic form Dinged me out even worse so I stopped taking it -
You can trust what DR S says -Jay--
Posted by minneapolismom (Member # 16810) on :
up for more replies
Posted by minneapolismom (Member # 16810) on :
up
Posted by Brainspud (Member # 16428) on :
Minneapolismom, Have you looked up the local lyme support group? I have a friend in Northern MN and she says they are very active. Could help you locate a dr. Check out support group link on lyme net to start with (the link right under this flash discussion group).
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Your doctor may be onto some new phase of research. We are learning all the time (we hope).
You could ask the doctor's office to share with you articles about this as you simply want to understand the best you can the way all this is to work together.
You might also ask is this is part of the babesia treatment and if another drug - or combination of drugs will be used in the future.
Normally, from all we have read, mono-therapy is never enough for any of the tick-borne infections. The artemesia is the primary treatment - and, yes, flagyl is used for protozoa infections, so maybe art with flagyl is the idea here to address the babesia.
I'm not talking about all the complementary support such as that for liver or adrenals - or EFA's/Omega oil, but that at least two - or more - abx (or herbs, or a combination) are used specifically with attention to a particular infection.
Still, it'd be great to read more about that doctor's plan. Ask for the research - or if other LLMDs he knows are doing the same - with success.
And, as mentioned, that local support group may have many patients who have been on the same protocol.
It's also important to be something was not lost in translation. Treatment costs a fortune and each step is so important - so be sure to ask.
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[ 22. August 2008, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Not much to go on with this search. Not much new research under the search terms.
One abstract (but it regards dogs and a different strain of babesia):
J Vet Med Sci. 2007 May;69(5):563-8.
A Possible treatment strategy and clinical factors to estimate the treatment response in Bebesia gibsoni infection.
Suzuki K, Wakabayashi H, Takahashi M, Fukushima K, Yabuki A, Endo Y. Laboratory of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Faculty of Agriculture, Kagoshivma University, Korimoto, Kagoshima, Japan.
The effectiveness of combination therapy using clindamycin, metronidazole and doxycycline against canine babesiosis, (and)
and the usefulness of platelet count and the plasma C-reactive protein (CRP) concentration as an estimation factor for treatment, were evaluated in four dogs experimentally infected with Babesia gibsoni.
The combination therapy successfully eliminated B. gibsoni in peripheral blood in 3 of 4 dogs, however the remaining dog showed obvious uncontrolled relapse after a temporary recovery.
In addition, it was shown that CRP levels decreased in an inverse relationship to the recovery of packed cell volume and therefore CRP levels could be used as an optional clinical marker to estimate the response to treatment.
PMID: 17551236
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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adding artemisinin to the search:
PubMed Search:
flagyl, artemisinin - one:
Med Trop (Mars). 2006 Aug;66(4):324-8.
[Therapeutic alternatives in case of failure of first-line treatment of intestinal helminthiasis in adults]
[Article in French]
Rey P, Debonne JM.
Service des maladies digestives, HIA Legouest, Metz, France. [email protected]
Excerpts:
Development of antiparasite medications over the last 15 years has greatly reduced the number of treatment failures for intestinal helminthiasis.
. . .
Metronidazole can be effective for fascioliasis.
Artemisinine derivatives are useful for schistosomiasis.
Combined therapies are necessary for refractory ankylostomiasis.
PMID: 16999037
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Be sure to see both NEWBIE threads at the top of the medical forum.
====== ======
Find your local support group for help in finding a doctor, etc.
Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD, Yale Zhang
you can access his web site through www.hepapro.com or try www.sinomedresearch.org and use "clinic" and then "clinic" for the passwords or call Hepapro.
My LLMD is having me take flagyl along with artemisinin as a combo therapy (prevents resistance) for Babesia.
Did mepron and zith / biaxin for 7 months or so before that, and if I even missed a day, symptoms came screaming back.
This may be a worthwhile therapy. As good as the mepron / zith combo is supposed to be, I see a LOT of folks here relapsing on that combo, and maybe its time for something different.
I have a west coast strain too (duncani).
Posted by skigal (Member # 7443) on :
Old post..anyone having any luck with the flagyl/tindamax & a macrolide in addition to mepron/art?
TIA
Posted by Annelet (Member # 13503) on :
What dose of Art is being used by Dr S with the Flagyl?
Posted by kimmie (Member # 25547) on :
My thoughts...The first time I took tindamax, (newer version of flagyl), I had EXCESSIVE sweating for a week. I never had sweating before! I looked into both flagyl and tindamax as a treatment for babesia...they are both antiprotazoans and babesia is a protazoan infection. Makes sense to me that it does treat it.
Also, a lyme researcher I spoke with suggested that flagyl/tindamax would treat babesia. Could this mean no more mepron? I hope,
Posted by INEBG (Member # 27690) on :
I have a Lyme friend who sees Dr. S in San Francisco. It took 18 months, but she does seem to be rid of the babesia and is now treating Lyme. He used different combinations of medications, and flagyl was part of that mix. She also, at varying times, took mepron, biaxin, azithromycin, and artemisinin.
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
Flagyl and Tindamax both have antiprotozoal qualities. I know I used to feel so much better when I was on Tindamax, and I think this is the reason why. I was really upset when my Dr took me off. Since I've been off of it, my symptoms have gotten worse. I was on 2/day and wanted to go up to 3/day.
I'm going to start seeing another Dr soon, so I'll try again w/him.